Salk Silk Monitors vs Philharmonic Philharmonitor?

[speakerman39]

Just seen this over at AudioMart and they are absolutely beautiful! Just curious as to how the Salk Silk Monitors compare to the Philharmonic Philharmonitors. Both use RAAL tweeters and a 5.5" ScanSpeak Illuminator mid drivers. Here is a link for the Salk Silk Monitors:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649366670-salk-silk-monitors/


Here is a link for the Philharmonitors:


http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html


Just curious as to how these two compare. The Salk cabinets are stunning to say the least. That itself would explain some of the differences in costs. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[everettT]

Just seen this over at AudioMart and they are absolutely beautiful! Just curious as to how the Salk Silk Monitors compare to the Philharmonic Philharmonitors. Both use RAAL tweeters and a 5.5" ScanSpeak Illuminator mid drivers. Here is a link for the Salk Silk Monitors:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649366670-salk-silk-monitors/


Here is a link for the Philharmonitors:


http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html


Just curious as to how these two compare. The Salk cabinets are stunning to say the least. That itself would explain some of the differences in costs. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

The silks are really a different speaker. Aside from the cabinets, the silks have better drivers and per spec are more linear, not to mention the price difference.

 

[speakerman39]

The silks are really a different speaker. Aside from the cabinets, the silks have better drivers and per spec are more linear, not to mention the price difference.

So, they are using different drivers? I thought that they were the same. Did not know that. Those Rose cabinets are sweet! Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Good4it]

I have Phils and couldn't be happier with both the sound AND the price!

 

[Dennis Murphy]

The silks are really a different speaker. Aside from the cabinets, the silks have better drivers and per spec are more linear, not to mention the price difference.

Just seen this over at AudioMart and they are absolutely beautiful! Just curious as to how the Salk Silk Monitors compare to the Philharmonic Philharmonitors. Both use RAAL tweeters and a 5.5" ScanSpeak Illuminator mid drivers. Here is a link for the Salk Silk Monitors:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649366670-salk-silk-monitors/


Here is a link for the Philharmonitors:


http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html


Just curious as to how these two compare. The Salk cabinets are stunning to say the least. That itself would explain some of the differences in costs. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

Let me try and put the two speakers in a little better perspective, since I designed both of them. First, the two speakers do use a ScanSpeak 5.5" woofer, but the Silk features the more expensive Illuminator, while the Philharmonitor uses the Revelator driver (still expensive, but not as expensive). The Illuminator goes a little lower than the Revelator, at the expense of around 2 dB less sensitivity. Second, both tweeters are RAAL's, but the one in the Silk is the OEM 70-20, which is way more heavy duty and expensive than the 64-10 OEM in the Phil. While I think both are equally good in the upper treble, the 70-20 can be crossed much lower, which is an advantage in a 2-way. I wouldn't say the Silk is more linear than the Phil, but as mentioned, it does go lower. Then there's the matter of the cabinets. The Phil's that sell for $1,150 use prefabs with only two choices for finish.

 

[speakerman39]

Let me try and put the two speakers in a little better perspective, since I designed both of them. First, the two speakers do use a ScanSpeak 5.5" woofer, but the Silk features the more expensive Illuminator, while the Philharmonitor uses the Revelator driver (still expensive, but not as expensive). The Illuminator goes a little lower than the Revelator, at the expense of around 2 dB less sensitivity8. Second, both tweeters are RAAL's, but the one in the Silk is the OEM 70-20, which is way more heavy duty and expensive than the 64-10 OEM in the Phil. While I think both are equally good in the upper treble, the 70-20 can be crossed much lower, which is an advantage in a 2-way. I wouldn't say the Silk is more linear than the Phil, but as mentioned, it does go lower. Then there's the matter of the cabinets. The Phil's that sell for $1,150 use prefabs with only two choices for finish.

Thanks Dennis for the info. Those cabinets are very well done. One day I hope to hear a RAAL tweeter. Just for comparison purposes, how do you think the RAAL compares to the 1"Seas Millennium Dome tweeters and/or the 1" ScanSpeak Revelator Dome tweeters? I know I can't hear much above 16K. Just curious as to how well either the Seas/ScanSpeaks would do when compared to the RAAL? I am sure you have heard all of them and know more about them than about anyone I know. Just curious is all. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Thanks Dennis for the info. Those cabinets are very well done. One day I hope to hear a RAAL tweeter. Just for comparison purposes, how do you think the RAAL compares to the 1"Seas Millennium Dome tweeters and/or the 1" ScanSpeak Revelator Dome tweeters? I know I can't hear much above 16K. Just curious as to how well either the Seas/ScanSpeaks would do when compared to the RAAL? I am sure you have heard all of them and know more about them than about anyone I know. Just curious is all. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

The Millennium and Scans sound like excellent domes, and the RAAL sounds like an excellent ribbon. The difference is in the intensity of the mid treble, and the detail at the very top. The domes have more energy in the sssssssssssssss region, and the ribbon has a cleaner, more open sound at the above around 12 - 14 kHz. i think it's a combination of the ribbon's lower mass and perhaps the wave launch. I'm not exactly sure why they sound different, but they definitely do.

 

[speakerman39]

The Millennium and Scans sound like excellent domes, and the RAAL sounds like an excellent ribbon. The difference is in the intensity of the mid treble, and the detail at the very top. The domes have more energy in the sssssssssssssss region, and the ribbon has a cleaner, more open sound at the above around 12 - 14 kHz. i think it's a combination of the ribbon's lower mass and perhaps the wave launch. I'm not exactly sure why they sound different, but they definitely do.

Thanks Dennis that gives me a better idea. It sounds like the RAAL is stellar to say the least. One day soon I hope to hear one. Jim Salks cabinets are certainly a cut above as well. The mahogany finish with the red-rose dye in a satin lacquer finish is absolutely beautiful! Can the Philharmonitors be made with that type of custom finish with a slanted front port? I am guessing like $1450 a set? Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Thanks Dennis that gives me a better idea. It sounds like the RAAL is stellar to say the least. One day soon I hope to hear one. Jim Salks cabinets are certainly a cut above as well. The mahogany finish with the red-rose dye in a satin lacquer finish is absolutely beautiful! Can the Philharmonitors be made with that type of custom finish with a slanted front port? I am guessing like $1450 a set? Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

The phils can be made in any veneer and finish you wish. A front slotted port adds $100. Jim doesn't charge for dye, and mahogany is a standard finish. But frankly, When you start getting up in that price range, the BMR is a much better deal.

 

[speakerman39]

The phils can be made in any veneer and finish you wish. A front slotted port adds $100. Jim doesn't charge for dye, and mahogany is a standard finish. But frankly, When you start getting up in that price range, the BMR is a much better deal.

Yeah, that is a very good point Dennis. Have always been curious about the BMR's ever since getting back into this hobby 2-years or so ago. Really like the way you have the website set up now. Looks great! Keep up the good work. Have a good feeling you are going to be rather busy.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Swerd]

Just for comparison purposes, how do you think the RAAL compares to the 1"Seas Millennium Dome tweeters and/or the 1" ScanSpeak Revelator Dome tweeters? I know I can't hear much above 16K. Just curious as to how well either the Seas/ScanSpeaks would do when compared to the RAAL? I am sure you have heard all of them and know more about them than about anyone I know.

I think Dennis described the audible differences between better quality dome and ribbon tweeters rather well. I can only add my own experience.

I had Salk SongTowers with the ¾" Hiquophon silk dome tweeters for a long time, and about a year ago, replaced them with Salk Veracity ST speakers. The new VSTs have the RAAL OEM 70-20 in a 2-way design. Before buying the VSTs, I had heard various Salk speakers with ribbon tweeters for short times, but never had lived with one until this last year. I did have the opinion that the very good Hiquophon dome gave up little to ribbon tweets, and that I might have trouble distinguishing them from similar speakers with ribbons.

After a year, I can say I was wrong and Dennis is right. Although tweeter sound isn't the easiest difference to hear between the ST and the VST (the difference between the mid woofers is much more obvious), I can confidently say I can distinguish between the dome and the ribbon and that I do prefer the ribbon. This difference isn't always obvious – it depends on the type of music and the recording quality.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Although tweeter sound isn't the easiest difference to hear between the ST and the VST (the difference between the mid woofers is much more obvious), I can confidently say I can distinguish between the dome and the ribbon and that I do prefer the ribbon. This difference isn't always obvious – it depends on the type of music and the recording quality.

I have observed a similar effect with electrostatic speakers. (I've never heard the RAAL tweeter, so I can't comment on it.) The Salon2s have highs that wow me even after six years of ownership, but then I hear good electrostatics, like the Sound Labs or the latest Martin Logan Renaissance, and suddenly I'm contemplating mid-price new car money on speakers. There's something different about how a line/panel source sounds compared to a point source, and I like the line sources better. It's actually quite annoying... ;-)

 

[Ricardojoa]

I believe you are going to be very happy with the phil new monitor. The silk certainly uses more expensives drivers thus the higher price and with custom cabinets. At moderate volume the difference might be the difference of tones of the difference drivers than anything else. And of course asthetic , the cabinets looks different.

 

[Ricardojoa]

Raal tweeter on my 60-10 or 70-10 certainly sound more realistic than the dome tweetwer on my salk sound and ascend sierra 1.
But if you are going for the first time, you will get use to the way it sound.

 

[rojo]

I have observed a similar effect with electrostatic speakers. (I've never heard the RAAL tweeter, so I can't comment on it.) The Salon2s have highs that wow me even after six years of ownership, but then I hear good electrostatics, like the Sound Labs or the latest Martin Logan Renaissance, and suddenly I'm contemplating mid-price new car money on speakers. There's something different about how a line/panel source sounds compared to a point source, and I like the line sources better. It's actually quite annoying... ;-)

Hey Irv, if you're serious about this, I'd like to call your attention to a pair of line arrays for $1500. You'll also need a miniDSP or Behringer DCX2496 and an external amp for them, but it's altogether much cheaper than a new car anyway.

 

[speakerman39]

I think Dennis described the audible differences between better quality dome and ribbon tweeters rather well. I can only add my own experience.

I had Salk SongTowers with the ¾" Hiquophon silk dome tweeters for a long time, and about a year ago, replaced them with Salk Veracity ST speakers. The new VSTs have the RAAL OEM 70-20 in a 2-way design. Before buying the VSTs, I had heard various Salk speakers with ribbon tweeters for short times, but never had lived with one until this last year. I did have the opinion that the very good Hiquophon dome gave up little to ribbon tweets, and that I might have trouble distinguishing them from similar speakers with ribbons.

After a year, I can say I was wrong and Dennis is right. Although tweeter sound isn't the easiest difference to hear between the ST and the VST (the difference between the mid woofers is much more obvious), I can confidently say I can distinguish between the dome and the ribbon and that I do prefer the ribbon. This difference isn't always obvious – it depends on the type of music and the recording quality.

Thanks a bunch Richard once again. You confirm Dennis's preference for the RAAL. But, it also sounds like the 3/4" Hiquophon tweeter is another great dome tweeter. Was not aware that it was that good. Thanks for the info!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

I have observed a similar effect with electrostatic speakers. (I've never heard the RAAL tweeter, so I can't comment on it.) The Salon2s have highs that wow me even after six years of ownership, but then I hear good electrostatics, like the Sound Labs or the latest Martin Logan Renaissance, and suddenly I'm contemplating mid-price new car money on speakers. There's something different about how a line/panel source sounds compared to a point source, and I like the line sources better. It's actually quite annoying... ;-)

Irv, I have no idea what you are referring to when you mention line sources. Feel free to enlighten me here. I assume it has something to do w/electrostatics, no? Never heard an electrostatic speaker. Have read a lot here and there about the Magnapans. That is about it. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

Raal tweeter on my 60-10 or 70-10 certainly sound more realistic than the dome tweetwer on my salk sound and ascend sierra 1.
But if you are going for the first time, you will get use to the way it sound.

I am not buying either speaker just trying to discern some of the differences between the two. But, thank you for your insights. The RAAL tweeter has piqued my interest. Right now, however, I am perfectly fine with my Wharfies.


Cheers,

Phil

 

[Irvrobinson]

Hey Irv, if you're serious about this, I'd like to call your attention to a pair of line arrays for $1500. You'll also need a miniDSP or Behringer DCX2496 and an external amp for them, but it's altogether much cheaper than a new car anyway.

Line arrays are interesting, but they're not the same as ribbons or electrostatic drivers. I thought about the Funk Audio line array for a bit, but I'd really have to hear one.

http://www.funkaudio.ca/store/p7/Funk_Audio_Active_Line_Array_Pair.html

 

[Swerd]

I have observed a similar effect with electrostatic speakers. (I've never heard the RAAL tweeter, so I can't comment on it.) The Salon2s have highs that wow me even after six years of ownership, but then I hear good electrostatics, like the Sound Labs or the latest Martin Logan Renaissance, and suddenly I'm contemplating mid-price new car money on speakers. There's something different about how a line/panel source sounds compared to a point source, and I like the line sources better. It's actually quite annoying... ;-)

Those large electrostatic speakers can sound impressive, but I've always been bothered by their bipolar sound (Or is it dipolar? I never remember which term to use.) Above the ~300 Hz crossover frequency, those Martin Logans send out sound in equal and opposite directions. The difficulty in finding good speaker positions and listening position is enough to drive me crazy. And in those few cases where I've seen electrostats in someone's home, they completely dominate the room, no mater what their size is.

The Revel Salon2 is not a small speaker, but as a monopole design, I think they can more easily be positioned in a room.