Fluance Signature Series Speakers Preview

[Brian Mowka]

In my case, the midrange needs a HPF (there appears to be none) and the LPF needs to be lowered to eliminate a significant overlap with the tweeter. I tried your suggestion and reversing the phase gave a much better plot at 1 meter, even with the other issues unadressed.

I removed the midrange, it turns out those plastic trim rims are very easy to pull out with no tools (same goes with the woofers). I was a bit concerned looking inside the enclosure, especially the top portion that houses the midrange and tweeter. There's a lot of bare MDF, and the wadding that was in there was so thin it probably doesn't do much. I suspect secondary reflections coming through the cone could be another easily improved-upon issue.

It's a bit disappointing that a speaker company has both design and manufacturing issues in the 1st place. I can understand manufacturing more as they outsource to China, but dome of the other issues you mentioned seemed to be design issues. I would be much more frustrated if they did not have free return shipping. I am glad they are listening to reviewers and hopefully we can get a beautiful speaker with sound to match in the end. At the price I would definately try these again once issues are worked out.

 

[theboogeydown]

It's a bit disappointing that a speaker company has both design and manufacturing issues in the 1st place. I can understand manufacturing more as they outsource to China, but dome of the other issues you mentioned seemed to be design issues. I would be much more frustrated if they did not have free return shipping. I am glad they are listening to reviewers and hopefully we can get a beautiful speaker with sound to match in the end. At the price I would definately try these again once issues are worked out.

All of this does become disconcerting. Makes you wonder how they even arrived at any design at all if they weren't going to follow through with the rest of it. Like having a child without employing any parenting (although...we've all seen that too)
After having returned my Sigs I've even gone so far as to direct Fluance to this thread as well as "avs forum's" thread about these speakers that "3db" pointed out. They too have highlighted similar issues but also have some great things to say about the fantastic work Gene has done investigating the Sigs and the observations by others on here.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2266234-fluance-rolls-out-signature-series-tower-19.html#/forumsite/3207/topics/2266234?page=19

 

[John Melnicoe]

Agreed these speakers have enormous potential. I'm not sure all of the problematic speakers have the same crossover mistakes but mine had a few of things that needs attention like lowering the mid HPF and putting a LPF on it and fixing the phase issue.

This is all getting interesting. Gene, I did try crossing over the mid-tweets as you suggested. To be honest, with some material it seemed a bit better/mellower, but with other source material my wife and I became psychotic trying to figure out which way sounded best. We ended up back to stock wiring for now. It sucks not knowing for sure if we are getting the most out of these, or if there is a problem as I lack the technical knowledge to figure it out. I guess we can all hope that Fluance will provide serial numbers of possible affected units, OR tell us if they are all affected. It is a tricky situation indeed.
I did call Fluance several days ago to express I had some concern, and asked if they knew of any problems. They stated to me they did not yet know of a problem, but would honor fixing them beyond the 30 day trial for me IF they found an issue. I like the speakers, so I just hope they will be honest about this.
Do you feel they are serious about a remedy for us folks with them already in our homes? Do you think they will know what to do by the serial numbers, or be able to instruct us owners on what to look for? Might there be a way to tell if my speakers are affected visually?
Thanks again for all your efforts and contact with Fluance. I do have some confidence in Fluance so far, as they seemed receptive to my concerns and it sounds like they are trying to figure it out and accept professional input from folks like you. I just hope they are not only interested in the units out for review, but will also help the rest of us, if warranted. Any thoughts on this rant? Thanks so much.

 

[gene]

In my case, the midrange needs a HPF (there appears to be none) and the LPF needs to be lowered to eliminate a significant overlap with the tweeter. I tried your suggestion and reversing the phase gave a much better plot at 1 meter, even with the other issues unadressed.

I removed the midrange, it turns out those plastic trim rims are very easy to pull out with no tools (same goes with the woofers). I was a bit concerned looking inside the enclosure, especially the top portion that houses the midrange and tweeter. There's a lot of bare MDF, and the wadding that was in there was so thin it probably doesn't do much. I suspect secondary reflections coming through the cone could be another easily improved-upon issue.

Well my review units definitely have a HPF but no LPF from what I can tell. I'd hope the mid is in its own enclosure and well damped. Stuffing the actual box is another story and simple thin sheets of dacron don't cut it. Hopefully they can look into this with the redesign if necessary.

As for mid/tweet matching, you can't just simply take nearfield responses of both drivers to determine that. Usually tweeters (especially with phase plugs, though not this particular model) need to be measured at a further distance to get the proper response and you need to scale the output levels for proper matching.

I'd rather not continue to speculate or troubleshoot as I've moved on to other projects and left this in the capable hands of our loudspeaker guru on staff and Fluance if they choose to employ his services. Otherwise they should definitely get in contact with Dennis Murphy as he's a great person to get this turned around in no time.

I have high hopes we will both be reviewing a much better Rev2 version shortly. Packing up my review samples tomorrow for shipping back to Fluance.

 

[Matt W]

Greetings all. First post here. Been lurking here and on the AVS Forums reading the various reviews of these. I now own a 5.0 set and wanted to give some background and ask some questions.

My previous setup was a 5.1 Sony HTIB. During black friday, my wife approved the procurement of a 65" Samsung JS8500. We've been very pleased with it, however even my wife was willing to agree that we should get a quality sound set up to go with it.

The room we are using is the main floor living room, approx. 25Lx15W. It has a corner fireplace and the opposite wall at this end is shorter than 15 ft as there is a wall shared with an office. Currently we have the TV and flanking floor speakers in this 'nook' (approx 8 feet workable room room, Picture attached).

The main listening position is a sectional approx 15 feet away. Behind the sofa, approximiately 10 more feet, then a single step opens to the rest of the main floor (vaulted ceiling, kitchen, etc.)

I had a Pioneer 524k to utilize and thought it would serve as a good budget foundation. I initially looked at the Pioneer Andrew Jones 5.0 setup, but then started thinking with a slightly bigger budget.

I wanted tower speakers, and I also considered the Elac F5s, however I ordered the Fluance Signature setup as it was only $899 shipped for the full 5.0 after a 10% off code. I know in speaker terms you tend to 'get what you pay for', however I felt this was a good value for performance.

This is my first entry into a real setup. Currently, we only do about 75% TV, 20% movies (or less), 5% music. I was wanting to step up a bit for a better home theater experience, as well as possibly dabble with some nice music, perhaps some concert blurays.

I received and setup my Fluance 5.0 last Thursday and over the last few days have done some music listening, and tried some movies. As mentioned, the towers flank the TV and are roughly 12" from the wall. I feel like the bass response at times is good, others is okay.

I'm not sure I can provide a quality statement about the midrange due to lack of experience. Listening to music I know well doesn't seem 'off' per se, and seems quite good, but I'm not sure how much more critical I can be.

I have tested Gene's recommendation to crosswire the bottom and top sections and am having a hard time reaching a conclusion. Perhaps my inexperienced ears have a hard time hearing differences.

I am considering possibly picking up a sub to add a little more punch for movies, and possibly some oomph to 'bassey' parts of music. I was looking at cheaper options like an ML Dynamo 300, however I'm reading that it wouldn't really do much for my application.

I was trying to keep the cost down, so maybe I'd be better served waiting until I can do the 'right' thing and get something like an HSU or SVS? I was also considering a BIC F12 as a solid 'starter', however I was really hoping for something with a smaller footprint.

I'm also critically eyeing the things Gene and Mark are saying and wondering if I should strongly consider sending mine back and thinking about a different direction.

Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

 

[awall]

I thought I would post a photo to better show what Gene is talking about. This made a huge difference on mine! It balanced out the sound surprisingly well. The highs are no longer bright and painful. The low end is no longer boomy. Before I read his wiring suggestion I felt something was not right with the sound on the towers. I tried to find the issue and ran power just to the high and mid terminals. I found there was something definitely wrong. Almost all the sound was coming out of the tweet and the mid was pretty much doing nothing. What ever that crossing of the terminals is doing seems to patch that issue and makes the mid come more to life. I still don't think it is putting out what it should be compared to what the same mid drivers are capable on the bookshelfs and center channel, but it made a definite improvement! Hope all this helps.

 

[awall]

Thought I would share some photos of them with you guys. They are definitely some beautiful speakers!

 

[speakerman39]

Thought I would share some photos of them with you guys. They are definitely some beautiful speakers!

I agree the Sig Towers really are nice to look at. Lots of potential there no doubt. Thanks for the pics!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[gene]

I thought I would post a photo to better show what Gene is talking about. This made a huge difference on mine! It balanced out the sound surprisingly well. The highs are no longer bright and painful. The low end is no longer boomy. Before I read his wiring suggestion I felt something was not right with the sound on the towers. I tried to find the issue and ran power just to the high and mid terminals. I found there was something definitely wrong. Almost all the sound was coming out of the tweet and the mid was pretty much doing nothing. What ever that crossing of the terminals is doing seems to patch that issue and makes the mid come more to life. I still don't think it is putting out what it should be compared to what the same mid drivers are capable on the bookshelfs and center channel, but it made a definite improvement! Hope all this helps.

Beautiful termination. Much neater than what I did to test this theory

 

[gene]

Thought I would share some photos of them with you guys. They are definitely some beautiful speakers!

Man you've got some camera skills. You're Hired!

 

[theboogeydown]

Given your tastes from what I am reading here, you need to pick a pair of speakers with a laid back sound signature. I don't get the Tekton design to be honest, so I won't comment other than saying its very unconventional. The SVS Ultra towers will certainly have good bass response but you may find the top end a little hot for your tastes.

You may want to consider the following speakers though some may be out of your budget:

• RBH SX-8300 or wait for the SV-6500 tower which will be cheaper: see: http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/rbh-sound-sv-line-speakers
• Revel Performa3 or Concerta2 Towers - they should give you a good balance of bass and treble with good mids
• Ascends Sierra Towers - they sound smooth and detailed but won't have the bass impact of the RBH or Def Tech towers and possibly the Revels
• Definitive Technology Mythos ST-L Towers - IMO best speaker they've ever made and has lots of great bass and great, non-fatiguing highs

Hope this helps as a starting point.

Gene,
Just curious. I have the latest version of the EMO XPA-2, which I know you're are/were a fan of and I'm using a Rogue Audio pre. I know many feel the Tektons are unconventional, but have you heard them? I don't know, think I'm loving them. The LF's dig deep right when they should and the amount of detail just keeps impressing. On paper perhaps they confound, but I'd be really eager to hear your thoughts after a proper going thru.

 

[Mark Henninger]

I thought I would post a photo to better show what Gene is talking about. This made a huge difference on mine! It balanced out the sound surprisingly well. The highs are no longer bright and painful. The low end is no longer boomy. Before I read his wiring suggestion I felt something was not right with the sound on the towers. I tried to find the issue and ran power just to the high and mid terminals. I found there was something definitely wrong. Almost all the sound was coming out of the tweet and the mid was pretty much doing nothing. What ever that crossing of the terminals is doing seems to patch that issue and makes the mid come more to life. I still don't think it is putting out what it should be compared to what the same mid drivers are capable on the bookshelfs and center channel, but it made a definite improvement! Hope all this helps.

Here's my 1-meter measurement, with the reversed-phase trick in red.

 

[Justin Zimmerman]

All, just got a set of the Signature Series speakers ordered and am shipping them directly to Dennis Murphy to work on this crossover issue. Once he gets his hands on them, I will (and maybe he as well?) post updates as to his findings. Since I didn't hear them beforehand, I won't have any real basis of comparison except against my current XL7F floorstanders, but I will do my best (as a total audio amateur) to at least give that comparison.

 

[Hocky]

All, just got a set of the Signature Series speakers ordered and am shipping them directly to Dennis Murphy to work on this crossover issue. Once he gets his hands on them, I will (and maybe he as well?) post updates as to his findings. Since I didn't hear them beforehand, I won't have any real basis of comparison except against my current XL7F floorstanders, but I will do my best (as a total audio amateur) to at least give that comparison.

Awesome. Looking forward to seeing what he finds.

 

[gene]

Here's my 1-meter measurement, with the reversed-phase trick in red. View attachment 17722

Looks like an acceptable fix for those that already like the speakers and don't want the hassle of shipping their products back. Thx for sharing. How do you like the sound after you did this? Admittedly I never actually did a listening test with this fix as I just assumed to do a review of the product with final fixes.

The good news is Fluance is working with Paul Apollonio on final resolution as we speak!

 

[gene]

Gene,
Just curious. I have the latest version of the EMO XPA-2, which I know you're are/were a fan of and I'm using a Rogue Audio pre. I know many feel the Tektons are unconventional, but have you heard them? I don't know, think I'm loving them. The LF's dig deep right when they should and the amount of detail just keeps impressing. On paper perhaps they confound, but I'd be really eager to hear your thoughts after a proper going thru.

No I haven't heard the Tektons though I know they have a small but loyal following. From a physics perspective, their Pendragon speakers look like a hot mess. That said, I've heard a number of speakers that didn't measure well and shouldn't sound good but actually did, so I will keep an open mind and welcome the opportunity for a listen one day.

 

[3db]

I once spoke to an Acura engineer about this and he claimed it was deliberate by design in all of their vehicles. They claim its a safety feature to avoid rollover. My answer was it may prevent a rollover for someone attempting to turn too sharply at high speed but it will likely cause more accidents for inexperienced drivers trying to make a U-turn in this car. IMO it's a stupid reason but I'm just a car enthusiast, not a designer trying to make the safest car for the average consumer...

Most FWD American cars have the turning radius of the USS NIMITZ. My 2013 Santa Fe turns tighter than my 2013 Elantra which is no slouch but because the vehicle is longer takes about the same radius as the Elantra. The tightest turning radiys I have experienced was a 1964 Peugeot 504. Dam that car could turn tight.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

.
I received a pair of the Fluances this morning, and have confirmed what Gene reported--the connection to the midrange is the opposite of what it should be. I've attached before and after plots.
These plots were made on-axis at a little over one meter. The portion above about 200 Hz is anechoic--that's the inherent response of the speaker free of room effects. The program then transitions to a room mode, where you see a room peak around 75 Hz (which is present on any speaker with decent bass extension in my office), and a big dip in the 100 - 200 Hz range which is floor bounce cancellation--at these frequencies, the sound wave from the woofers bounce back from the floor and cancels out the direct output. Again, this will be present on any speaker unless the woofer is mounted right next to the floor. The response is much better with the midrange connection reversed, as Gene predicted, although there are still some irregularities overall that may or may not be eliminated by a crossover redesign. That depends mainly on whether the problems are strictly due to the drivers themselves, or to interactions with the other drivers. That will take some work to figure out, although it should be possible to improve things a little even if there are inherent driver problems. At present, this is a bright speaker no matter how the mid connection is wired. But some like it bright.

 

[speakerman39]

.
I received a pair of the Fluances this morning, and have confirmed what Gene reported--the connection to the midrange is the opposite of what it should be. I've attached before and after plots.
These plots were made on-axis at a little over one meter. The portion above about 200 Hz is anechoic--that's the inherent response of the speaker free of room effects. The program then transitions to a room mode, where you see a room peak around 75 Hz (which is present on any speaker with decent bass extension in my office), and a big dip in the 100 - 200 Hz range which is floor bounce cancellation--at these frequencies, the sound wave from the woofers bounce back from the floor and cancels out the direct output. Again, this will be present on any speaker unless the woofer is mounted right next to the floor. The response is much better with the midrange connection reversed, as Gene predicted, although there are still some irregularities overall that may or may not be eliminated by a crossover redesign. That depends mainly on whether the problems are strictly due to the drivers themselves, or to interactions with the other drivers. That will take some work to figure out, although it should be possible to improve things a little even if there are inherent driver problems. At present, this is a bright speaker no matter how the mid connection is wired. But some like it bright.

Thanks Dennis for your initial impressions. So, at this point you are not sure if there are quality of drivers errors or crossover errors or both. Am I right? Hopefully, there can be a semi-easy fix in the crossover design. Driver quality issues are going to be a real problem. Things are certainly getting very imteresting to say the least.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I'm not sure there are any driver issues out of the ordinary. I just haven't measured them yet. So far, I'm not seeing anything I wouldn't expect in a speaker with this much cabinetry in this price range. It's pretty remarkable they can offer all of this for what they're asking. From the looks of the pained expression on the face of the UPS driver, these puppies aren't cheap to ship. And the cabinets are really substantial and nicely done. Plus, they ship in double boxes with lots of protection inside.