New Subwoofer recommendations

[joegator81]

Tough call, but in the end, I don't see you regretting any of those options. That is the beauty of being an Audioholic - you are choosing between very good options.
However, I am disappointed that you narrowed it down to 6 options. Surely, no audio decision can be that simple! Let me help you out:
7. one E15HP for now
8. two E15HP's (WAF permitting)

Here's my logic - dimensions are
E15HP - 17"(W) x 19 " (H )x 19"(D) - (20-1/2" D with grille)
F15HP - 19"(W) x 19 " (H )x 20 "(D) - (21-1/2" D with grille)

Only an inch here and two there...that sounds pretty close, but remember, this is a volume. For volume we get:
E15HP - 6,944.5 cu. in.
F15HP - 7,761.5 cu. in.

So the F15HP is actually 11.8% (almost 1/8th) larger (calculated with grill installed), while offering 0.5dB more SPL at 20Hz.

0.5dB isn't much, so the question is whether or not the smaller size would help with WAF for the second sub.

I left pricing out because I see Rythmik is running a special on the black oak F15HP. not knowing which you want, I don't know if you will save money with the E15HP or not.

Price is the only WAF issue I really have, sorry if I wasn't clear. I told her I wouldn't spend too much though.

 

[joegator81]

Spoke to Brian again today, cancelled the L22 order at his advice. I will talk to him again tomorrow after he runs some numbers w/ my spl listening measurements.

I've decided to reconsider the PSA S1500 as well. It is priced the same as the F15HP (550watt amp) if I get it w/ the anti mode 8033s-II or a couple of hundred less without.

So my options are now:

1. Hsu ULS15 x 2: ($1637) least expensive and under initial budget, has smaller footprint, nice satin finish, lacks setup controls over more expensive options (I'd like continually adustible phase knob)

2. PSA S1500 x 2: ($1900-2149) cost between the other two options w/o anti mode, costs same as rythmik with anti mode, I'm not as familiar with this sub, free return shipping is a plus, seems to have a nice finish, smallest footprint is nice

3. Rythmik F15HP (550watt) x 2: ($2194) most expensive option, really nice built in setup options, larger than Hsu, matte finish doesn't appear as nice as the others, servo seems to be a plus, largest of them all

 

[KEW]

I have the Rythmik E15HP and the earlier PSA XS15se.
For music, they are both excellent and I am hard pressed to tell a difference. What Rythmik does with the servo, PSA gets very close to. The Data Bass info shows one of the cleanest impulse responses I have seen! It is effectively over by 25ms!
For HT, the Rythmik digs lower, but the PSA still has plenty of wallop!

 

[joegator81]

decision made. One Rythmik E15 w/ 550watt amp for now. Brian recommended I give one sub a try before committing to two. I liked the smaller size of the E series as it allows more place ment options and Brian felt it should actually be enough to meet my listening level requirements. If I like it then I'll probably just get a second one unless it would seem to be overkill.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would go with an externally powered sub and use external amps.

 

[3db]

decision made. One Rythmik E15 w/ 550watt amp for now. Brian recommended I give one sub a try before committing to two. I liked the smaller size of the E series as it allows more place ment options and Brian felt it should actually be enough to meet my listening level requirements. If I like it then I'll probably just get a second one unless it would seem to be overkill.

Its nice for a company to say "hold off and test before buying another sub from us".

 

[joegator81]

I just received my new E15 w/ 550w amp option. I started a thread asking for recommendations and everyone was very helpful. Even though there are so many great options out there the rythmik just seemed like the best fit for me. I won't be giving any detailed reviews just yet since there are so many options to dial it in. It was immediately obvious, however, that the E15 is very detailed and musical and easily bests my Epik Legend in those departments. I opted for the matte black option and though it is fairly utilitarion it isnt offensive in any way. A nice satin paint job would be a great option though for those who don't want to splurge for the piano black.
For music (i will use my Marantz AVR w/ XT32 for movies) i am only using a Belles 22A line preamp and Emerald Physics 100.2SE power amp and no base management. My intentions are to crossover the sub w/ the Salk Songtowers natural rolloff point in the low 40hz to high 30hz range. I have begun the setup but am far from really dialing it in. As of right now my settings are:
Damping: Hi
Ext: i'm trying 20hz and 14hz
Line in Low Pass: 50hz/24 but i've heard that 80hz/24 may be better w/ speakers that have 5" woofers
Crossover: approx. 40hz
Volume: 1/2
Phase: 180, i played a 40hz test tone w/ just the sub playing and it sounded loudest near 180... is this a good way to set it?
Rumble Filter: On
PEQ - Using my SPL meter the response is still down a little bit from 20hz to 25hz
20HZ
Max (not sure exactly what the minimum to maximum bandwidth does?)
+3db
I've placed the sub in the front right corner about 3 feet behind the baffle of my speaker.
What i've concluded is i've got a little dip from 20-25hz and peaks at 45hz and 60hz (i may have to adjust my songtowers some to alleviate the peaks). I can't move my seating position much but the big null is about 3-5 feet in front of me. The ideal spot may be back another 2 feet but that is impossible due to a half wall that seperates the living room from entryway

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I have yet to send Brian an email but will be doing so soon.
Thanks,
Joe

 

[joegator81]

Its nice for a company to say "hold off and test before buying another sub from us".

yes, yes it is

 

[joegator81]

Please keep in mind that for the time being I am going to run my songtowers full range until I can get a good external analog crossover.


I've taken some measurements of my songtowers and the E15. I compensated for the radio shack SPL meter's roll off. You can see that I have peaks at 45, 60, 70, 75, 90, and 95 hz.


Songtowers and no sub: From 30 to 95hz, the lowest response is 81db and the greatest is 88.5 at 95hz.

20 hz = 71.5 db

25 = 76

30 = 82

35 = 82.5

40 = 82.5

45 = 88

50 = 81.5

55 = 81

60 = 86.5

65 = 80.5

70 = 85.5

75 = 87.5

80 = 81.5

85 = 82.5

90 = 86.5

95 = 88.5

100 = 89


Sub only, set at 80hz crossover, 14hz ext, 24/80, hi damping, PEQ off:

20 = 86.5

25 = 84.5

26 = 84

27 = 85.5

28 = 88

29 = 88

30 = 88.5

35 = 83

40 = 85.5

45 = 93

50 = 85.5

55 = 84.5

60 = 83.5

65 = 78

70 = 71


I would appreciate any suggestions you might have on where to crossover (obviously at or above the 25hz drop off), ext settings, and especially PEQ settings. Thank you.

 

[KEW]

Please keep in mind that for the time being I am going to run my songtowers full range until I can get a good external analog crossover.


I've taken some measurements of my songtowers and the E15. I compensated for the radio shack SPL meter's roll off. You can see that I have peaks at 45, 60, 70, 75, 90, and 95 hz.


Songtowers and no sub: From 30 to 95hz, the lowest response is 81db and the greatest is 88.5 at 95hz.

20 hz = 71.5 db

25 = 76

30 = 82

35 = 82.5

40 = 82.5

45 = 88

50 = 81.5

55 = 81

60 = 86.5

65 = 80.5

70 = 85.5

75 = 87.5

80 = 81.5

85 = 82.5

90 = 86.5

95 = 88.5

100 = 89


Sub only, set at 80hz crossover, 14hz ext, 24/80, hi damping, PEQ off:

20 = 86.5

25 = 84.5

26 = 84

27 = 85.5

28 = 88

29 = 88

30 = 88.5

35 = 83

40 = 85.5

45 = 93

50 = 85.5

55 = 84.5

60 = 83.5

65 = 78

70 = 71


I would appreciate any suggestions you might have on where to crossover (obviously at or above the 25hz drop off), ext settings, and especially PEQ settings. Thank you.

google "SVS Merlin".

Enter your speaker info and they provide data for both AVR and stereo setup.

Definitely listen and decide with various settings, but it is a good starting point!

Enjoy!

 

[joegator81]

google "SVS Merlin".

Enter your speaker info and they provide data for both AVR and stereo setup.

Definitely listen and decide with various settings, but it is a good starting point!

Enjoy!

I'll look into it, thanks. I've done a lot of listening and measuring and moving and adjusting. I'm not telling anyone anything they don't already know but the e15 is a really fine sub. I'd still like to try an external crossover so I can better use the peq to get rid is some of those peaks. I'm fairly certain at this point that I'll be putting in an order for a second e15 soon

 

[herbu]

Phase: 180, i played a 40hz test tone w/ just the sub playing and it sounded loudest near 180... is this a good way to set it?

That doesn't sound right. "Louder" is not necessarily better. You're looking for balance.

By changing the phase 180, you have effectively moved the sub 1/2 wavelength closer or farther. For 40Hz, that's about 14'.

I'm not a sub expert here, but I'd start w/ Phase=0 and let Audyssey adjust the distance. Changing the phase is a tool available to you if you're trying to fix a problem in your room. Maybe one of the sub experts can say if I'm right.

 

[Auditor55]

I'll look into it, thanks. I've done a lot of listening and measuring and moving and adjusting. I'm not telling anyone anything they don't already know but the e15 is a really fine sub. I'd still like to try an external crossover so I can better use the peq to get rid is some of those peaks. I'm fairly certain at this point that I'll be putting in an order for a second e15 soon

Which receiver or pre/pro are you using? Why don't you do that within your AVR, if it's capable of sub eq?

 

[joegator81]

Which receiver or pre/pro are you using? Why don't you do that within your AVR, if it's capable of sub eq?

I use audyssey for movies. I'm talking specifically about all analog 2 channel using a belles 22a with HT bypass. I like it much more for music than the avr.

 

[joegator81]

That doesn't sound right. "Louder" is not necessarily better. You're looking for balance.

By changing the phase 180, you have effectively moved the sub 1/2 wavelength closer or farther. For 40Hz, that's about 14'.

I'm not a sub expert here, but I'd start w/ Phase=0 and let Audyssey adjust the distance. Changing the phase is a tool available to you if you're trying to fix a problem in your room. Maybe one of the sub experts can say if I'm right.

I know it sounds weird which is why I brought it up but several sources say that you want the most output or the least output with speaker polarity reversed. I know it's not ideal to have my subs 3 feet behind my speakers but pulling them out into the room where my speakers are placed for best sound would put the subs to far from the walls to make effective use of room gain.

As for using an avr, I will say it again, I am only using avr for movies, this is in regards to all analog 2 channel setup so audyssey doesn't apply here.

I'm going to call Brian tomorrow to get his input

 

[joegator81]

Just a little update but I am incredibly happy with the e15s for music, they are phenomenal. Though a vented 15 would give me more output for movies the e15 plays clear, deep, and loud. So much so that I can't imagine what 2 fv15s would do.

 

[3db]

Just a little update but I am incredibly happy with the e15s for music, they are phenomenal. Though a vented 15 would give me more output for movies the e15 plays clear, deep, and loud. So much so that I can't imagine what 2 fv15s would do.

Two subs would even out the bass response in the room so there would less variation in SPL when walking around the room. I only require one sub since my listening area is relatively small.

 

[joegator81]

Two subs would even out the bass response in the room so there would less variation in SPL when walking around the room. I only require one sub since my listening area is relatively small.

I'm just thinking of the added output of 2 fv15s over the 2 e15s I have. the e15s really do an amazing job with movies in my large space.

 

[KEW]

I'm just thinking of the added output of 2 fv15s over the 2 e15s I have. the e15s really do an amazing job with movies in my large space.

According to teh page linked below, the FV15HP will play 5.5dB louder at 20Hz.

http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products1.html

Also, I wanted to call your attention to the fact that Rythmik doesn't recommend vented subs for music or even combined music/HT systems! If you read below, he comments that Rythmik vented subs are tight and musical (which I do believe compared to other vented subs).
If music is a priority, you might give Brian a call and verify my interpretation.
One caveat is I really believe Brian Ding is an extreme perfectionist when it comes to subwoofer performance!

Home theatre subs
For systems where home theatre is the main priority, we recommend our vented subs. At 20 Hz, a vented sub is comparable to the output of two similar sealed subs. LV12R is our lowest cost sub and is designed for smaller rooms and modest budgets. Our larger 15" subs are suited to larger rooms and have substantially more output. Don't be fooled by typical comments about vented subs lacking accuracy. These subs are tight and musical.

Music only systems
For music-only systems we recommend our sealed subs. We have sealed subs in various sizes and finishes. Where high output at 20 Hz is not needed, our sealed subs will match the output of their vented equivalents. In addition, greater extension is possible. Combined with room gain, in-room extension to 14 Hz or even lower is possible.

Combined systems
For combined music and home theatre systems, many of our 15" sealed subs are a good all round compromise. Our dual sealed 15" F25 is a very good choice, offering the LFE output of our vented subs but with the added bonus of greater midbass efficiency and output.

 

[herbu]

I am incredibly happy with the e15s for music... imagine what 2 fv15s would do.

And thus another Audioholic is born.