Hsu Research VTF-2 mk5 Subwoofer Review

[gene]

The VTF-2 has been a part of Hsu Research’s VTF subwoofer line for 17 years and has developed considerably in that time through a number of iterations. Through every version, it has steadily grown and improved, and the newest VTF-2, the mk5, sports a front-firing 12” driver, a 350 watt BASH amplifier, and 3.9 cubic foot enclosure. Read our review of the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 to see what a modern day mid-range subwoofer from a top-tier subwoofer manufacturer can do.

This could very well be one of the best performing subs in its price class!

Read: Hsu Research VTF-2 mk5 Subwoofer Review

 

[mj30250]

Thanks for the review.

I'm wondering if you've had an opportunity to audition the Outlaw Ultra-X12. Its specs/design look very similar to this Hsu, expect the X12 is down-firing. For $50 less (when on sale) I'm wondering if the Outlaw would perform just as well.

 

[rojo]

Mmmmm, data. Outstanding review, @shadyJ ! I love to see thorough measurement data. Well done!

 

[3db]

This unit is taking direct aim at Rthymik's LV-12r with similar cabinet and driver size and equivalent amplification. Price is the same. This begs for a shoot out.

 

[FIqbal]

This unit is taking direct aim at Rthymik's LV-12r with similar cabinet and driver size and equivalent amplification. Price is the same. This begs for a shoot out.

I recommend adding SVS PB2000 to the shootout. Although SVS is little more expensive, but these three seem perfect for someone looking for an excellent sub at a decent price for small to medium room. All three should also be good for dual sub option for bassaholics that does not break the bank and more importantly the back.

 

[shadyJ]

The Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12 has been tested here. The PB2000 has been measured here, but I did manage to measure more deep bass output from the PC2000, and the PC and PB performance would be identical in room. The LV12r has never been measured, but my guess is that it would not quite hit the same CEA-2010 measurements. I used the FV12 before, functionally very similar to the LV12r, it was a powerful sub but not quite as powerful as the Outlaw LFM-1 EX I had, whereas the VTF2 mk5 is, for the most part. I would guess that the LVX12 would be more on par with the output capabilities of these subs. Another comparable sub in this range looks to be the EMPtek I-12/e.

 

[billy p]

Fwiw...the RBH I-12 was able to handle louder more demanding movie sequences in a direct comparison vs. the LV12R by a member over at AVS. The behavior exhibited by the LV12R was unusual as it tried to fill the same moderate sized room as the I-12 H2H. Musically it sounded fine apparently.... all the usual adjectives that pertain to Rythmik applied> tight and accurate but with movies not much. Subjectively he felt the I-12 was as good for music and the better overall value..iirc.

 

[shadyJ]

RBH has actually released CEA-2010 measurements for the I-12/e, they can be seen at around the 3:55 mark in this video. I would guess the I-12 would be just a tad down from that, from 40 Hz and above mostly.

 

[3db]

The Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12 has been tested here. The PB2000 has been measured here, but I did manage to measure more deep bass output from the PC2000, and the PC and PB performance would be identical in room. The LV12r has never been measured, but my guess is that it would not quite hit the same CEA-2010 measurements. I used the FV12 before, functionally very similar to the LV12r, it was a powerful sub but not quite as powerful as the Outlaw LFM-1 EX I had, whereas the VTF2 mk5 is, for the most part. I would guess that the LVX12 would be more on par with the output capabilities of these subs. Another comparable sub in this range looks to be the EMPtek I-12/e.

There's a review at HomeTheater Shack by JMAN to help reduce your guessing.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/67309-rythmik-lv12r-subwoofer-review.html

The rating below is from Rythmik;

At 20 Hz, our subs vary in their maximum output capability. The output at 20 Hz is shown relative to F12.

• F12: 0db (baseline)
• F8/FM8: -1.5db
• L12: -1db
• LV12R: +2.5db
• L22: + 4db
• LVX12: +4db
• E15HP: + 4db
• F15HP: +4.5db
• FVX15: +6.5db
• FV15HP: +9.5db
• F25: +8db

The FV12 is different enough from the LV12-R to invalidate your analysis. Just saying.

 

[nickboros]

I recommend adding SVS PB2000 to the shootout. Although SVS is little more expensive, but these three seem perfect for someone looking for an excellent sub at a decent price for small to medium room. All three should also be good for dual sub option for bassaholics that does not break the bank and more importantly the back.

I think that a fair comparison with SVS, Rythmik and HSU for a $500 ported sub would be the SVS PB1000, Rythmik LV12R and the HSU VTF-2 mk5. They are all within about $80 of each other if we ignore shipping cost. If we wanted to do a fair comparison with a SVS PB2000, then a shootout between the other two manufacturers would need to include the the Rythmik LVX12 and the HSU VTF 3 mk 5. These are again all within about $80 of each other if we ignore shipping.

My guess is that the output between the three is not that different in each price class. I think the standout of the three is the Rythmik though. If they do in fact have very similar output capabilities in the respective price classes, yet Rythmik has servo technology in theirs at that price, then that is a big added performance difference. However, Hsu just added port tuning capabilities in the $500 category being one strength that the others don't have. SVS is the odd man out in both comparisons though, since it doesn't have port tuning capabilities even in the $800 category and not really any performance feature that the other two are lacking. I guess the one strength that SVS does have is free shipping both ways and 45 day in home auditioning.

 

[shadyJ]

Neither JMAN's review nor Rythmik's product comparison at 20 Hz give us any indication as to the LV12r's full capabilities. Rythmik's data is so sparse as to be nearly useless, there is just no context there. In my experience of the FV12, it could dig deep frequencies very cleanly, but it did not have a huge amount of mid bass output, but it did well. Also it was very resistant to being overdriven. The LV12r is basically the same subwoofer; same driver, same amplifier minus a few features, same cabinet except the port is on the back.

 

[3db]

Neither JMAN's review nor Rythmik's product comparison at 20 Hz give us any indication as to the LV12r's full capabilities. Rythmik's data is so sparse as to be nearly useless, there is just no context there. In my experience of the FV12, it could dig deep frequencies very cleanly, but it did not have a huge amount of mid bass output, but it did well. Also it was very resistant to being overdriven. The LV12r is basically the same subwoofer; same driver, same amplifier minus a few features, same cabinet except the port is on the back.

You ignore information provided by both JMAN and Rthymik's and make invalid comparisons based on your previous experience with the FV12. I've seen enough subwoofer curves that subwoofer levels drop off significantly at their frequency extremes which in both ofthesof these subs is 20 Hz.

 

[shadyJ]

The only publicly available information that is useful about the LV12r is the FR posted on its product page. The 20 Hz number is meaningless, because A: these subs do not all have the same tuning point, and B: what is the distortion level at 20 Hz? how has compression effected the response? High drive levels will alter the -3 dB point. There is no context provided by Rythmik. Besides all of that, even if we had a complete picture of performance at one frequency, that is not nearly enough to compare the overall performance of different subwoofers. We need a lot more than one frequency.

 

[3db]

The only publicly available information that is useful about the LV12r is the FR posted on its product page. The 20 Hz number is meaningless, because A: these subs do not all have the same tuning point, and B: what is the distortion level at 20 Hz? how has compression effected the response? High drive levels will alter the -3 dB point. There is no context provided by Rythmik. Besides all of that, even if we had a complete picture of performance at one frequency, that is not nearly enough to compare the overall performance of different subwoofers. We need a lot more than one frequency.

Agreed that we need more information to draw a meaningful conclusion is. more than one frequency and more than similar products based on that non to accurate auditory memory. I find it rather strange that you are able to reach conclusions on Rthymik's with little or no evidence. Seriously dude, put some meaningful data behind your conclusions because as it stands now, your pulling conclusions out of thin air, something you do quite regularly.

 

[shadyJ]

Agreed that we need more information to draw a meaningful conclusion is. more than one frequency and more than similar products based on that non to accurate auditory memory. I find it rather strange that you are able to reach conclusions on Rthymik's with little or no evidence. Seriously dude, put some meaningful data behind your conclusions because as it stands now, your pulling conclusions out of thin air, something you do quite regularly.

All I can tell you is that when I blasted some drum'n'bass music and A/B'd the Rythmik vs Outlaw, the Outlaw could hit harder. This is not guessing or pulled out of thing air, this is just what I experienced when I ran both subs as hard as I could push them. Keep in mind this is music that has its fundamental around 50 Hz or so. The Outlaw simply had more headroom in that frequency range, but that is only anecdotal evidence and shouldn't be taken too seriously. That it can get louder is not surprising since it has a larger cabinet, a larger driver motor, a bit more amp power, and larger port volume, but of course it is more expensive; we are comparing a what was then $500 sub vs a $750 sub, and it is not a fair comparison, but it was what I had on hand. I didn't have the measurement equipment or understanding of these things that I do now.

I doubt there will ever be any meaningful data because Rythmik hasn't sent a review unit to any reviewer who does measurements since the FV15HP, and that was years ago. I would love to take a Rythmik sub out to measure someday, but I don't think that will ever happen. I will say that the FV12 could retain its composure better at the edge of its performance envelope than the Outlaw. If you push the Outlaw hard enough with deep frequency content, it will obscure detail, but that didn't happen with the Rythmik. Then again, I didn't push the Rythmik extremely hard with deep content, because it wasn't my subwoofer and I didn't want to risk damaging it. It was a very good sub and a steal for $500.

 

[3db]

All I can tell you is that when I blasted some drum'n'bass music and A/B'd the Rythmik vs Outlaw, the Outlaw could hit harder. This is not guessing or pulled out of thing air, this is just what I experienced when I ran both subs as hard as I could push them. Keep in mind this is music that has its fundamental around 50 Hz or so. The Outlaw simply had more headroom in that frequency range, but that is only anecdotal evidence and shouldn't be taken too seriously. That it can get louder is not surprising since it has a larger cabinet, a larger driver motor, a bit more amp power, and larger port volume, but of course it is more expensive; we are comparing a what was then $500 sub vs a $750 sub, and it is not a fair comparison, but it was what I had on hand. I didn't have the measurement equipment or understanding of these things that I do now.

I doubt there will ever be any meaningful data because Rythmik hasn't sent a review unit to any reviewer who does measurements since the FV15HP, and that was years ago. I would love to take a Rythmik sub out to measure someday, but I don't think that will ever happen. I will say that the FV12 could retain its composure better at the edge of its performance envelope than the Outlaw. If you push the Outlaw hard enough with deep frequency content, it will obscure detail, but that didn't happen with the Rythmik. Then again, I didn't push the Rythmik extremely hard with deep content, because it wasn't my subwoofer and I didn't want to risk damaging it. It was a very good sub and a steal for $500.

The Outlaw is a more powerful sub then the entry level LV12-R . I don't even know why you are going down that path. My comparison was with the HSU and the Rythmik, both similar at the same price point similar cabinet volumes, driver sizes, and amplifier. Lets stick to apple and apple comparisons without digressing down unrelated pathes using some meaningful data to perform a comparison rather than speculation.

 

[shadyJ]

The Outlaw is a more powerful sub then the entry level LV12-R . I don't even know why you are going down that path. My comparison was with the HSU and the Rythmik, both similar at the same price point similar cabinet volumes, driver sizes, and amplifier. Lets stick to apple and apple comparisons without digressing down unrelated pathes using some meaningful data to perform a comparison rather than speculation.

The reason why I bring the Outlaw up is because the VTF2 mk5 matches its performance in many metrics. The Outlaw does pull ahead in mid bass in the long term tests, at 60 Hz and above, but in short term tests, they are nearly the same across the board. The base specs between the VTF2 and LV12r may be the same, but that doesn't necessarily mean they, or any other two subs that share similar specs, will perform the same. Things that aren't seen can have a big effect on performance, like VC mass and motor geometry.

 

[mj30250]

Any thoughts on using a VTF-2 with a VTF-3 Mk 5?

I've already got the VTF-3, which is awesome, and obviously larger and more powerful. I've been toying with the idea of adding a second sub but another VTF-3 simply wouldn't fit anywhere reasonable in the room. That leaves me looking at smaller subs or just staying solo.

I'm thinking that I would put the smaller Hsu nearfield. My couch sits against a back wall and there is enough space just to the left of the couch for the VTF-2. The larger VTF-3 would stay in the front corner.

So would this even be worth doing? Would I be crippling the VTF-3 by asking it to play nice with a smaller sub? Maybe it would offer an improvement, but would it be a $600 improvement? How would such a set up sound for seating further out from the MLP? Perhaps I should just shut up and enjoy what I have...The room is around 2000ft^3, btw.

Thanks.

 

[shadyJ]

If you want more punch, it might be a nice addition. What you should really do is take a measurement of the frequency response at your listening position and see what it is like. If the addition of a near-field subwoofer can fill in a null, than I would say go for it. However, if it makes no improvement in the overall response, all it would do is give you a bit more headroom, the improvement would only be minor.

 

[snakeeyes]

I just ordered a pair of HSU VTF2 on sale. These will be for my living room system. 4700 cu ft. I have Rythmik subs in my theater and my bedroom system. Excited to see how the HSU VTF2 pair will perform.