Thoughts and prayers for Paris, France.

[Swerd]

Disagree with whom? I don't think I said what I think we should do about it. In fact, I don't know what we should do. My knee-jerk reaction is good ol Southern boy redneck. But the truth is, I don't know.

I re-read the above posts, and I think I was disagreeing with some one other than you. So I misspoke.

My knee-jerk reaction is probably worse. As Mark says, drop a bomb on Mecca during the Haj, but instead of explosives, fill the bomb with liquefied pork fat and make it an air burst so it sprays widely over the whole area.

So I suppose the answer lies somewhere in the middle…

And at this point, I don't see anything else that works. Do you? I really don't think you're suggesting "bribery" as a viable option.

No I don't really suggest bribery. I only point it out because it has been far more successful than the conventional western military methods.

It worked in Northern Iraq in 2007-08 when we paid better than what our opposition offered. It bought their loyalty, but then we turned off the money as we wanted to pull out.

I think our biggest problem is we think the Arab world consists of "states" and "nations", much the same as in Europe or North America. The Arab world is more like tribes and clans than nations. If someone is a member of your clan, you treat them like family members, as they probably are. Everyone else is trying to rob and kill you, so you return the sentiment. That explains their politics and the civil wars.

So instead of invading and appearing as a big dangerous competing clan, find out who the local factions are, and pay one to fight the other. That's how the British succeeded with its empire – divide and conquer. Yes, it's cynical, but it works.

 

[markw]

Just a friendly reminder, folks, more Americans have died on US soil as a result of domestic terrorism. So please show some respect and stop politicizing this!

Do you mean 9/11/2001? where about 2700 died? I must have forgotten that was domestic terrorism. on, wait.

 

[haraldo]

I read where the police in Norway, due to relaxed threat levels, will now be unarmed with their weapons once again in their vehicles. Is that now being rethought?

It was decided just last week that police will be fully unarmed now due to a very lowered risk situation, and that the population should not live with the fear that comes from a police being unarmed... Police forces are outraged by this decision.

If this is being reconsidered, I don't know yet, but the Police security service is evaluation the situation and what to recommend. I believe risk level is lower in Norway than in France but I don't think we're off the chart. Naivety is a word that comes to mind...

In UK they raised the level to 'Severe', which is quite big step I think, while it's considerations of raising the level even further to 'critical' or even 'attack imminent'. I really hope there will not be more of this madness coming up...
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/paris-terror-attacks-british-terror-6830750

 

[markw]

Three strangers strike up a conversation in the airport passenger lounge in Bozeman, Montana, awaiting their flights.

One is an American Indian passing through from Lame Deer. Another is a Cowboy on his way to Billings for a livestock show and the third passenger is a fundamentalist Arab student, newly arrived at Montana State University from the Middle East.

Their discussion drifts to their diverse cultures. Soon, the two Westerners learn that the Arab is a devout, radical Muslim and the conversation falls into an uneasy lull.

The cowboy leans back in his chair, crosses his boots on a magazine table and tips his big sweat-stained hat forward over his face. The wind outside is blowing tumbleweeds around, and the old windsock is flapping; but still no plane comes.

Finally, the American Indian clears his throat and softly he speaks, "At one time here, my people were many, but sadly, now we are few."

The Muslim student raises an eyebrow and leans forward, "Once my people were few," he sneers, "and now we are many. Why do you suppose that is?"

The Montana cowboy shifts his toothpick to one side of his mouth and from the darkness beneath his Stetson says in a drawl, "That's 'cause we ain't played Cowboys and Muslims yet, but I do believe it's a-comin'."

 

[markw]

It was decided just last week that police will be fully unarmed now due to a very lowered risk situation, and that the population should not live with the fear that comes from a police being unarmed... Police forces are outraged by this decision.

Don/t take this the wrong way, but it's comforting to know that we aren't the only country saddled with brain-dead politicians that are isolated from the consequences of their actions who we allow to make bad decisions for us. But, what really boggles my mind is that we keep re-electing them.

 

[Rickster71]

I have been a strong and consistent opponent of the gun laws of US, but now I start to think.... If something like this happened and I was there, would I want to have a gun to be able to protect the loved one, the answer is "maybe" a yes... I don't want to be a sitting duck..............

I read your entire post and before I comment on the small part I quoted, I have to commend you on your honesty and openness.

Sounds like your thoughts on U.S. gun laws are an evolving process.
I never realized how much of a struggle it is for some, until I read your highlighted line (above)
Two things entered my mind and really hit home....
1. How and why do we struggle with one's right to self preservation?
2. I wondered what loved ones thought if they were to read that line... the one with the word, "maybe"

 

[Chu Gai]

Something to consider is in what sort of areas do gun shootings occur? Is there a correlation with gun free zones?

 

[haraldo]

I read your entire post and before I comment on the small part I quoted, I have to commend you on your honesty and openness.

Sounds like your thoughts on U.S. gun laws are an evolving process.
I never realized how much of a struggle it is for some, until I read your highlighted line (above)
Two things entered my mind and really hit home....
1. How and why do we struggle with one's right to self preservation?
2. I wondered what loved ones thought if they were to read that line... the one with the word, "maybe"

You are 100% misinterpreting me on the underlined statement.....
Would I defend the people close to me with all possible means? Yes
If I would have an AG3 in my hands, would I hesitate to protect my family? not a microsecond
Do I want to carry a gun? maybe... and this means my view on gun laws are under consideration, as you correctly point out.

The one problem is .... that you don't know when these things happen...

But from another point of view, you can't fight cruelty by cruelty. The point of view here as I see it is how to best protect yourself

 

[Chu Gai]

As to what can be done, I'm no military or diplomatic strategist. From past history, it seems that whenever non-Muslim troops are involved in actions, that the global Muslim community gets into this whole 'we are being targeted' thing. Blow up a mosque, shoot up a cemetery, take out a school, they all become major issues. But if Muslims do it, nary a mention. Hell, they can blow up anything - museums, World Heritage sites, Buddhist carvings on a mountain, churches, synagogues, you name it.

So I understand it when countries have a reluctance to want to have their troops being the primary force doing combat. In the global opinion, it's just a no-win situation. What Muslim countries are really going to want to send their troops to clear out ISIS strongholds as well as being on the same page? Saudis and Iranians, nope. Sometimes I think that the US, Russia, and China should collectively and without warning drop three or six tactical neutron bombs on Raqqua. Neglible long lasting radiation, minimal infrastructure damage, and neutrons have a way of wreaking fatalities. Collateral damage to civilians, sure. That's war.

 

[markw]

I'm no expert, but it seems that the greatest majority of these "refugees" are unattached, strapping, young men of fighting age.

Why are there no women and children with them? Did they leave them at home to suffer the consequences while they run away like cowards?

Or are they using their "refugee" status to covertly invade other countries? Perhaps France could offer some answers here.

IMNSHO, these young men should be sent packing and women and children admitted, along with persecuted Christians or other sects.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I can understand the anger aroused by this latest atrocity, but I'm not sure all the talk of massive bombing campaigns really gets us anywhere. ISIS has killed far more - and by a wide margin - fellow Muslims than any other demographic. So, they are being victimized on a greater scale than "we" (the West) have been. I certainly have no problem with targeting of confirmed ISIS/Al Qaeda/Al Shabaab/Etc. But, callous and indiscriminate attacks won't help - it just breeds more resentment of the West and increases support for those militant groups. My impression is that most people living under the thumb of ISIS aren't very happy about it.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Here's an interesting perspective on the subject of Islamic terrorism. http://www.straight.com/news/420321/gwynne-dyer-explains-why-terrorism-overblown-and-why-islamists-want-western-countries

 

[markw]

As to what can be done, I'm no military or diplomatic strategist. From past history, it seems that whenever non-Muslim troops are involved in actions, that the global Muslim community gets into this whole 'we are being targeted' thing. Blow up a mosque, shoot up a cemetery, take out a school, they all become major issues. But if Muslims do it, nary a mention. Hell, they can blow up anything - museums, World Heritage sites, Buddhist carvings on a mountain, churches, synagogues, you name it.

Crybullies and crymobs.

Although these phrases were coined in relation to the current goings on at Mizzou and other locations, this is what you describe here. Muslims have been using these tactics for years and now it's trickled down to our college campuses

Read more here: http://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/260744/crymobs-crybullying-and-lefts-whiny-war-speech-daniel-greenfield

 

[Rickster71]

You are 100% misinterpreting me on the underlined statement.....
Would I defend the people close to me with all possible means? Yes
If I would have an AG3 in my hands, would I hesitate to protect my family? not a microsecond
Do I want to carry a gun? maybe... and this means my view on gun laws are under consideration, as you correctly point out.

The one problem is .... that you don't know when these things happen...

But from another point of view, you can't fight cruelty by cruelty. The point of view here as I see it is how to best protect yourself

I misunderstood exactly what you meant by "maybe."
With that being said, how would you protect your loved ones when the bad guys have guns and are banking on the rest of us being too civilized to ever match their level of cruelty?
Seems like they know there is no real way to fight terrorism and we don't have the guts to fight fire with fire.
They also know that our governments can't effectively fight terrorism, since we use the same fairness and rules that are used in a sporting event.

 

[Rickster71]

But, callous and indiscriminate attacks won't help - it just breeds more resentment.../QUOTE]


Isn't interesting we're the only ones worried about that.
Can you picture any of these terrorists concerned with their popularity poll numbers?
They know terrorism is the magic bullet, we can't beat it with our rules of engagement and political correctness.... they stick with what works.

 

[haraldo]

I misunderstood exactly what you meant by "maybe."
With that being said, how would you protect your loved ones when the bad guys have guns and are banking on the rest of us being too civilized to ever match their level of cruelty?
Seems like they know there is no real way to fight terrorism and we don't have the guts to fight fire with fire.
They also know that our governments can't effectively fight terrorism, since we use the same fairness and rules that are used in a sporting event.

I'm way NOT cruel enough, as you point out ...

And really I want to live in a society where you don't have to be afraid.... and that being not afraid means not carrying a gun...

But the thing is... the world around us here is changing in a way that I really don't care for, and the governemnt is acting like puppets....

The Norwegian prime minister had a speech on Saturday that just made me fell puke... she's just iterating the same words and terms that was said after the terror attack on Norway on 07.22 2011

Really agree on this one: Seems like they know there is no real way to fight terrorism and we don't have the guts to fight fire with fire.

What to do? I have no clue whatsoever

 

[haraldo]

I'm no expert, but it seems that the greatest majority of these "refugees" are unattached, strapping, young men of fighting age.

Why are there no women and children with them? Did they leave them at home to suffer the consequences while they run away like cowards?

Or are they using their "refugee" status to covertly invade other countries? Perhaps France could offer some answers here.

IMNSHO, these young men should be sent packing and women and children admitted, along with persecuted Christians or other sects.

As I understand one of the terrorists is identified as a refugee entering Greece from Syria, not sure whether it's really that guy or if it's faked id.... but there are of course some really bad seeds entering Europe from Syria these days....

And Norway is beeing flooded with refugees from Syria, most of them are probably just economic refugees... a significant amount of people being residents of russia for a long time....

 

[mtrycrafts]

...I had kind of thought that people would just grow out of it and look at some of these claims and beliefs to be, well, silly. ....

Don't think we'll live long enough to see this happen. Evolution is a very slow process.

 

[haraldo]

Don't think we'll live long enough to see this happen. Evolution is a very slow process.

I plan to live a long long time Chu
But now I'm going to bed .... Going to the US embassy tomorrow on official matters

 

[haraldo]

The terrorists trying to attack Stade de France did seemingly not have very much knowledge about France and "French way", they were trying to enter the football match with big bomb belts around their waists, and as they were frisked, the bombs were revealed... at that point they ran away and one of the bombs went off immediately afterwards... As such, the attempted attack on the football match was more or less a failure due to really poor knowledge about how things work in Paris.

Even in Norway you are frisked at any football match and at a major football game in Paris it's for granted that you will be, so I wonder how they could imagine to get into the match with bombs?

Probably a strong indication that those people just arrived in Paris right before the attack.