Need help putting together new 5.1 system

[Ty Wayne]

I was confused about what kind of discount I would get from Ascend, so I emailed them and asked them to explain. Here is their reply:


"The package discount is not the same as the subwoofer discount. Our package discount is applied on the speakers only.
There's are three different package discounts we offer. The first one is saving $28 when purchasing a pair of mains with a center. The second one you save a total of $96 when you purchase two pairs and a center. Then the third package is saving you a total of $194 when purchasing three pairs of speakers and one center.
We have two different types of subwoofer discounts. The fist one is saving you 5% on any full prices subwoofer. Then the second disc is giving you 10% off any dual purchases.
Please note if the subwoofer is on sale then you can only choose one of the discounts. It's either the sale price or the discounts offered by Ascend.
All LV12R subwoofers are now on sale for $30 off with FREE shipping. This price saves you an extra five cents.
Please note that all LV12R subwoofers are currently out of stock until the middle of February. If you are still interested please be sure to get your order in ASAP. We will not charge you until the subwoofers are back in stock and ready to ship."

What would you guys advise me to do? The comment about only saving 5 cents on the sub really confused me. Whats up with that? Anyway, Im conflicted at this point. Having said that, I really want the LV12R sub. Perhaps I should just go ahead and grab it. I dunno?

EDIT: I think maybe what she is saying is that they offer a discount on the sub with any order of speakers, and since I ordered the 340's a couple of days ago, I would be eligible. However, taking that discount, or just taking the sale discount, are basically the same deal (5 cents difference). At least I think that's what she is saying.

 

[GIEGAR]

LOL. Yeah, I think the Rythmik will simply be too much money for me, even 45-55 days from now. If I add more, it will either be to get a center, or the cbm-170's for surrounds. Just cant do 550-600 bucks right now. While we are on this subject, would you recommend I get the surrounds or the center next? I think JB said the other day that the surrounds would be a better fit for now. Am I correct?


This extender purchase plan will count towards the two surrounds correct? They are on sell right now for 298/pair.

I'd definitely get the centre next, especially since you already have the Kenwoods as a stopgap. Anchoring the front end during movies etc, the centre is simply a far more critical speaker than the surrounds.

On the subject of surrounds... have you considered the Ascend HTM-200 SE's? These are a compact, low profile sealed design that are optimised for on or near wall use. They're probably a better suited for surround use than the 170's and they're easily wall mounted, so you may save on the stands or brackets you'd need for the rear ported 170's. They'll be less than the 170's when they go back to the normal price and they (200's) do go on sale and are in B-Stock from time-to-time.

 

[GIEGAR]

AHH, GIEGAR!!!! I just canceled my BIC order. You got me second guessing my decision. Plus, I read that thread you gave the link to about the Rythmik. I REALLY WANT THAT SUB! Not sure if I can swing it or not. They are out of stock anyway until mid Feb. If I cant swing the deal, then I'll go back and order the BIC I guess. Oh man, the bug has bit, and its bit hard!!!

Yeah sorry mate, I'm terrible aren't I!

The OP's glorious reaction in that thread has sold a few Ascend/Rythmik combos I imagine.

Better line up that LV12R before I start talking you into a FV15HP!

So you guys think the Rythmik over the BIC will be well worth the 300+ bucks its going to cost in difference? My wife is going to kill me. I went into this looking to spend 500-600 bucks, now if I get the Rythmik Im in over a 1,000. If you guys really think its worth it to get the Rythmik Im going to try and swing it. If the change wont be that drastic, I might go ahead with the BIC. What da ya say? Final answer...BIC for 188 bucks, or Rythmik for somewhere around 500-550 bucks? C'mon guys, tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear. Plus, looking at the back of that Rythmik, Im intimidated. You know if I get that thing its going to mean more questions on how to hook it up properly, right?

Ty, the Rythmik is a clear step up in class: plays deeper, greater accuracy (direct-servo), lower distortion, higher output (when required), adjustable LF extension and connection options. Higher quality components and operation well within it's capability during general use point to superior reliability and longevity*.

If you need any more convincing, check out the cone control in this clip of another Direct-Servo Rythmik.

We sure can help you out with any setup questions. There's also the A/H Rythmik Audio owners thread here, where the thread starter, 3db is a happy LV12R owner. He would certainly be able to assist if we can't. There's also an active owners thread over on AVS that Rythmik's founder/owner/designer Brian Ding monitors and regularly posts on.

[* This bit might appeal to the bride. ]

 

[Ty Wayne]

LOL GIEGAR. Yeah, don't talk me into the FV15HP. Me and the wife just had a little bit of a arguing match, but I think I've worked something out. Here is the deal. I ordered that 64 inch Plasma, but I ordered it site to store pickup at Walmart. The thing is, I can still back out of getting that TV and get full refund (1400 bucks). Of course, I don't get the TV, but I get some awesome speakers!! LOL

Long story short, I've now got 1700 bucks to spend and the wife is actually HAPPY. She thinks she is getting the good end of the deal if I spend 1500-1700 bucks on stereo equipment and leave off the 1400 dollar TV. So where am I at??

I've already ordered the CMT-340 mains-----500 bucks
I want the LV12R------about 550 bucks

This gives me about 600 more bucks to play with now. What do I do? Do I spend it on a center and surrounds? Or do I spend it on something else, like even a better sub...maybe an upgraded receiver??? I dont know? Wow. This is crazy. I need to know pretty quick though. The lady at Ascend told me to get my order in on the LV12R ASAP if I wanted one come mid-February. What do I do?

 

[Ty Wayne]

So, I could get the CMT-340 SE Center.....298 bucks
And get the FV15HP sub.....1074 bucks
Total-1372 bucks
This is going a bit over my 1700 budget because I already ordered the CMT-340 mains (500 bucks). This route also leaves me without surrounds.
Grand total (with my mains) somewhere around 1900 bucks
OR

I could go ahead with the LV12R.....550 bucks
Add the CMT center....298 bucks
Add the CBM-170's for surrounds....298 bucks
Total= 1137 with discount.
Grand total (with my mains) somewhere around 1700 bucks, and I get surrounds.

Only negative is that I have to wait another month and a half to get my sub because its on backorder.

 

[GIEGAR]

OK Ty, it's taken me some time here to assemble my thoughts...

I'd stick to the plan and go with your second option above. The LV12R will be perfectly fine in your room and for your needs. The F15HP will dig a little deeper in-room due to the shallower roll-off of a sealed design, but has only marginal extra output (1.5dB) at 20Hz. Also, if your thinking ~$1100 for subwoofage, you'd be far better off adding a second LV12R at some future stage. (Not so much for extra output, but for a smoother bass response over the listening area.)

When ordering surrounds, there's a pair of HTM-200 SE's in Ascend's B-Stock that might be worthwhile considering. Will you also need pedestal stands for the 340's? There's a pair in B-Stock as well.

All that (mains, centre, surrounds, sub, stands) loaded into Ascend's shopping cart comes to $1780 shipped, which keeps faith with the freshly negotiated budget. I suspect this will stand you in good stead for when it comes time to broach the subject of a big new plasma again.

Don't worry too much about the wait... the 340's will keep a on your face until the sub arrives!

 

[Ty Wayne]

Yeah, I wasn't sure what "B-Stock" was. What does B-Stock mean? Also, how important are the pedestals for my mains? I see it as either getting the cbm 170's for the surrounds and no pedestals, or, getting the HTM-200 SE's along with pedestals for my mains. To me, it comes down to how important pedestals are. I don't know?

EDIT: I see now that B-stock is simply a returned item (opened box) or something with minor cosmetic damage.

 

[GIEGAR]

For optimum performance, it's important that the LCR's tweeters are be positioned at (or close to) seated head height, or at least aimed at seated head height. Unless you already have speaker stands or can put the 340's on each end of a long entertainment unit (say), the pedestals will be the ideal way of achieving this. They're a neat solution too and give the 340's the look of a slim tower speaker, as shown on Ascend's home page.

Ty, the HTM-200 SE's are my firm recommendation for surrounds anyway due to their placement flexibility and compact size. I originally recommended the CBM-170's because the intended scenario was that they'd be used as main speakers for several months to a year before the 340's arrived.

So summing up... pedestal stands plus HTM-200 SE's are a win - win package as far as I see it.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Thanks again GIEGAR. I went ahead and just made a decision earlier today before your last comment. I had already ordered the 340 mains a couple of days ago. Today, I ordered the 340 center, the cbm-170's for surrounds, and of course, the LV12R sub. I hope Im not too disappointed with the 170's for surrounds, but I bet I'll like them okay. Maybe I can add the pedestal's later. And if I ever upgrade to a 7.1, then I can add the HTM-200's.

For now, Im just waiting on the delivery man for my cables/wire/mic, and of course my speakers. At that point, Im almost positive I'll be back for setup help. Thanks for yall's help and recommendations. Truly appreciate it and I cant wait to get my system going.

 

[GIEGAR]

Good on you Ty, you've chosen very, very well. Well done too to JohnnieB for the great recommendation and advice. *thumps up*

You won't be disappointed with the CBM-170's at all, I hope I didn't give that impression. They're a high performance speaker and probably slightly overkill if anything, but why not while they're the same price as the HTM-200's?

Believe me, this will be one heck of kick-ass 5.1 system... you're in for a real treat! Surrounded by eight identical 6.5" woofers supported by a classy 12" sub will be hard to top.

Really looking forward to your impressions when you get it fired up Ty, but here to help if I can in the meantime.

Cheers mate!

 

[Ty Wayne]

probably slightly overkill if anything, but why not while they're the same price as the HTM-200's?

Yeah, I kind felt like they were overkill, but since my wife talked me out of a new plasma, I thought what the hell? She's going to raise cain when I shake the house! She will be wishing I got the plasma.

And yes, kudos to JB as well. Yall have been awesome!!!

 

[JohnnieB]

There is one other use for your surrounds. Most audiophiles listen to most music in stereo, with only the front L/R speakers. But sometimes with a bunch of people, you want to fill the room with music, but not be too loud near your L/R and too soft at the other end of the room. Most receivers have an All Channel Stereo mode. With this, all your left speakers, both front and surround, get the left stereo channel. And all your right speakers, both front and surround, get the right stereo channel. This is usually an infrequent occurance, and would not change your priorities of giving your fronts the most attention and $ first.

If you like to entertain, this is a very good point. This is another reason I like the 170 as surrounds.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Just wanted to give a small update. I mentioned it over on Clay's thread, but wanted to put it here too. Got my 340 L,R, & C, as well as my 170 surrounds today! I've only been able to listen for about 20 minutes so far (had to work tonight), but Im very pleased at this point. Cant believe I put up with those old Kenwood's for so long!

Thus far, I've only sampled a few music stations on Directv and I listened briefly to a ZZ top blu-ray concert. First impression is GREAT! I do believe that I have WAY more speaker than receiver though! When listening to directv music, I could max out the volume on the receiver and they still sounded very good. Blu-ray ways different. I was far below maxing out on it and it was very loud, and very clear. Thanks again for all the help guys. Cant wait for my sub next month!!!

 

[JohnnieB]

Blu-ray is a much cleaner source than direcTV. If you can get to you're preferred listening level with BR or CD, your receiver is up to the task.
Glad to hear you are liking the Ascends.

 

[Swerd]

Just wanted to give a small update…
Thanks again for all the help guys. Cant wait for my sub next month!!!

Ty

Your questions have been rather good, and you've seem willing to listen to advice. It shows that you've been thinking and reading a lot about all this. That kept me interested, and probably did the same for others at AH as well.

We've had other newbies on AH who want to spend no more than $400 for an entire system , or those who insist they want ceiling speakers or sound bars. And we've had those with aging stereo systems from 25 years ago or longer who don't understand the advantages of the newer digital AV systems. They want to get a new system, but don't want to learn about what's available now.

In comparison, talking with you and Clay has been fun. Enjoy your new system!

 

[Ty Wayne]

Thanks JB and Swerd. I got my kids off to school and the babysitter all by 8:30 this am. After that, I went back to the ZZ Top blu-ray (Live At Montreux) and listened for a good 45 minutes. Then I went to an old Metallica S&M DVD and listened for 20 to 30 minutes. Both sounded great. Im trying to learn to listen! Not sure if that's a curse or a good thing! LOL. Im already starting to get picky.

One thing I've always struggled with is the different formats and settings via the sources as well as the AVR. I've spent considerable time reading about these things but I've not spent nearly enough. Last night at work I spent quite a few hours (hope my boss never sees this) on this site reading various articles about audio technologies and just trying to understand.

JB has already explained a little bit about compression and things like this. I never had a clue! But Im starting to get it, and I believe Im already beginning to listen with more critical and discerning ears. My virgin ears aren't tuned yet, but I have a feeling they will be soon. I've just got to learn about different sources and formats, as well as how to listen to them.

Its true, louder isn't necessarily better! I do know that I like to feel the bass though. I do know that. I think once I get my LV12R its going to make even more of a difference in how I listen. Right now I feel that desire to crank it up a little too far in order to feel the bass. The trouble is that my ears start screaming fairly quickly to turn it down. Im hoping that will change some with my new sub.

Either way though, Im loving it, and my neighbors have to be some very pissed off people the past two mornings!

 

[GIEGAR]

Thanks for reporting back about the Ascends Ty. Very glad to hear you're loving it so far.

Just wait until that Rythmik arrives and you get it locked in to the room. It will take everything to a whole new level. Without that high excursion, high power low bass to deal with, the Ascends will be able to play louder, cleaner from top to bottom.

Life will be much easier for the Pioneer AVR too, so perhaps reserve your judgement on it until then.

With respect to the DirecTV low volume levels; does the Pioneer have a facility to adjust the input level of individual inputs? If so, you could use that to "normalise" the volume levels.

 

[JohnnieB]

http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/2011/01/welcome-to-how-to-listen.html

I hope this link works, posting from my phone so, it's a crap shoot. If it doesn't, just google "Harmon Kardon How to Listen." Its a free software that can help you train yourself to recognize freq's or at least be in the ballpark. Its fun to mess with and educational. I won't tell you what level I got to.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Yeah GIEGAR, Im chomping at the bit to get that Rythmik going. I've even entertained the idea of talking to Ascend and coughing up another $400-$500 bucks to get the F15? I dunno? I don't really want to spend the extra money right now, and I believe the LV12R will make me plenty happy, but the thought has crossed my mind more than once!

On the Pioneer, Im not sure that it has the ability to do that? And really, its not a huge deal because I don't plan on listening via Directv on any kind of regular basis anyway. In fact, Im probably about to cancel my service with them. Im actually more of a CD guy anyway (unless Im playing for the kids or wife, which is often the case). My wife and kids do hook up their ipad's to the receiver and play either mp3's or Pandora, but I don't normally do that if Im just playing for me. Im simply good with using my PS3 to play CD's. I have a PS4 as well, but would you believe that its not able to play CD's??? Very disappointing! So anyway, I had about a two hour listening session this morning playing CD's. Some Audioslave, some Counting Crows, some Foo Fighters. Im VERY pleased with the sound, but I want that sub!!!!

JB, yes, the link works. I have to work again tonight but then I'll be off for a few and I'll check that software out maybe this weekend. Thanks for the link!

 

[GIEGAR]

Yeah GIEGAR, Im chomping at the bit to get that Rythmik going. I've even entertained the idea of talking to Ascend and coughing up another $400-$500 bucks to get the F15? I dunno? I don't really want to spend the extra money right now, and I believe the LV12R will make me plenty happy, but the thought has crossed my mind more than once!

Oh boy Ty, you'd better look to someone else to convincingly talk you out of a Rythmik F15, because I just love that sub!

Realistically though, the LV12R will knock your socks off. The sensible thing to do is pocket the $400-$500 and "save" it for a second one, if you feel it's needed later on.

But... perhaps the bride will like the the look/shape of the F15 more, and you won't feel as guilty about the extra spend?

Jeez I'm terrible...