Next Step: Receiver/Amp or Integrated?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Do you guys think the 97dB SNR of the XLS1002 will actually have hiss noise and the 103dB SNR of the XLS1502 will not have hiss ?

I owned the XLS2500 back when I had the B&W 802D2, Salon2, and Phil3. Even the XLS2500 had hiss, but so do Amps I heard from Emotiva, Classe, NAD, Rotel, Acurus, etc.

I doubt the little hiss noise from the XLS1002, XLS2502, or all those amps will actually adversely affect the sound quality.

 

[PENG]

Do you guys think the 97dB SNR of the XLS1002 will actually have hiss noise and the 103dB SNR of the XLS1502 will not have hiss ?

I owned the XLS2500 back when I had the B&W 802D2 and Salon2. Even the XLS2500 had hiss, but so do Amps I heard from Emotiva, Classe, NAD, Rotel, Acurus, etc.

I doubt the little hiss noise from the XLS1002, XLS2502, or all those amps will actually adversely affect the sound quality.

Not really, but if the high input sensitivity (0.775V) is selected it would be down to 91 dB A-weighted. Then it may become an issue depending on the speakers.

 

[Andrein]

Do you guys think the 97dB SNR of the XLS1002 will actually have hiss noise and the 103dB SNR of the XLS1502 will not have hiss ?

I owned the XLS2500 back when I had the B&W 802D2 and Salon2. Even the XLS2500 had hiss, but so do Amps I heard from Emotiva, Classe, NAD, Rotel, Acurus, etc.

I doubt the little hiss noise from the XLS1002, XLS2502, or all those amps will actually adversely affect the sound quality.

My emotiva xpa5 had horrible hiss. My current Anthem 525 is literally free of this issue. I think on paper both have similar snr.

 

[lovinthehd]

Hiss can be an issue with higher sensitivity speakers from what I've read (one particular guy I remember who had both a low noise floor and really high sensitivity speakers, like 110dB); didn't have any issues myself with speakers in 83-90dB range that I've used them with.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

My emotiva xpa5 had horrible hiss. My current Anthem 525 is literally free of this issue. I think on paper both have similar snr.

I don’t think SNR determines hiss noise either. Most of the amps I’ve heard that had hiss noise have pretty awesome SNR numbers.

Here’s an interesting observation: I have never heard hiss or hum noise from any AVR I’ve owned in 30 years, even the cheap $200 AVR!

But I’ve heard hiss and hum noise from quite a few $1500-$5000 Amps and Integrated Amps over the years.

I thought separates were supposed to be better than AVR?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hiss can be an issue with higher sensitivity speakers from what I've read (one particular guy I remember who had both a low noise floor and really high sensitivity speakers, like 110dB); didn't have any issues myself with speakers in 83-90dB range that I've used them with.

Perhaps speakers with 95-100dB/w/m may be more prone to hiss noise. However, I’ve heard plenty of hiss on speakers with 85dB/w/m sensitivity.

 

[Andrein]

So what is the reason for the hiss? Is something wrong with the amp, or speakers or combination of both? In my case replacement of ond amp with another helped.

 

[lovinthehd]

I've always wanted to know more about hiss. I searched the site on the subject and you sure get a wide variety of equipment mentioned...

In one thread it was suggested to carefully go thru the various connections/inputs/modes until you narrow it down to culprits, and in that case it seemed dsp related, which makes some sense except for it happening with some analog power amps so what is it in preamp/dsp or amp topology that does it?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Has anyone heard the hiss noise from any AVR by itself (no ext amp)?

I am curious.

 

[Soner]

Has anyone heard the hiss noise from any AVR by itself (no ext amp)?

I am curious.

I never have.

 

[KEW]

Has anyone heard the hiss noise from any AVR by itself (no ext amp)?

I am curious.

Yep!

 

[PENG]

Yep!

Electronic snakes..

 

[Soner]

So, after some reading and online windowshopping, I came across something.

I am thinking about holding off on buying new speakers for now and instead replacing my AVR (Yamaha RX-v779) with separates. They would be the following, and would cost me essentially the same money as I would spend for a new amp and a pair of speakers.

AV Preamp Processor

https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/intdhc803/integra-dhc-80.3-9.2-ch-thx-networking-a/v-preamp/processor/1.html

Multi-Channel Power Amp

https://emotiva.com/product/a-700/

Does this make sense? Do you think this would be a good idea. I would get more power, potentially more features, and would not have to worry about the low pre-out voltage.

Also, the following review of (what I think is essentially the same amp) paired it with the essentially the same AV preamp/processor. So, I can expect a good match without worry, I think.

https://hometheaterreview.com/emotiva-upa-700-seven-channel-amplifier-reviewed/

Additionally, this would allow me to sell my current AVR and put the money toward the future purchase of the speakers.

Is this a good idea?

Thanks and cheers!
Greg

 

[mtrot]

Well, you're looking at spending $1,300 that could go towards a nice set of floor standing speakers that would be an easy load for your current receiver. There are nice speakers out there that are easily driven by a mid size receiver.

Is your listening priority still two-channel audio, as you stated in your first post? Obviously the Integra processor and Emotiva amp will get you a bit more "oomph", but I'm not convinced they'll result in that much more satisfying music reproduction like a set of superior speakers will.

 

[Soner]

Well, you're looking at spending $1,300 that could go towards a nice set of floor standing speakers that would be an easy load for your current receiver. There are nice speakers out there that are easily driven by a mid size receiver.

The set of speakers I am fixed on are $800 for the pair (ELAC Uni-fi UF5). I've listened to them and they sound great. I don't think it would be an easy load for my receiver however, due to the 4ohm rating. I have read that my AVR does quite a poor job of pushing 4ohm speakers.

Is your listening priority still two-channel audio, as you stated in your first post?

Technically, yes. However, compatibility with my theater setup is as high a priority. With this pairing (Integra processor and Emotiva amp), I will be better suited for future upgrades. Additionally, after the responses here, I am somewhat concerned about the potential for hiss due to how close to the noise floor I would get with merely adding an amp to my current AVR.

Thank you again for your help as I continue to think through this and be indecisive.

Greg

 

[mtrot]

The set of speakers I am fixed on are $800 for the pair (ELAC Uni-fi UF5). I've listened to them and they sound great. I don't think it would be an easy load for my receiver however, due to the 4ohm rating. I have read that my AVR does quite a poor job of pushing 4ohm speakers.



Technically, yes. However, compatibility with my theater setup is as high a priority. With this pairing (Integra processor and Emotiva amp), I will be better suited for future upgrades. Additionally, after the responses here, I am somewhat concerned about the potential for hiss due to how close to the noise floor I would get with merely adding an amp to my current AVR.

Thank you again for your help as I continue to think through this and be indecisive.

Greg

Whew, yeah, I just looked at the specs on the UF5. If you're set on those, I would definitely not try to power them with your receiver! The processor and amp should work nicely with them.

 

[PENG]

The set of speakers I am fixed on are $800 for the pair (ELAC Uni-fi UF5). I've listened to them and they sound great. I don't think it would be an easy load for my receiver however, due to the 4ohm rating. I have read that my AVR does quite a poor job of pushing 4ohm speakers.

Facts:

UF5 specifications right from Elac:

Nominal impedance - 4 ohm
Sensitivity - 85 dB @2.83v/1m
Maximum power input - 140 Watts

Denon AVR-X3300W bench test results, right from Audioholics:

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements

Continuous Full Bandwidth:
2 CFP-BW *105 watts 8-ohms 0.1%
2 CFP-BW 154 watts 4-ohms 0.1%

Dynamic output:
1 Dynamic PWR 322 watts 4-ohms 1%
2 Dynamic PWR 277 watts 4-ohms 1%

Compared to the Emotiva A700's specs, not verified by bench tests:
110 watts 8-ohms <0.1%
210 watts 4-ohms <1%

Emotiva did not say the ratings were continuous, I am 100% certain that the 210 watts 4-ohm is not a continuous rating, but there is no need for it to be either.

Based on the above facts and figures, the Emotiva amp is not more powerful than the AVR for two channel use. You may argue that it is marginally or negligibly more powerful on paper but not practically speaking.

The Elac UF may not be easy to drive relatively speaking only. In practical sense, it is limited by it's maximum input rating of 140 watts. So it really doesn't matter, you can't give it more power anyway even if they don't play loud enough for you. If you ignore that fact, and I know you won't, you would risk damaging them.

So bottom line, this setup is fine in a smaller room and if you don't listen to loud music. For such speakers, there is no need to spend money on a separate system.

It is you money though, and you seem to believe what you like to believe, so I think you should go with something you believe is right for you.

 

[PENG]

Whew, yeah, I just looked at the specs on the UF5. If you're set on those, I would definitely not try to power them with your receiver! The processor and amp should work nicely with them.

Agree, not that receiver, but there are lots of receiver that can power those speakers that are limited to 140W maximum.

 

[Soner]

Denon AVR-X3300W bench test results, right from Audioholics:

http://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements

It is you money though, and you seem to believe what you like to believe, so I think you should go with something you believe is right for you.

I guess I'm not sure why the Denon AVR-X3300W specs are relevant. That's not the receiver I have.

What do you mean by the next comment (believe what I want to believe)?

 

[PENG]

I guess I'm not sure why the Denon AVR-X3300W specs are relevant. That's not the receiver I have.

What do you mean by the next comment (believe what I want to believe)?

I mentioned it in response to what you said in post#93:

this would allow me to sell my current AVR and put the money toward the future purchase of the speakers.

So if you plan on selling your AVR, then it won't be relevant right?

Also in your post#95:

I don't think it would be an easy load for my receiver however, due to the 4ohm rating. I have read that my AVR does quite a poor job of pushing 4ohm speakers.

and that the AVR-X3300W was mentioned in this thread by others, and the fact that Gene bench tested this unit so there are available facts and figures. So you can see that while your particular AVR may not do well with 4 ohm load, and we don't know that for sure, other AVRs can do it for 2 channel use. It also has good pre out voltage that can drive just about any power amps.

Regarding my other comment, please don't read into it too much. I simply got the impression that you somehow have been convinced the benefits of "separates" even for the entry level speakers. In my experience, sometimes it is better to go with your gut feeling so you won't (at least less likely to) regret after. I really meant good, but now realize it could have sounded a little sarcastic.