Why is Harman’s speaker line so disappointing lately?

[yepimonfire]

With all of the research they’ve done into what makes a good loudspeaker, I find myself wondering why the options afforded by them are so lackluster. Outside of the JBL Synthesis and pro lines, their consumer offerings leave much to be desired.

To be fair, the Arena and Studio series are fantastic given their price, but why no middle of the line speakers? The infinity primus seems to be where they left off making great midfi speakers, and of course, they discoed the series.

So what’s the deal?


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[shadyJ]

Looks to me like their JBL Studio series is their mid-fi stuff nowadays. Infinity is now just in-wall and car audio stuff. Revel doesn't do the cheap stuff. They don't have as many good options as they used to now that Infinity is basically dead, but they still have some solid offerings. Maybe they though why should they compete against themselves and relegated all of their mid-fi stuff to JBL.

 

[slipperybidness]

Looks to me like their JBL Studio series is their mid-fi stuff nowadays. Infinity is now just in-wall and car audio stuff. Revel doesn't do the cheap stuff. They don't have as many good options as they used to now that Infinity is basically dead, but they still have some solid offerings. Maybe they though why should they compete against themselves and relegated all of their mid-fi stuff to JBL.

Infinity still has the Reference line of home speakers
https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-R263-Black-3-way-Speakers/dp/B00K7DQ1AI

 

[TheWarrior]

Revel is not entirely comprised of their Salon2 products, they have plenty of others that compete with the likes of SVS Ultra, in price.

JBL offers big box products, but the real gem is their 7 series powered monitors.

But it doesn't seem like they are wanting to spend much effort in the highly saturated sub $1000 category.

 

[yepimonfire]

Infinity still has the Reference line of home speakers
https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-R263-Black-3-way-Speakers/dp/B00K7DQ1AI

Which perform terribly as far as accuracy goes when compared to the primus line. See the comparison

In the same price range, I can come up with about 5 lines from different brands that perform and measure far more accurate. Reviewers of the reference series often note the aggressive treble, and the studio and arena series often note “roughness” in the treble, which gets worse at higher volumes.

Considering the amount of research done and the kind of testing facilities harman has access to, I feel there is no excuse for this.

The market may be well saturated with sub $1000 speakers, but that market has substantially improved. $300-$500 can buy a damn good set of bookshelf speakers nowadays, and there are even exceptional speakers in the sub $300 range as well.

Harman has the ability to design fantastic speakers that could put those to shame, yet they fail to do so in their consumer offerings. The JBL 7 series and even 3 series are incredibly well designed, why couldn’t JBL design a slightly modified (ie change the waveguide for better performance in the mid and far field) and sell them for <$500 a pair?


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[TheWarrior]

Which perform terribly as far as accuracy goes when compared to the primus line. See the comparison

In the same price range, I can come up with about 5 lines from different brands that perform and measure far more accurate. Reviewers of the reference series often note the aggressive treble, and the studio and arena series often note “roughness” in the treble, which gets worse at higher volumes.

Considering the amount of research done and the kind of testing facilities harman has access to, I feel there is no excuse for this.

The market may be well saturated with sub $1000 speakers, but that market has substantially improved. $300-$500 can buy a damn good set of bookshelf speakers nowadays, and there are even exceptional speakers in the sub $300 range as well.

Harman has the ability to design fantastic speakers that could put those to shame, yet they fail to do so in their consumer offerings. The JBL 7 series and even 3 series are incredibly well designed, why couldn’t JBL design a slightly modified (ie change the waveguide for better performance in the mid and far field) and sell them for <$500 a pair?


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They do! The JBL LSR305 is an outstanding speaker that is about as limited in max output as anything else in it's price range($300/pair). It has trim adjustments so it is equally capable for near field monitoring as it is 12 feet away.

The waveguide's purpose is to control the directivity, transitioning between drivers. The result is a speaker that sounds the same, even way off axis.

The 7 series uses an actual compression driver and has, I think, 10 filters that can be input to control bass response for the type of installation.

 

[highfigh]

With all of the research they’ve done into what makes a good loudspeaker, I find myself wondering why the options afforded by them are so lackluster. Outside of the JBL Synthesis and pro lines, their consumer offerings leave much to be desired.

To be fair, the Arena and Studio series are fantastic given their price, but why no middle of the line speakers? The infinity primus seems to be where they left off making great midfi speakers, and of course, they discoed the series.

So what’s the deal?


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Why? Because they got rid of all of the people who knew how to design speakers.

 

[yepimonfire]

Why? Because they got rid of all of the people who knew how to design speakers.

What happened?


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[highfigh]

What happened?


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They "released", "let go", "fired", whatever you want to call it, but they have eliminated the people who made their speakers popular, famous, etc. They basically off-shored the Northridge, CA facility.

https://www.audiophilenirvana.com/audio-companies/goodbye-american-icon-jbl/

 

[Audiosaur]

FWIW, while at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest yesterday in Denver, I had a long listen in the Revel room to the F208-BE. it's the updated mid-line speaker with a beryllium tweeter that is now close to production. It was a great sound - could have listened all day. So I can't speculate on any broader purge of Harman expertise, I can testify that there is some blood still in the veins.

 

[TheWarrior]

They "released", "let go", "fired", whatever you want to call it, but they have eliminated the people who made their speakers popular, famous, etc. They basically off-shored the Northridge, CA facility.

https://www.audiophilenirvana.com/audio-companies/goodbye-american-icon-jbl/

Todd Welti and Sean Olive are very much still there! I can't remember the name, but a guy who was working under Sean for research was recently moved to a Samsung facility to head speaker production for one of the product lines. (I think it was Infinity)

They started transitioning consumer production to China in the early 2000's - Knocked down 1M sqft that was strictly production at Northridge. Now that facility is mostly research and is the home of JBL Pro.

Anyone who's heard the JBL M2 and it's 7/3 series derivatives knows JBL is alive and well. They're just evolving, the research conducted at that facility aided in their development of active solutions, which is why their top products are all active.

 

[yepimonfire]

Todd Welti and Sean Olive are very much still there! I can't remember the name, but a guy who was working under Sean for research was recently moved to a Samsung facility to head speaker production for one of the product lines. (I think it was Infinity)

They started transitioning consumer production to China in the early 2000's - Knocked down 1M sqft that was strictly production at Northridge. Now that facility is mostly research and is the home of JBL Pro.

Anyone who's heard the JBL M2 and it's 7/3 series derivatives knows JBL is alive and well. They're just evolving, the research conducted at that facility aided in their development of active solutions, which is why their top products are all active.

Of course JBL studio, PA, and Cinema offerings are great, just wish they’d do more in the consumer lines like they once did. Klipsch offers pro cinema speakers, high end heritage/palladium and reference lines (ie stuff like the rf 7III), the premier, and then the cheap “icon replacement” reference series. Every single one of these lines is designed exceptionally well and has engineering and research trickled down from their pro designs. You get a well engineered product regardless of whether you pay $150, or $3500. Why doesn’t harman do the same? They can design and sell an lsr305 for $199, but a pair of $300 JBL Studio 230s sound “harsh and rough”.

I have a hard time believing Harman wasn’t making money off their consumer lines such as the primus enough to continue investing in better consumer speakers. I just feel it’s shameful they would produce such lousy speakers for their consumer lines.


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[everettT]

Harmon has produced good value high performance consumer lines. As for how profitable ithey are or aren't, depends on a lot of factors. With the divisions under their belt, I'm guessing the have their markets covered. With Polk and Klipsch flooding the market with mostly midfi speakers maybe they figured why compete in a non profit segment.

 

[Hetfield]

They are owned by Samsung and I'm sure they have other plans than making a few hundred bucks on really well designed speakers.

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[yepimonfire]

Harmon has produced good value high performance consumer lines. As for how profitable ithey are or aren't, depends on a lot of factors. With the divisions under their belt, I'm guessing the have their markets covered. With Polk and Klipsch flooding the market with mostly midfi speakers maybe they figured why compete in a non profit segment.

Could add about 5 or more brands to those as well.


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[everettT]

Could add about 5 or more brands to those as well.


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Yes, which is my point to many lines. This is why companies like B&W sell the crap out of their 6 series. The name sake gives it a perceived step up from most bands entry or mid speakers, and allows for higher profit on a product that isn't all that good IMHO.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd bet Harman made more money from JBL with automotive products than they did on the home consumer speakers; it was the automotive market IIRC that Samsung was most interested in Harman for. I see they've just released the Invoke speaker to compete in the lifestyle market.

 

[MrBoat]

Because the entirety of the consumer loudspeaker market, which is predominantly men, has lost it's balls to the overbearing WAF.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Because the entirety of the consumer loudspeaker market, which is predominantly men, has lost it's balls to the overbearing WAF.

Yep. Demasculinization of America. Supposed to feel guilty about being a man or some stupid thing.

 

[yepimonfire]

I guess that explains the “slim tower” designs lol


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