Fluance Signature Series Speakers Preview

[speakerman39]

I'm not trying to push my beliefs on you. You either believe or you don't. When I bought the Fluance Speakers, I was highly disappointed as I've grown up with much more expensive speakers. Redoing of the crossovers brought them above any par that I've could have imagined. BTW. SonicCraft has a program called LSPCAD, for Loudspeaker designing. I'm pretty sure they can redisign the crossover without jacking too many things up.

Oh I am NOT taking it YOU are being pushy at all. Just trying to learn something here that might be beneficial to me. I have read where some Polkies did do some re-engineered crossovers with excellent results. I don't doubt that either. However, several loudspeaker designers claim just copying a crossover component by better components is NOT always a good idea.

When a crossover is changed with better and usually much more expensive components that there also has to be changes to the original crossover design per se. When I first started in this hobby, I had a great idea-that being changing crossover components one by one with better components. However, my idea of doing so never really took off as I am no loudspeaker designer.

Guys like Dennis Murphy, Ed Frias, or even Dave Fabrikant have the skill level to make such changes to a crossover design. So, if YOU have had good luck in doing so that is great for YOU. BTW, what Flaunce speakers did YOU own that got modified? Just curious. No pun intended. I will say that the Fluance Signature Series has gotten my attention. Perhaps, they truly are GIANT killers!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Newguy52811]

Oh I am NOT taking it YOU are being pushy at all. Just trying to learn something here that might be beneficial to me. I have read where some Polkies did do some re-engineered crossovers with excellent results. I don't doubt that either. However, several loudspeaker designers claim just copying a crossover component by better components is NOT always a good idea.

When a crossover is changed with better and usually much more expensive components that there also has to be in changes into the original crossover design per se. When I first started in this hobby I had a great idea-that being changing crossover components one by one with better components. However, my idea of doing so never really took off as I am no loudspeaker designer.

Guys like Dennis Murphy, Ed Frias, or even Dave Fabrikant have the skill level to make such changes to a crossover design. So, if YOU have had good luck in doing so that is great for YOU. BTW, what Flaunce speakers did YOU own that got modified? Just curious. No pun intended. I will say that the Fluance Signature Series has gotten my attention. Perhaps, they truly are GIANT killers!

Cheers,

Phil

The XL7F's, The XL7C, and the XLBP's is the speakers that got modified. Just to let you know, you don't have to modify them yourself. There's a pretty awesome guy named Jeff at SonicCraft that can modify crossovers with ease.

 

[Newguy52811]

Don't take it personally if we doubt you. You can believe what ever you want. This is a public forum and there are many readers who want to learn something about audio. So, if you make extraordinary claims of how changing brands of capacitors makes an audible difference, show us some extraordinary evidence to go with that claim.

LSPCAD is an excellent crossover design tool. But like any software, it isn't automatic. The operator still has to make the right choices. Those redesigned crossovers may be good if they actually are an improvement over the original design. But that would be due to the design of the crossover, not the brand name of the capacitors.

Explain what do you mean by design? Why redesign something that doesn't need to be redesigned? http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/crossovers Take a look at this. Notice however:

 

[M Midnight]

Oh, I am NOT doubting your findings at all. To be honest, I have never heard a Fluance speaker or RBH/EMP-TEK. I just find it hard to believe from what I have read in the past. But, perhaps Fluance hit a home run with their new speakers? Personally, I would like to see how the Fluance speakers compare to the Sony Core.

Cheers,

Phil

After further listening i have come to the conclusion.........They have hit more than a home run....they have hit a grandslam to win the championship. here are some comparison shots with the R55ti's for your viewing pleasure.

 

[Brian Mowka]

Great pics, thanks for posting

 

[Seth=L]

why does B&W also use Mundorf Capacitors if electrolytic and film caps didn't make a difference.

I can think of at least two reasons.

• Perception
• Reliability / Longevity

Perception - How disappointed would you be if you just spent $12000 on speakers and found they used electrolytic caps in the crossover?


Durability / Longevity - B&W speakers like that are a speaker system you could own for a lifetime and probably be absolutely trouble free because the parts will last a lifetime. Electrolytic caps generally don't last as long as higher quality film capacitors.

 

[Swerd]

Explain what do you mean by design? Why redesign something that doesn't need to be redesigned? http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/crossovers Take a look at this. Notice however:

I'm glad to see you read that article. I generally agree with everything it says.

What really matters in a speaker crossover design, is how the speakers behave acoustically with the crossovers. See this for a brief description of what I mean by crossover design http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=135.

 

[speakerman39]

The XL7F's, The XL7C, and the XLBP's is the speakers that got modified. Just to let you know, you don't have to modify them yourself. There's a pretty awesome guy named Jeff at SonicCraft that can modify crossovers with ease.

Thanks I will look into that. Sounds like Jeff has a lot of skills. So, did YOU take out the crossovers in each speaker and send them to Jeff for modification? Was it expensive? Just curious is all.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[speakerman39]

After further listening i have come to the conclusion.........They have hit more than a home run....they have hit a grandslam to win the championship. here are some comparison shots with the R55ti's for your viewing pleasure.

Wow! Very impressive. YOU really have me curious about the new Fluance speakers. Just wonder how the Bookshelf and Center speaker would perform. Might just have to check them out. Thanks for the pics!

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Newguy52811]

I'm glad to see you read that article. I generally agree with everything it says.

What really matters in a speaker crossover design, is how the speakers behave acoustically with the crossovers. See this for a brief description of what I mean by crossover design http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=135.

There wasn't anything wrong with the design of the crossover though. Just had electrolytic capacitors. He did also change the resistors to Mills Resistors.

 

[Newguy52811]

Thanks I will look into that. Sounds like Jeff has a lot of skills. So, did YOU take out the crossovers in each speaker and send them to Jeff for modification? Was it expensive? Just curious is all.

Cheers,

Phil

Yes, I took the crossovers out myself, and sent them to him. He's really intelligent, has a Masters in this stuff. I only spent 700 for the upgrades and they really kick butt!

 

[speakerman39]

Yes, I took the crossovers out myself, and sent them to him. He's really intelligent, has a Masters in this stuff. I only spent 700 for the upgrades and they really kick butt!

Wow! That is a good investment then. So, $700 for all (5) speakers? What exactly did Jeff do? Did he just copy the crossover design but used much better components? Or, did he totally redesign the crossovers?Superior components are built to much higher/stricter standards with very tighttolerances from what I understand. In your case, it sounds like you made the right decision. Lastly, what did YOU not like about the Fluance speakers before the modifications?

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Newguy52811]

Wow! That is a good investment then. So, $700 for all (5) speakers? What exactly did Jeff do? Did he just copy the crossover design but used much better components? Or, did he totally redesign the crossovers?Superior components are built to much higher/stricter standards with very tighttolerances from what I understand. In your case, it sounds like you made the right decision. Lastly, what did YOU not like about
the Fluance speakers before the modifications?

Cheers,

Phil

He copied the design of the crossover and used better components. The speakers would strain at high volumes, they didn't also have the depth perception other high end speakers do. These things play the piano so beautifully now, they create a sound stage around you that wasn't present before. Pure awesomeness.

 

[speakerman39]

He copied the design of the crossover and used better components. The speakers would strain at high volumes, they didn't also have the depth perception other high end speakers do. These things play the piano so beautifully now, they create a sound stage around you that wasn't present before. Pure awesomeness.

I see. Did Jeff make any adjustments that YOU know of to the original crossover design? Sure wished I knew how to design crossovers. It has got to be fun....LOL!!! Imagine what Jeff could do the the new Signature Series speakers. Wonder what kind of level they would be on then?

Cheers,

Phil

 

[theboogeydown]

After 3 days of heavy listening to the Signatures I will say this: If your budget is no more than $800 for a pair of speakers, I have to imagine these are the best you can get, all around ,IMHO, incredible build quality. My observations/nitpicks (and please take into account I'm not a well schooled technical audiophile) are that the low end sounds wonderful but that the tweeters struck me as too bright, at times making horns hard to listen to. Also, the mids weren't very warm which I thought left some vocals flat and disengaging. It's ironic to say, but I felt like there was too much separation with highs, mids and lows not blending together, not terribly musical. I never really found the speakers "signature' (I know) soundstage either, nothing consistent at least. I never bothered to run a proper shootout with my Vienna Acoustics' Mozarts as I felt like it wasn't practical. As a result, I've ordered Tektons' Enzo XL to run a more comparable side by side (at 3X's the $$, they need to crush to win). I am VERY curious to hear Gene's take.

btw: Rogue Audio Perseus Pre, Emotiva XPA-2 power and Pro-Ject debut carbon TT

 

[Newguy52811]

I see. Did Jeff make any adjustments that YOU know of to the original crossover design? Sure wished I knew how to design crossovers. It has got to be fun....LOL!!! Imagine what Jeff could do the the new Signature Series speakers. Wonder what kind of level they would be on then?

Cheers,

Phil

As far as I know there was no redesigning of the crossovers, just modification. I'm sure he can do wonders with the Signature Series. Just can't wait to get the money and find out. Here is what he said to me in an email on Audiocircle.com he has a forum there.

 

[M Midnight]

After 3 days of heavy listening to the Signatures I will say this: If your budget is no more than $800 for a pair of speakers, I have to imagine these are the best you can get, all around ,IMHO, incredible build quality. My observations/nitpicks (and please take into account I'm not a well schooled technical audiophile) are that the low end sounds wonderful but that the tweeters struck me as too bright, at times making horns hard to listen to. Also, the mids weren't very warm which I thought left some vocals flat and disengaging. It's ironic to say, but I felt like there was too much separation with highs, mids and lows not blending together, not terribly musical. I never really found the speakers "signature' (I know) soundstage either, nothing consistent at least. I never bothered to run a proper shootout with my Vienna Acoustics' Mozarts as I felt like it wasn't practical. As a result, I've ordered Tektons' Enzo XL to run a more comparable side by side (at 3X's the $$, they need to crush to win). I am VERY curious to hear Gene's take.

btw: Rogue Audio Perseus Pre, Emotiva XPA-2 power and Pro-Ject debut carbon TT

That is an interesting opinion as I find these speakers to be very neutral, as have all the other opinions i have read so far. I have also found the mids to be very natural so far, and the clarity to be amazing so far. Also under $800 dollars the R55ti, fs-52 and the sony core don't exhibit and of the complaints you have about the signatures....at least not in my opinion. My opinion could not be more different about these speakers. I however do respect your opinion and look forward to everyone else's opinions.........

 

[speakerman39]

As far as I know there was no redesigning of the crossovers, just modification. I'm sure he can do wonders with the Signature Series. Just can't wait to get the money and find out. Here is what he said to me in an email on Audiocircle.com he has a forum there.

Thanks for the info. I will check out Audiocircle as well. YOU sure have me curious.

Cheers,

Phil

 

[Swerd]

As far as I know there was no redesigning of the crossovers, just modification…

Replacing crossover components with more expensive parts, but leaving the same crossover design, has no audible benefit at all.

It is no different than replacing zipcord speaker wire with expensive "boutique" speaker cables. It will cost you money, but you will not hear a difference. I'm sorry if you paid $700 for those crossovers (even if it was for several speakers) you were taken.

Other readers, please take note!

 

[Newguy52811]

Replacing crossover components with more expensive parts, but leaving the same crossover design, has no audible benefit at all.

It is no different than replacing zipcord speaker wire with expensive "boutique" speaker cables. It will cost you money, but you will not hear a difference. I'm sorry if you paid $700 for those crossovers (even if it was for several speakers) you were taken.


Other readers, please take note!

I'm sorry, I wasn't taken. My dad has a complete THX system with THX cables, and my system is a lot more flexible in various ways than his. That $700 was the best money I have ever spent! You are in the dark on how they can change the sonics.