Why is Harman’s speaker line so disappointing lately?

[shadyJ]

The decline of large speakers in the home isn't a gender issue really. The fact is, most people don't care about the sound quality of their systems, from either gender. Speakers of yesteryear were large because they absolutely had to be efficient, since amplifiers were not very powerful. Otherwise they would have had no bass whatsoever. Nowadays you can get 'some' bass from a goofy little sub that comes with a soundbar or something like that, and that is good enough for most people. Back in the day families had a den or something like that where they could read and listen to radio or watch TV, and a stereo system would have been a requisite piece of furniture for such a room, and was styled as such, but those days are mostly gone.

 

[MrBoat]

A friend of mine has a pair of JBL L250 floor standers that sound righteous as hell with music, no separate subs, in a relatively large room and his woman is always giving him a hard time about it and threatened to have them painted and textured to match the walls. Agreed, they are monsters and a bit odd looking but so is her exercise bike and the ugly little snorting dog that humps leg and drags it's bum across the carpet.

He's holding steady, so far. Mark one up for the man club.

 

[yepimonfire]

The decline of large speakers in the home isn't a gender issue really. The fact is, most people don't care about the sound quality of their systems, from either gender. Speakers of yesteryear were large because they absolutely had to be efficient, since amplifiers were not very powerful. Otherwise they would have had no bass whatsoever. Nowadays you can get 'some' bass from a goofy little sub that comes with a soundbar or something like that, and that is good enough for most people. Back in the day families had a den or something like that where they could read and listen to radio or watch TV, and a stereo system would have been a requisite piece of furniture for such a room, and was styled as such, but those days are mostly gone.

Obviously with good solid state amplification sensitivity isn’t that important. A big box can be used for higher efficiency, or lower extension, depending on the drivers ts parameters.

It’s actually quite impressive to me that one can achieve an extension of 45hz with a 5.25” woofer in a small box. Personally, I find the idea of small speakers stupid, you just cant get the kind of dynamic range as you can from big speakers, outside of horn loaded speakers.

A friend of mine has a pair of JBL L250 floor standers that sound righteous as hell with music, no separate subs, in a relatively large room and his woman is always giving him a hard time about it and threatened to have them painted and textured to match the walls. Agreed, they are monsters and a bit odd looking but so is her exercise bike and the ugly little snorting dog that humps leg and drags it's bum across the carpet.

He's holding steady, so far. Mark one up for the man club.

I’m lucky, my wife doesn’t care as long as they don’t block access to living areas. She appreciates the quality of sound as well.


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[MrBoat]

Obviously with good solid state amplification sensitivity isn’t that important. A big box can be used for higher efficiency, or lower extension, depending on the drivers ts parameters.

It’s actually quite impressive to me that one can achieve an extension of 45hz with a 5.25” woofer in a small box. Personally, I find the idea of small speakers stupid, you just cant get the kind of dynamic range as you can from big speakers, outside of horn loaded speakers.

I agree. I have proven this to myself over and over throughout the years. In any space I have lived in for the last 35 years, 12" woofer has been the minimum. I have gotten by with smaller speakers, but it just wasn't the same. That is my main, full on experience when I really want to critically listen in an immersive sense. There's exceptions to that rule, but this is just easier somehow, at least with 2 channel.

On the other hand, I do use smaller speakers for more selfish, near field use and for low level listening. There are times when that is the mood I am in. I could actually get by on that and be ok with it if I had to. They amuse me somehow and I like messing with them a lot. It's nice to have options on hand.

I’m lucky, my wife doesn’t care as long as they don’t block access to living areas. She appreciates the quality of sound as well.

I've been lucky with that too. Actually, it's been the women who have been most supportive. My ex wife was just here at my home for 7 weeks. Of all the places she could have gone in this house, she was often right out here in the middle of the music while reading, and I did catch her listening critically a few times. Others are after me to build some for them.

I had planned to move in with my gfriend at one point, and it was decided I would need a man cave. But she likes music too and my space would be kick ass and she'd likely be out there in it too more than her own. It's been that way every where I have lived. My space became the place to be. My ex used to takeover my recliner so much I had to buy her one too.

 

[Ponzio]

I think with most, not necessarily all women u need to proselytize and sell the product before trying to shove it down their throats.

My missus wasn’t exactly raised in a house where music and its delivery system was a priority, so initially I had my work cut out for me. Like anything in life that u want, u have to convince the other person that it was their idea and not yours. And in that spirit every time I wanted to pick-up some new hardware I brought her along to the B&M shops and let her demo the equipment (speakers, AVR’s, etc.) and asked her for a recommendation. Invariably she chose what I wanted because her own ears convinced her it was the right decision no matter how “pretty” the other models looked. I would purposely pick an inferior speaker or whatever and ask her which model I should buy. Without fail she chose the better speaker even though the cost and size wasn’t exactly what she had in mind when she walked in. She’s a very practical woman with golden ears ... thank god.

When I made my big jump in size/price in 2011 for a pair of high quality floor standers for our living room I first took her to World Wide Stereo (local hi-fi shop in Southeast PA) and convinced her that the PSB models were an option I was thinking about and at around $2K a good bargain. She agreed. But being the responsible husband I told her I should continue shopping to see if I could find something more affordable. I already knew I wanted to buy a pair of Focal Electra 1027Be’s but didn’t want to give her sticker shock initially, so I was biding my time. A couple of weeks later while out joy riding on our motorcycles we passed by Overture, the local Focal dealer in DE, and I recommended we go in to demo the speakers, with the proviso that they were way too expensive and I had no intention of buying any of their models. She figured, what the hell, let me amuse him. I purposely started at the lower end models until I got to the 10xxBe models by which time she was enthusiastically on-board and insisted we buy them right then and there. In fact she got a bit carried away when she heard the Utopia model and turned to me and half-seriously asked, “Can we afford these?” I had created a monster.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Of course JBL studio, PA, and Cinema offerings are great, just wish they’d do more in the consumer lines like they once did. Klipsch offers pro cinema speakers, high end heritage/palladium and reference lines (ie stuff like the rf 7III), the premier, and then the cheap “icon replacement” reference series. Every single one of these lines is designed exceptionally well and has engineering and research trickled down from their pro designs. You get a well engineered product regardless of whether you pay $150, or $3500. Why doesn’t harman do the same? They can design and sell an lsr305 for $199, but a pair of $300 JBL Studio 230s sound “harsh and rough”.

I have a hard time believing Harman wasn’t making money off their consumer lines such as the primus enough to continue investing in better consumer speakers. I just feel it’s shameful they would produce such lousy speakers for their consumer lines.


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I think the Revel line offers outstanding Sound Quality (SQ), but Harmon has to harmonize their lines somewhat. They make the majority (more than half as of today) of their income from the Automotive OEM division, and it's growing in sales and % of earnings every year. Consumer Audio is shrinking in importance, so resources are being limited in that area. Just the way it is.

 

[2channel lover]

With all of the research they’ve done into what makes a good loudspeaker, I find myself wondering why the options afforded by them are so lackluster. Outside of the JBL Synthesis and pro lines, their consumer offerings leave much to be desired.

To be fair, the Arena and Studio series are fantastic given their price, but why no middle of the line speakers? The infinity primus seems to be where they left off making great midfi speakers, and of course, they discoed the series.

So what’s the deal?


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The Revel line is probably a tier up I guess from Infinity, but within the Revel line the Performa3 line, particularly the F206 & F208...I would call these hifi, but the Concerta2 line might be more midfi.

FWIW, I spent half a day with the F208s and that's one helluva speaker imo. For a small space...two M106s ($2k a pr) and a quality sub would satisfy all but the most demanding audiophile for 2 channel.

 

[panteragstk]

I think the Revel line offers outstanding Sound Quality (SQ), but Harmon has to harmonize their lines somewhat. They make the majority (more than half as of today) of their income from the Automotive OEM division, and it's growing in sales and % of earnings every year. Consumer Audio is shrinking in importance, so resources are being limited in that area. Just the way it is.

I will say that most people listen to music in their car now as opposed to their house. I know most people I know are like this.

I will also say that my Durango has a JBL system in it and it's fantastic. First stereo in a car I've bought that I wouldn't change anything about.

 

[MrBoat]

I dated my ex 5 years before we got married and we didn't live together from the beginning. By the time we tied the knot, everything was pretty much known and I had purchased a large home stereo near the beginning of all that so she kind of grew into it.

Also, music was a large part of our social life. Live concerts, house parties, musicals such as "Heavy Metal" and "The Wall" came out shortly thereafter as well. Music remained much a part of our social focus until children took over, and even then, it occurred with some notable frequency.

Somewhere, something went wrong with her. When she was here last month, she told me she had a BOSE system! How does that happen? Where did I go wrong?! I didn't even know how to approach her about it. Then I thought, this is the Karmatic price to pay for trying to find the greener grass on the other side of the fence.

ETA: Just so happens I had just gotten the JBL LSR305s the last week she was here and played them a lot and strongly suggested this would be a good replacement for the Bose stuff she had. So, Harman still, with their limited offerings, scores a blow to the competition.

 

[Bucknekked]

A friend of mine has a pair of JBL L250 floor standers that sound righteous as hell with music, no separate subs, in a relatively large room and his woman is always giving him a hard time about it and threatened to have them painted and textured to match the walls.

I had to look those up. Wasn't familiar with the model or the look. From what I can read, those are some righteous speakers indeed. If the Chairman of the board for Harmon has them as his own home speakers, I'd say they must be pretty good. Encourage your friend to stand firm!

Somewhere, something went wrong with her. When she was here last month, she told me she had a BOSE system! How does that happen? Where did I go wrong?! I didn't even know how to approach her about it.
ETA: Just so happens I had just gotten the JBL LSR305s the last week she was here and played them a lot and strongly suggested this would be a good replacement for the Bose stuff she had. So, Harman still, with their limited offerings, scores a blow to the competition.

That made me smile. Your ex-wife buys Bose, and you ask yourself where you went wrong? Ha. That made me laugh. Apparently the JBL's came to your rescue and all may again be right with the world if she makes the replacement herself.

My wife is neutral on my audio obsession. She doesn't discourage it, she just doesn't understand why I am so interested.

 

[Mikado463]

The Revel line is probably a tier up I guess from Infinity, but within the Revel line the Performa3 line, particularly the F206 & F208...I would call these hifi, but the Concerta2 line might be more midfi.

FWIW, I spent half a day with the F208s and that's one helluva speaker imo. For a small space...two M106s ($2k a pr) and a quality sub would satisfy all but the most demanding audiophile for 2 channel.

totally agree, I too spent considerable hours listening to the F208 (best 5k speaker I have heard to date), in the end I settled on the Studio II's. I couldn't be happier.

 

[musichal]

Because the entirety of the consumer loudspeaker market, which is predominantly men, has lost it's balls to the overbearing WAF.

Only those who married over-bearing girlfriends, in the first place says this Khorn owner.

 

[Mikado463]

Only those who married over-bearing girlfriends, in the first place says this Khorn owner.

exactly, I crack up at the poor schmucks that have to 'cave' !

 

[lovinthehd]

Only those who married over-bearing girlfriends, in the first place says this Khorn owner.

That seems to be the preference of several guys I know....like being told what to do or something along those lines I suppose.

 

[MrBoat]

I had to look those up. Wasn't familiar with the model or the look. From what I can read, those are some righteous speakers indeed. If the Chairman of the board for Harmon has them as his own home speakers, I'd say they must be pretty good. Encourage your friend to stand firm!

They're pretty large. Not JBL's biggest by far, and they look kind of creepy with the grilles on with the cyclops tweeter peeking all the time. But I've learned to respect the look. Trademark JBL sound. Half of why I bought the S312's as an affordable piece of it.

That made me smile. Your ex-wife buys Bose, and you ask yourself where you went wrong? Ha. That made me laugh. Apparently the JBL's came to your rescue and all may again be right with the world if she makes the replacement herself.

My wife is neutral on my audio obsession. She doesn't discourage it, she just doesn't understand why I am so interested.

At least the ex noticed an apparent difference in sound quality. She'll be back next year. No telling what all I'll have going on in here by then. Actually, she woke up while I was assembling the crossovers for the Continuums and hung out for a spell to see what I was up to. Then a day or two later she heard them. I think the whole, homemade thing had her perplexed with that they actually sounded good and way better than Bose. Either that or she was pissed for all the ramen we had to eat while I was blowing my wad on speakers back in the day, and thinking, "you a**hole, you mean you could have built speakers and we had no groceries?"

Most wives probably are neutral, as long as it isn't the cornerstone to their décor. To be honest, I wouldn't want my rig out in the living room if I had to share my space. I'd be too polite and miss out a lot.

 

[MrBoat]

That seems to be the preference of several guys I know....like being told what to do or something along those lines I suppose.

I notice that too. Almost like some kind of mom thing or something. It makes me wonder what they must have done wrong to live in such a constant state of penance . My gfriend wouldn't dig me like that.

 

[MrBoat]

So then, if one was a Harman fan, what would they like for them to offer? I'd be hard pressed to see them stray away from what they have already done, at least with JBL. That would seem like a lot of work just to end up with a different looking version of what everyone else is doing. It seems like it would be kind of tough to be Harman in the current consumer audio market.

Modern music has kind of suffered the same kind of fate, it seems, with the best ideas already having been used up a couple decades ago.

 

[Bucknekked]

T
Most wives probably are neutral, as long as it isn't the cornerstone to their décor. To be honest, I wouldn't want my rig out in the living room if I had to share my space. I'd be too polite and miss out a lot.

Since I'm a ZZ Top fan (an you are too) when you mentioned not wanting your rig out in the livin' room, I have just the song for you.

ZZ TOP COVER YOUR RIG

The rigs may be different.......but you get the drift

 

[yepimonfire]

So then, if one was a Harman fan, what would they like for them to offer? I'd be hard pressed to see them stray away from what they have already done, at least with JBL. That would seem like a lot of work just to end up with a different looking version of what everyone else is doing. It seems like it would be kind of tough to be Harman in the current consumer audio market.

Modern music has kind of suffered the same kind of fate, it seems, with the best ideas already having been used up a couple decades ago.

Stuff like the infinity primus. Harman has the engineers and research to design excellent budget speakers, yet their current offerings are poor for their price range when compared to other models.

exactly, I crack up at the poor schmucks that have to 'cave' !

I’m surprised more spouses don’t appreciate the sound quality. My wife says I’ve ruined her ability to listen to built in tv speakers, when we went to visit my in laws, she actually made a comment about how she had forgotten how bad tv speakers sound when watching a movie with them, I was also very proud to hear her bash the bose wave stereo in their living room , I also spoiled her with a nice pair of sennheisers, so it is immediately obvious to her now when she hears inaccurate sound.

The only issue she has with audio stuff is money related. After purchasing an entirely new system, then upgrading the tv, and the front speakers a second time, she says I have to be done for awhile.


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[MrBoat]

Stuff like the infinity primus. Harman has the engineers and research to design excellent budget speakers, yet their current offerings are poor for their price range when compared to other models.

Well they do have the infinity primus. Personally, I think home audio is oversaturated. It's was possibly the biggest factor for me choosing DIY. I didn't want that kind of budget speaker and would have felt ridiculous paying double or quadruple for CNC'd glitz. To be honest, I found there to be too many choices to the point of flipping a coin. I was not inspired by anything in the current mass market.

I’m surprised more spouses don’t appreciate the sound quality. My wife says I’ve ruined her ability to listen to built in tv speakers, when we went to visit my in laws, she actually made a comment about how she had forgotten how bad tv speakers sound when watching a movie with them, I was also very proud to hear her bash the bose wave stereo in their living room , I also spoiled her with a nice pair of sennheisers, so it is immediately obvious to her now when she hears inaccurate sound.

The only issue she has with audio stuff is money related. After purchasing an entirely new system, then upgrading the tv, and the front speakers a second time, she says I have to be done for awhile.

I often take for granted how good my own stuff sounds. It's when someone else walks in and I get compliments that it reminds me that it does actually sound pretty good.

I think most women are a bit too busy in the brain compared to men to actually sit and critically listen. We can turn off the white noise of life better, I think.