Upgrading Subwoofers

[lovinthehd]

I have a Denon with Audyssey MultEQ XT, so if that's sufficient it'll take some pressure off the project and my wallet. I have the basic tools necessary and even have at least 1 large clamp.

How about that driver that comes with the flat pack? I know nothing about it. If you're suggesting it i'm assuming it's high quality. Would a pair of 15's be overkill for me? Will they be as detailed as the 12's I have now? And yes, I like the idea of a single outboard amp to drive both speakers. That is another cost saver.

A little more info: I sit about 14 feet from the front stage in a 16' x 30' room with another room (10' x 12' - no door) that opens up to the right. Plus there's a hallway and vaulted ceilings.

Audyssey will get you rolling without external help just fine. I've done it. The UM-15s will stomp the SVS and probably at least give the ULS15 a run for the money depending what you do for amp/dsp. The larger the better generally, 12s are just bedroom subs

The UM-18 is a driver Mark Seaton uses in one of his subs, the UM-15 is a bit smaller but very well considered (and if you have the space I'd go UM-18 duals, still save a bunch over dual ULS15 and stomp 'em). If you use an amp like the Behringer iNuke DSP series and can deal with the fan noise (or an out of warranty mod) you wouldn't need a minidsp. I use Crown XLS amps and minidsp as I didn't want to deal with fan noise as I don't have a separate room or sound isolating rack nor wanted to mod and risk warranty issues. I'd go at least dual 15s in your size room, but 18s would be better.

I'd get the clamps, can be useful for many other projects, too...if you have any desire to do some woodworking that is. I got a killer deal on a full 30pc set a while back. A nice pebbly duratex finish is fairly easy. Using veneers or laminates is something I havent tried yet and will take some more care/time. I've not used mdf like the flatpack, I build my subs from ply; stained 3, duratexed 1 and 1 to go with the duratex. I think the finish may be your greatest hurdle....there is WAF involved?

 

[Pogre]

If I do this, I'm using clamps for sure. I know I have one and where I can get a couple more, so that won't be an issue. I'm hearing you on the 18's, but wow. Big. WAF isn't a huge factor, but I can't have a couple of big, ugly gargoyles in the front of the room.

While admittedly I could use a little more sub, I'm actually surprised by the advice to go so big. I'm going to take that advice and go with 15's, but the 1000's aren't doing a horrible job. I'm gonna be taking a big step up.

 

[lovinthehd]

If I do this, I'm using clamps for sure. I know I have one and where I can get a couple more, so that won't be an issue. I'm hearing you on the 18's, but wow. Big. WAF isn't a huge factor, but I can't have a couple of big, ugly gargoyles in the front of the room.

While admittedly I could use a little more sub, I'm actually surprised by the advice to go so big. I'm going to take that advice and go with 15's, but the 1000's aren't doing a horrible job. I'm gonna be taking a big step up.

One thing many guys wish after working their way up is just to have started with the biggest subs you can have. I've progressed up to 18s and now look to 24s someday Bwaahahahhah

Actually the difference in size between the 15 and 18 sealed boxes isn't as big as you think (believe the flatpack for the 18 is 4cuft vs the 15's 3cuft). Make grills/covers and they look more like one of my 18s:

And once you get into it, it's more like this

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes a big step up indeed. I saw you posting about your new subs somewhere earlier. I think you're in for a bigger surprise than you know. Probably bigger than stepping up to the SVS's. I may be in the minority but I'm gonna suggest against bedliner finish(sorry chris). IMO it's pretty low rent, and looks like it. although easy to do.


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[lovinthehd]

Yes a big step up indeed. I saw you posting about your new subs somewhere earlier. I think you're in for a bigger surprise than you know. Probably bigger than stepping up to the SVS's. I may be in the minority but I'm gonna suggest against bedliner finish(sorry chris). IMO it's pretty low rent, and looks like it. although easy to do.


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You'd be surprised how a little bit of water can smooth out a duratex finish.....and look great like subs delivered in such a finish. If you're looking more for furniture finish than sub performance I will just exit as I like sub performance much more than a finish

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Why not have both?


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[shadyJ]

If I do this, I'm using clamps for sure. I know I have one and where I can get a couple more, so that won't be an issue. I'm hearing you on the 18's, but wow. Big. WAF isn't a huge factor, but I can't have a couple of big, ugly gargoyles in the front of the room.

While admittedly I could use a little more sub, I'm actually surprised by the advice to go so big. I'm going to take that advice and go with 15's, but the 1000's aren't doing a horrible job. I'm gonna be taking a big step up.

Ultimax 18 flatpacks and amp would only be a bit more than the Ultimax 15s. A couple of these and this guy would do the trick. You still need all the little things like terminals, and a way to paint it, but it will have some pretty serious deep bass. It could be done for the cost of a couple ULS-15s, and will have a very significant advantage below 50 Hz.

 

[lovinthehd]

Ultimax 18 flatpacks and amp would only be a bit more than the Ultimax 15s. A couple of these and this guy would do the trick. You still need all the little things like terminals, and a way to paint it, but it will have some pretty serious deep bass. It could be done for the cost of a couple ULS-15s, and will have a very significant advantage below 50 Hz.

Can be done for the cost of a single ULS15.....

 

[shadyJ]

Can be done for the cost of a single ULS15.....

I think that is a bit optimistic. Two flat packs equals $800, an amp will be $400 at the very least. Tools, paint, primer, and all the other knick-knacks like stuffing, terminal cups, feet, cable, that will be at least a couple hundred more, especially if you want nice looking subs. The end price would be much closer to two. Its a lot of bang for the buck though.

 

[lovinthehd]

I think that is a bit optimistic. Two flat packs equals $800, an amp will be $400 at the very least. Tools, paint, primer, and all the other knick-knacks like stuffing, terminal cups, feet, cable, that will be at least a couple hundred more, especially if you want nice looking subs. The end price would be much closer to two. Its a lot of bang for the buck though.

Compare one flat pack at a time....then in multiples depending on...stuff.

ps I had to go look at the pricing on the ULS15, it's much better than I remembered....so yes it will cost more than one but far less than two. And the UM15 would bring the price for duals down, too. Finishing, stuffing, terminal, etc is not a couple of hundred, tho. You do a diy sub yet?

 

[MrBoat]

DIY is also a good path with learning to maintain, upgrade, or even repair your factory equipment as well.

I'd much rather DIY than always compromise with budget/factory considerations, even if I had to leave them without finish.

I've just built a set of mains, and a sub, and now I'm already looking at building a pair of these and a sub for my shop and I am not even completely finished with the current sub build. The inukes are portable. I could easily take the one amp to other room since it only weighs around 8lbs.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-4.html

Oh yeah. DIY 'is' addicting. One sign that it's leaning towards obsession is you will start doing things like keeping a tape measure at your computer for scale.

I have the inuke 3000dsp powering the ultimax 12" and this thing is badass. The inuke has a usb patch so that you can tune the entire op from your pc, which is where I play my music from anyway. It is a beautiful thing. Yes, there is fan noise, but I usually have a fan going in here all the time anyway.

 

[Pogre]

DIY is also a good path with learning to maintain, upgrade, or even repair your factory equipment as well.

I'd much rather DIY than always compromise with budget/factory considerations, even if I had to leave them without finish.

I've just built a set of mains, and a sub, and now I'm already looking at building a pair of these and a sub for my shop and I am not even completely finished with the current sub build. The inukes are portable. I could easily take the one amp to other room since it only weighs around 8lbs.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguide-speaker-kits/fusion-4.html

Oh yeah. DIY 'is' addicting. One sign that it's leaning towards obsession is you will start doing things like keeping a tape measure at your computer for scale.

I have the inuke 3000dsp powering the ultimax 12" and this thing is badass. The inuke has a usb patch so that you can tune the entire op from your pc, which is where I play my music from anyway. It is a beautiful thing. Yes, there is fan noise, but I usually have a fan going in here all the time anyway.

I remember your speakers. I wish I had your skills with wood. They looked beautiful.

I am gonna go diy this time. I can take my time and do it right. I'm not in a huge hurry because I do like my li'l SB1000's. I think I'm gonna have my eyes seriously opened with the 15's.

Will my bookshelf speakers be able to keep up? I don't want to have to go get towers next...

 

[lovinthehd]

What spl levels do you use? I don't think you'll be itching to change speakers just because of subs...

 

[shadyJ]

Compare one flat pack at a time....then in multiples depending on...stuff.

ps I had to go look at the pricing on the ULS15, it's much better than I remembered....so yes it will cost more than one but far less than two. And the UM15 would bring the price for duals down, too. Finishing, stuffing, terminal, etc is not a couple of hundred, tho. You do a diy sub yet?

Haven't built a subwoofer yet. It's something I would like to do someday, but I just have no need to do that, since I already have more than enough subwoofage. Besides, it's so much easier to just criticize other people's designs than to build my own!

 

[lovinthehd]

Haven't built a subwoofer yet. It's something I would like to do someday, but I just have no need to do that, since I already have more than enough subwoofage. Besides, it's so much easier to just criticize other people's designs than to build my own!

LOL I think I asked you that elsewhere now that I think about it. Just how much subwoofage have you been squirreling away there? Do you get to keep some of the reviewed stuff?! I've only got 10 at the moment, 5 diy. Oops 11, one in the van, one of those carpet boxed specials!

 

[shadyJ]

I don't keep anything I review, since obviously that would be an ethical problem. My own system is fine anyway. Four subs for the home theater, two for the PC desktop system. Ten subs is quite a collection: what are the models and build types?

 

[lovinthehd]

I didn't think of it that way....have you bought one you didn't want to send back?

I've got an Epik Empire plus 3 diy 18s (like the one pictured, sealed boxes with SI 18D2 drivers, still have two more drivers that eventually will become a dual opposed 18 and move the Epik out). Bedroom currently has a diy Infinity 1262 in a sealed box, one still to go when the workshop warms up, supplementing it with my old Klipsch RW12d for now. Have two Infinity PSW310s (got them for wireless feature on a great closeout price) that reside in 2ch setups in spare bedrooms and sometimes even get used outside (wireless!) when the weather warms up to supplement my deck speakers. Out in the workshop for now are an old Energy take 8" and an Infinity SSW10, the Klipsch will go there eventually. The van has a Kicker 10" in the generic carpet box. Think that's it...

It's like my bikes, I just keep all of 'em around Only 9 of those, tho.

 

[Pogre]

What spl levels do you use? I don't think you'll be itching to change speakers just because of subs...

I do like it loud. It's why I have tinnitus now. That and shooting guns and playing drums for several years. I'm a lot more careful now, but I like to hit 90+ here and there for a song or two... I've pushed my avr to -5 and it started to sound a little distorted. Now, that was only briefly and I NEVER listen at that level. Besides, I don't think my Denon X1200W liked it very much.

I guess I'm hitting enough spl. I just imagine the speakers disappearing behind those subs. I'm looking at building what seems to me like a couple of monsters. I know I have a big room, but wow. These are gonna pound.

 

[shadyJ]

I didn't think of it that way....have you bought one you didn't want to send back?

No, I haven't purchased any. I was very tempted to buy the ULS-15 mk2, but since I just don't need the additional subwoofage, I could not justify that expense.

 

[lovinthehd]

No, I haven't purchased any. I was very tempted to buy the ULS-15 mk2, but since I just don't need the additional subwoofage, I could not justify that expense.

What are yours?