Salk Silk Monitors vs Philharmonic Philharmonitor?

Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Irv, I have no idea what you are referring to when you mention line sources. Feel free to enlighten me here. I assume it has something to do w/electrostatics, no? Never heard an electrostatic speaker. Have read a lot here and there about the Magnapans. That is about it. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil
There's a complicated subject, and I'm not a speaker designer by any means.

Basically, dome tweeters are point sources, meaning that the sound pressure waves emanate from a unidirectional dome that is small enough it can be considered a point. Hence the name, a point source. There are several kinds of drivers, like ribbons, planar magnetics, leafs, electrostatics, and (I think) AMTs, that radiate sound along the length of a driver. With the RAAL ribbon it's several inches of length, with full-range electrostatics it's several feet of length. The radiation properties of these line source drivers have much different room interaction effects than point sources, which is one reason why they sound different.

There are several different kinds of line source drivers, and their radiation looks like a cylinder or some fraction of it. Most drivers that have full cylinder radiation have the rear 180 degrees out of phase with the front (like electrostatics), because the same two-dimensional driver surface is radiating in both directions which further makes them sound different. My sense is that a good line source with a back wave can be charismatic, and I seem to fall for the effect a lot. I also fell for it with the Quad ESL-63, but that speaker doesn't have much in the way of bass. The old Infinity Reference things were planar line sources with cone woofers were another example.

Line source speakers that are open back tend to dominate a room, since they need to be several feet from the back wall. Most are also not suitable for HT systems playing action movies, though I know someone who uses Martin Logan hybrids for his HT system, and thinks anything with a dome tweeter is dumb.

Then there's line arrays, which are a long column of point source drivers, like the Funk Audio thing referenced earlier. They radiate as front-only cylinders (the cabinet catches the back wave). I've never heard one before, but they have a cult following too. Some people are really attracted by the effects of a tall wave front.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
There's a complicated subject, and I'm not a speaker designer by any means.

Basically, dome tweeters are point sources, meaning that the sound pressure waves emanate from a unidirectional dome that is small enough it can be considered a point. Hence the name, a point source. There are several kinds of drivers, like ribbons, planar magnetics, leafs, electrostatics, and (I think) AMTs, that radiate sound along the length of a driver. With the RAAL ribbon it's several inches of length, with full-range electrostatics it's several feet of length. The radiation properties of these line source drivers have much different room interaction effects than point sources, which is one reason why they sound different.

There are several different kinds of line source drivers, and their radiation looks like a cylinder or some fraction of it. Most drivers that have full cylinder radiation have the rear 180 degrees out of phase with the front (like electrostatics), because the same two-dimensional driver surface is radiating in both directions which further makes them sound different. My sense is that a good line source with a back wave can be charismatic, and I seem to fall for the effect a lot. I also fell for it with the Quad ESL-63, but that speaker doesn't have much in the way of bass. The old Infinity Reference things were planar line sources with cone woofers were another example.

Line source speakers that are open back tend to dominate a room, since they need to be several feet from the back wall. Most are also not suitable for HT systems playing action movies, though I know someone who uses Martin Logan hybrids for his HT system, and thinks anything with a dome tweeter is dumb.

Then there's line arrays, which are a long column of point source drivers, like the Funk Audio thing referenced earlier. They radiate as front-only cylinders (the cabinet catches the back wave). I've never heard one before, but they have a cult following too. Some people are really attracted by the effects of a tall wave front.
Thanks a lot Irv. This certainly gives me a better understanding of what you were referring to earlier. It actually sounds fascinating, but also a bit complicated. Will get around to doing some reading up on this. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Most are also not suitable for HT systems playing action movies, though I know someone who uses Martin Logan hybrids for his HT system, and thinks anything with a dome tweeter is dumb.
What aspect of electrostatic speakers causes them not to be so good at HT?
Are "large dynamics" not so strong?
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
What aspect of electrostatic speakers causes them not to be so good at HT?
Are "large dynamics" not so strong?
Electrostatics often have limited excursion before distortion sets in, but the person I know with them in an HT system claims the hybrid configuration (cone woofers) solves that problem, at least in his models.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Well, I see that the RAAL tweeter is a step above from anything I have ever heard. So, hopefully sometime in the very near future I can hear one. Interestingly, the 3/4" Hiquophon seems to be another stellar performer. That being said, wonder how it would compare to the likes of the 1" Millennium/Revelator tweeters?

I am also interested in the Diamond tweeters. I know B&W uses them in the 800 series of speakers. I am sure there are others. That being said, has anyone here ever directly compared say a Diamond tweeter to a RAAL and /or a Millenium/Revelator. If so, care to share initial impressions/thoughts? Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil
 
Irvrobinson

Irvrobinson

Audioholic Spartan
Well, I see that the RAAL tweeter is a step above from anything I have ever heard. So, hopefully sometime in the very near future I can hear one. Interestingly, the 3/4" Hiquophon seems to be another stellar performer. That being said, wonder how it would compare to the likes of the 1" Millennium/Revelator tweeters?

I am also interested in the Diamond tweeters. I know B&W uses them in the 800 series of speakers. I am sure there are others. That being said, has anyone here ever directly compared say a Diamond tweeter to a RAAL and /or a Millenium/Revelator. If so, care to share initial impressions/thoughts? Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil
I'm only aware of one person here who has owned the RAAL and B&W diamonds simultaneously, and that's ADTG. His conclusion, which he has posted several times, is that he likes his RBH speakers better overall.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
I'm only aware of one person here who has owned the RAAL and B&W diamonds simultaneously, and that's ADTG. His conclusion, which he has posted several times, is that he likes his RBH speakers better overall.
I see. Was not aware of this. Perhaps, he (ADTG) can offer some details. I not only want to hear a RAAL, but also the B&W Diamond Series of speakers. There is a B&W dealer about 90 or so miles away. Will see if they have the Diamond series in their demo room. Thanks Irv for the info!

Cheers,

Phil
 
N

noclue

Audioholic
How are the BMR 's for movies. I see that most talk about speakers with ribbon tweeters about music?
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
How are the BMR 's for movies. I see that most talk about speakers with ribbon tweeters about music?
If they work for music, then they will sound equally well with movies. I normally select my speakers based on music abilities and have never had an issue with any of them for movies.
 
Roen

Roen

Audioholic
Just seen this over at AudioMart and they are absolutely beautiful! Just curious as to how the Salk Silk Monitors compare to the Philharmonic Philharmonitors. Both use RAAL tweeters and a 5.5" ScanSpeak Illuminator mid drivers. Here is a link for the Salk Silk Monitors:

http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649366670-salk-silk-monitors/


Here is a link for the Philharmonitors:


http://philharmonicaudio.com/New Philharmonitor.html


Just curious as to how these two compare. The Salk cabinets are stunning to say the least. That itself would explain some of the differences in costs. Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil
No love for the Sierra-2?
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
No love for the Sierra-2?
Not quite sure what you are really asking, but the Sierra-2's do use a RAAL tweeter as well. As such, yes I hope to hear them in the very near future. They are certainly on my "to do" list. :):):)


Cheers,

Phil
 
Roen

Roen

Audioholic
I don't know of any other two way RAAL bookshelf speakers besides the two mentioned and the Sierra-2.

Not sure if OP was aware of the third option.
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well, I see that the RAAL tweeter is a step above from anything I have ever heard. So, hopefully sometime in the very near future I can hear one. Interestingly, the 3/4" Hiquophon seems to be another stellar performer. That being said, wonder how it would compare to the likes of the 1" Millennium/Revelator tweeters?

I am also interested in the Diamond tweeters. I know B&W uses them in the 800 series of speakers. I am sure there are others. That being said, has anyone here ever directly compared say a Diamond tweeter to a RAAL and /or a Millenium/Revelator. If so, care to share initial impressions/thoughts? Thanks!


Cheers,

Phil
Good to see you back Phil...I trust all is well now.

I've heard the B&W 805, 804, 803 D3...I liked them, but I've owned a pair of 800 series B&Ws for 20 yrs so probably predictable that I would....the Salks I have on order have RAAL ribbons...the Monitor Audio Gold 300 had a ribbon tweeter in it...not sure if it was a RAAL or not, but of all the speakers I demoed in my budget range, I like those the best. I'm expecting the Song3-A to be in that arena in terms of SQ....some people have told me the Song3-A is better...TBD....lol.
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Good to see you back Phil...I trust all is well now.

I've heard the B&W 805, 804, 803 D3...I liked them, but I've owned a pair of 800 series B&Ws for 20 yrs so probably predictable that I would....the Salks I have on order have RAAL ribbons...the Monitor Audio Gold 300 had a ribbon tweeter in it...not sure if it was a RAAL or not, but of all the speakers I demoed in my budget range, I like those the best. I'm expecting the Song3-A to be in that arena in terms of SQ....some people have told me the Song3-A is better...TBD....lol.
Thanks a bunch for the welcome back. Yes, I am finally over my sinus infection. Thank GOD for that one. It has been a real problem as of late. After several rounds of antibiotics the infection has subsided. Also, thanks for the info. One day hope to hear a RAAL tweeter. :):):)


Cheers,

Phil
 
N

noclue

Audioholic
Will i just ordered a 12 inch rhythmic sealed sub. so that when i get the BMR or Sierra 2 next bonus I will have the sub to go with is for a small room
 
N

noclue

Audioholic
Those Song3-A look very nice but afraid for a small room they would be over powering in a small room
 
speakerman39

speakerman39

Audioholic Overlord
Will i just ordered a 12 inch rhythmic sealed sub. so that when i get the BMR or Sierra 2 next bonus I will have the sub to go with is for a small room
Congrats on the Rythmik! You get the L12 or the F12? Either way, you will be fine. Lucky you! :):):)


Cheers,

Phil
 
N

noclue

Audioholic
And looks like i am going to have to turn the Denon x2400H back in. It is a very under powered receiver compared to the lower priced Yamaha RX 670, I like the sound of the Yamaha better to it seems looks like i will upgrade to a better Yamaha next year arc doesn't seem to work on this one.

Will have to figure out how to tune the sub in right with the 670
 
newsletter

  • RBHsound.com
  • BlueJeansCable.com
  • SVS Sound Subwoofers
  • Experience the Martin Logan Montis
Top