Fluance Signature Series Speakers Preview

[haraldo]

I checked with Fluance customer support and they get back to me stating that the crossover slopes that they use for the Signature series is 12db/oct.

How that translates to phase coherent is beyond me ...

 

[gene]

Gene, do you mean to hook up the wires to the speaker posts out of phase, (neg to pos)? Not sure if that is what you mean, or did you mean to do something inside of the speaker? Please advise? Also, would this be best to do, if that is what you mean, to only hook up the mids/tweeter, leaving the woofer off, (Bi-amp?)
Thanks, John

Yes remove the jumpers from the speakers. Hook your amp to the bottom terminals normal phase. The reverse the phase using a pair of wires as jumpers to connect the top set of terminals.

 

[gene]

I checked with Fluance customer support and they get back to me stating that the crossover slopes that they use for the Signature series is 12db/oct.

How that translates to phase coherent is beyond me ...

Don't get too hung up on phase coherent crossover jargon. A speaker that is "phase coherent" typically must employ a 1st order filter network which has disadvantages in poor vertical off-axis response and power handling. I'd much rather see a proper 2nd order network in place and/or a Linkwitz-Riley network which has a smooth phase response and allows for optimal integration between drivers, better off-axis performance and better power handling, etc.

 

[Swerd]

I checked with Fluance customer support and they get back to me stating that the crossover slopes that they use for the Signature series is 12db/oct.

How that translates to phase coherent is beyond me ...

Typically a second order crossover (12 dB/octave) puts two drivers 180° out of phase with each other. The usual practice is to wire one of the drivers in opposite polarity, making it "phase coherent". Maybe that's what happened at the factory… someone forgot and wired the drivers with the same polarity.

In speakers with forth order Linkwitz/Riley crossovers, the drivers are essentially "phase coherent". Technically, they are 360° out of phase with each other, but 360° is the same as 0° but one full cycle out of time coherency .

 

[haraldo]

Don't get too hung up on phase coherent crossover jargon. A speaker that is "phase coherent" typically must employ a 1st order filter network which has disadvantages in poor vertical off-axis response and power handling. I'd much rather see a proper 2nd order network in place and/or a Linkwitz-Riley network which has a smooth phase response and allows for optimal integration between drivers, better off-axis performance and better power handling, etc.

I know, coz I got a pair of Duntech's .... but they provide other advantages .... imho
At least those Dunlavy designs are extremely natural sounding ....
But absolutely horrible with room interactions, they need space, space, space...
And they got a sweet spot the size of a pea...

So maybe I'm a bit stuckup with the phase coherence, but it's for a reason
I don't believe it's a jargon, but this can be discussed to the end of the world

But the thing is that Fluance is stating things in their tech-specs thats just simply not true...

 

[John Melnicoe]

Yes remove the jumpers from the speakers. Hook your amp to the bottom terminals normal phase. The reverse the phase using a pair of wires as jumpers to connect the top set of terminals.

THANKS GENE,
I guess that will not short the amp? Sorry, new at this. So just to make sure, I connect main left/rt as normal to BOTTOM posts, (woofer), and jump wire from bottom to top in cross fashion for top reverse polarity to Mid and Tweeter? Is that right?
Thanks, will try soon if that is what you mean to do-just making sure I understand it is OK to cross jump?

 

[Jeff Zimmerman]

I've got a pair of the Fluance Signatures and I've been playing with digital crossover settings in my Onkyo 818. Would changing the high phase setting to 180 degrees be roughly the equivalent of physically cross wiring the crossover? I've done it and it does make a difference in the sound. I need to listen a lot more, but the highs seem less pronounced with better balanced midrange. The entire high end seems clearer and a bit less distorted than before.

 

[gene]

THANKS GENE,
I guess that will not short the amp? Sorry, new at this. So just to make sure, I connect main left/rt as normal to BOTTOM posts, (woofer), and jump wire from bottom to top in cross fashion for top reverse polarity to Mid and Tweeter? Is that right?
Thanks, will try soon if that is what you mean to do-just making sure I understand it is OK to cross jump?

Yes you got it and sorry if I'm bad at explaining it. A diagram would help but you got it now so I won't show off my feeble photoshop drawing skills

 

[gene]

I've got a pair of the Fluance Signatures and I've been playing with digital crossover settings in my Onkyo 818. Would changing the high phase setting to 180 degrees be roughly the equivalent of physically cross wiring the crossover? I've done it and it does make a difference in the sound. I need to listen a lot more, but the highs seem less pronounced with better balanced midrange. The entire high end seems clearer and a bit less distorted than before.

If you're running the bass section to the sub channel and the top MT section as the main channels then YES! In other words you are biamping and running the bass sections as powered subs. Very cool.

 

[Jeff Zimmerman]

If you're running the bass section to the sub channel and the top MT section as the main channels then YES! In other words you are biamping and running the bass sections as powered subs. Very cool.

Yes! It's interesting (but probably not productive) to be able to hear the change instantly as you switch the phase. I have a few demo tracks to try in the morning when I can be loud again.

 

[John Melnicoe]

Yes you got it and sorry if I'm bad at explaining it. A diagram would help but you got it now so I won't show off my feeble photoshop drawing skills

Thanks Gene, I will give it a go soon and let you know what happens.

 

[Brian Mowka]

The ELS system is good mostly b/c it plays DVD-A and DTS. I really miss playing my Procupine Tree DVD-A discs. However, the center channel sucks and the system didn't have quite enough bass.

My biggest gripe with the TL isn't the somewhat noisy cabin or rattles, or FWD, torque-steer was manageable with the 07TLS model, but the turn radius is horrible. It was nearly impossible to do a U-turn in that car. My wife's Honda Odyssey has a tighter turn circle! In comparison my Lexus IS350F sport turns on a dime. I wish Acura would stop giving us sedans with 40ft turn circles!

Completely agree - turn radius sucks in parking lots. Like a bus.

 

[Brian Mowka]

Wonder just what percentage may have this wiring issue? I received mine early January and based on what I'm seeing in this tread it seems this may explain why I felt these speakers seemed "out of sorts", but I could not put my finger on why. Glad we have people like gene and others that can sort these things out.

 

[John Melnicoe]

Wonder just what percentage may have this wiring issue? I received mine early January and based on what I'm seeing in this tread it seems this may explain why I felt these speakers seemed "out of sorts", but I could not put my finger on why. Glad we have people like gene and others that can sort these things out.

I wonder IF this group might want to compare serial numbers, or could we get serial numbers of the alleged defective ones tested? I have a pair I received on or about 2-1-2016 that seem pretty darn good overall, but might have a mid-range issue. I did tweek the midrange on my receiver which helped a lot. I am about to do the reverse phase on the mid/tweet section as suggested by Gene, (Will post about the result after listening to them). IF the forum does isolate possible affected speakers, knowing the serial numbers might help to figure out who has problematic ones? Food for thought.

 

[gene]

I wonder IF this group might want to compare serial numbers, or could we get serial numbers of the alleged defective ones tested? I have a pair I received on or about 2-1-2016 that seem pretty darn good overall, but might have a mid-range issue. I did tweek the midrange on my receiver which helped a lot. I am about to do the reverse phase on the mid/tweet section as suggested by Gene, (Will post about the result after listening to them). IF the forum does isolate possible affected speakers, knowing the serial numbers might help to figure out who has problematic ones? Food for thought.

Last I spoke with Fluance they are recalling all review units and also consulting with one of our contributors who is also a professional loudspeaker engineer/designer to help resolve their XOVER issue. If you're a current owner and finding the midrange unsatisfactory, I'd suggest letting Fluance know so you can be on the list if and when a fix comes in.

 

[speakerman39]

Last I spoke with Fluance they are recalling all review units and also consulting with one of our contributors who is also a professional loudspeaker engineer/designer to help resolve their XOVER issue. If you're a current owner and finding the midrange unsatisfactory, I'd suggest letting Fluance know so you can be on the list if and when a fix comes in.

Gene, I sure hope that there is an easy fix for Fluance. Really like the way the Sig Towers look. It is a good thing that you noticed this problem. Just curious as to how well this is going to turn out for everyone involved.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[gene]

Gene, I sure hope that there is an easy fix for Fluance. Really like the way the Sig Towers look. It is a good thing that you noticed this problem. Just curious as to how well this is going to turn out for everyone involved.

Cheers,

Phil

Agreed these speakers have enormous potential. I'm not sure all of the problematic speakers have the same crossover mistakes but mine had a few of things that needs attention like lowering the mid HPF and putting a LPF on it and fixing the phase issue.

 

[gene]

Completely agree - turn radius sucks in parking lots. Like a bus.

I once spoke to an Acura engineer about this and he claimed it was deliberate by design in all of their vehicles. They claim its a safety feature to avoid rollover. My answer was it may prevent a rollover for someone attempting to turn too sharply at high speed but it will likely cause more accidents for inexperienced drivers trying to make a U-turn in this car. IMO it's a stupid reason but I'm just a car enthusiast, not a designer trying to make the safest car for the average consumer...

 

[Mark Henninger]

Agreed these speakers have enormous potential. I'm not sure all of the problematic speakers have the same crossover mistakes but mine had a few of things that needs attention like lowering the mid HPF and putting a LPF on it and fixing the phase issue.

In my case, the midrange needs a HPF (there appears to be none) and the LPF needs to be lowered to eliminate a significant overlap with the tweeter. I tried your suggestion and reversing the phase gave a much better plot at 1 meter, even with the other issues unadressed.

I removed the midrange, it turns out those plastic trim rims are very easy to pull out with no tools (same goes with the woofers). I was a bit concerned looking inside the enclosure, especially the top portion that houses the midrange and tweeter. There's a lot of bare MDF, and the wadding that was in there was so thin it probably doesn't do much. I suspect secondary reflections coming through the cone could be another easily improved-upon issue.

 

[Brian Mowka]

I once spoke to an Acura engineer about this and he claimed it was deliberate by design in all of their vehicles. They claim its a safety feature to avoid rollover. My answer was it may prevent a rollover for someone attempting to turn too sharply at high speed but it will likely cause more accidents for inexperienced drivers trying to make a U-turn in this car. IMO it's a stupid reason but I'm just a car enthusiast, not a designer trying to make the safest car for the average consumer...

Thanks for the info! Doing u-turns are a no go unless 3 lanes for me in Phoenix. Auto enthusiast here as well (saving for used Cayman s)