Need help putting together new 5.1 system

Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
Nope, scratch my last statement about not being able to adjust the x-over on the receiver. I know what I need to do now. That is, I need to hook up my receiver to my tv with RCA cables so I can see the "OSD" on my tv and access more settings, as well as perform the mcacc, which I've never done. Hope I can find the mic that came with my receiver. I guess if I cant, I can probably order another one. Cant believe I never messed with any of this. I guess I originally just hooked it up the best I could and started listening, ignoring the manual and the settings and all that. Im my own worst enemy!
 
JohnnieB

JohnnieB

Senior Audioholic
Glad to see your getting it figured out. Its that period of discovery that's the most fun, enjoy it.
I was referring to the KS 401 HT bookshelves. According to the specs, their freq response range is 100hz-20khz. Don't quote me on the upper freq spec. You may get somewhere around 95hz with in room response. You should hear some improvement just getting it setup correctly.
I think you will like what you hear with the Ascends. Be sure to post updates.
Enjoy the forum.
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
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This week, Im planning on placing an order for those cmt 340's that you suggested. Also plan on ordering that BIC sub you suggested. Later in the year, I'll look at adding a center and some rear surrounds.
.
Hello Ty. I really like JohnnieB's recommendation of the Ascends too and reckon you've made a great choice with them. Your patience to build a system over time will yield a much better performing system in the long run. Just an alternate suggestion though that will allow you to step up a class (again!) in the sub department and still keep to a manageable budget, if you're interested (and it's not too late)...

You could get a pair of CBM-170 SE's for use as mains and a Rythmik Audio LV12R sub now (both currently on special) for $899 shipped for the bundle. This is $160 more up front than your current plan, but I believe you're getting the class leading 12" ported sub in the Rythmik and the 170's don't give a lot away in performance to the CMT-340 SE's. Later on, you can add the 340 SE(C) centre (fine with the 170's). Ultimately, add a pair of 340's for the mains and move the 170's to surround duty.

Here's a thread over on AVS from a while back where the OP went with the above Ascend/Rythmik combo: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1503481-recommend-me-some-speakers-please.html#post24047022. Check out his reaction in post 17... great stuff! :D He reported back later that they had expanded to a 5.1 system within 2 or 3 months.
 
JohnnieB

JohnnieB

Senior Audioholic
I would agree with GIEGAR. If it works for your budget, that is a pretty sweet deal on the combo.
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
My bad JB. I completely forgot that I told you what current speakers I was using.o_O Its been a wild/sleep deprived two weeks with the kids out of school for Christmas and all that. LOL. Anyway, thanks for the tips and anything like that that you can tell me. I need all the help I can get and yall have been great!

GIEGAR....thank you very, very much for the recommendation! Its nice that you guys just offer free advice like this trying to help a fellow out. Really appreciate the heck out of it. As good as the deal sounds that you've mentioned, I just cant do it right now. Im actually already pushing it by getting the BIC and the cmt 340's. Two weeks ago I ordered a 64 inch plasma Samsung, so Im literally tapped out. LOL Again, thanks a million for your input!!!
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
JB, I've got a few questions. In a previous comment you said: "Typically you would want to set crossover about one octave above rated response."

Im still not comprehending real good. I guess its going to take some time for things to start to click in my head. So based on your statement above, once I hook up the cmt-340's and the BIC sub, what will I want my crossover to be set at?

Question #2, what is the general rule on where to set the volume control on the sub? Is that just something I'll need to tinker with to see what sounds right?

Question #3, from looking at pics of the back of the sub, there is a switch for either digital 5.1,6.1, or 7.1, or pro-logic. What do I put that setting on?

Question #4, seeing that I don't have the funds at this time to purchase a center speaker to go with my two mains, what should I do? Should I just completely do away with old kenwood center? If so, then will I listen to everything in stereo? And if Im listening to everything in stereo, what is the point of moving my current kenwood front left and right's to the rear? I guess my question is what format will I most likely be using to watch movies and stuff like that if I don't have a center speaker? All these dang formats confuse the heck out of me anyway, and Im extra confused if I don't have a center. I just don't get it.
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
GIEGAR....thank you very, very much for the recommendation! Its nice that you guys just offer free advice like this trying to help a fellow out. Really appreciate the heck out of it. As good as the deal sounds that you've mentioned, I just cant do it right now. Im actually already pushing it by getting the BIC and the cmt 340's. Two weeks ago I ordered a 64 inch plasma Samsung, so Im literally tapped out. LOL Again, thanks a million for your input!!!
No worries!

Understood with respect to the cash flow... sometimes it's all too easy for us to spend other people's money. :D
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
Not JB, but perhaps I can help out.
JB, I've got a few questions. In a previous comment you said: "Typically you would want to set crossover about one octave above rated response."

Im still not comprehending real good. I guess its going to take some time for things to start to click in my head. So based on your statement above, once I hook up the cmt-340's and the BIC sub, what will I want my crossover to be set at?
The 340's have a published typical in room low frequency roll-off of 45Hz (-3dB). An octave is a doubling of audio frequency, so 90Hz is indicated. In reality any crossover in the range of 80Hz - 100Hz would probably be fine. At the outset, you might find you want to fiddle and experiment with crossover frequencies, but after a few weeks that will pass and you'll settle on something and forget about it. ;)

Question #2, what is the general rule on where to set the volume control on the sub? Is that just something I'll need to tinker with to see what sounds right?
It varies from sub to sub, but generally with an analog volume control (really variable gain) they're bottom end loaded (not linear), so a starting point around "9 o'clock" is probably OK. When the auto setup is run, the AVR will then unjust the sub output level trim to achieve a level balance across all speakers at the main listening position. I personally like to see the sub volume control fairly low and the AVR's reported sub level trims into negative territory (say -6dB), so I know the system has plenty in reserve.

Question #3, from looking at pics of the back of the sub, there is a switch for either digital 5.1,6.1, or 7.1, or pro-logic. What do I put that setting on?
This is a new one on me! :oops:

It might be some legacy adjustment to the LFE channel from the early days of Dolby Digital and DTS. No modern sub that I'm aware of has such a switch. This should be taken care of by the AVR these days, so you'd need to determine which setting does nothing or if it can be bypassed. The BIC website has some quite dated info, so I suspect their user manuals might be dated too. If someone in the know here can't answer your question, it might be an idea to contact BIC tech support after the sub arrives.

Question #4, seeing that I don't have the funds at this time to purchase a center speaker to go with my two mains, what should I do? Should I just completely do away with old kenwood center? If so, then will I listen to everything in stereo? And if Im listening to everything in stereo, what is the point of moving my current kenwood front left and right's to the rear? I guess my question is what format will I most likely be using to watch movies and stuff like that if I don't have a center speaker? All these dang formats confuse the heck out of me anyway, and Im extra confused if I don't have a center. I just don't get it.
I'd tend to think you'd leave out the Kenwood centre because it'll probably "hold back" the front stage. There's nothing wrong with experimenting with it first though.

The Pioneer will either detect you have no centre channel or you'll tell it somewhere in the setup menu. Then, on any native multichannel content, the magic of DSP will fold any centre channel audio signal into the main L & R channels for playback. This way you'll have a "phantom" centre channel. This will work quite well on or near the main listening axis (at the sweet spot), but may tend to collapse towards the closest speaker if you move too far off-axis.

Hope that helps! :)
 
JohnnieB

JohnnieB

Senior Audioholic
Hey Ty, I work long hours 14-15 hr shifts, nights, so my schedule is a bit screwy. GIEGAR gave you some good info. ;)
Something you may not have noticed, Ascend has a 45 day package deal, "Extender purchase plan". In essence, if you buy the next piece (speaker/sub) within 45 days, you still get the package discount. You should call Ascend and inquire about this. You may or may not be able to take advantage of this, but it's worth checking into. The folks at Ascend are quite friendly and very helpful, great customer service. Where I'm going with this is, it may help ease the burden of stretching your budget.
Here's another link that may help your understanding of setting x-over and system setup.
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-setup/bass-management-basics-2013-settings-made-simple
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
Okay GIEGAR, thanks a lot. No doubt I'll be referring back to your last comment again and again once Im hooking up! Lots of information there. I don't understand it all right now but I think once I start hooking up and start tinkering with things your information will become more clear to me. Really appreciate it!!!

JB, I understand about the work schedule. I too work nights, about 13 hour shifts. This, along with three kids under the age of 8 and a wife who works days, makes for a "screwy" schedule as well! LOL. Im probably going to need to talk to Ascend and see what they say. I ordered the mains yesterday morning, so Im not sure if they would extend the package deal to me since I've already ordered? We shall see. Thanks as always for the info and the link. I'll be sure to check it out tonight!

Next problem......I looked everywhere yesterday for the mic that came with my receiver and of course I couldn't find it. What a bummer. Do either of you know off the top of your head if I would need to order a new one from pioneer, or would something else work? I looked on Pioneer's website and cant find a mic for my receiver (vsx-522-k). I do see one for a vsx-521-k, but not a 522. Any suggestions? Perhaps they are interchangeable between the 521 and the 522?

http://parts.pioneerelectronics.com/part.asp?productNum=APM7008
 
JohnnieB

JohnnieB

Senior Audioholic
Quick search on flea bay "mcacc mic" came up with 5 listings. Range from $20-$35. Don't know if they are compatible. You may have to contact pioneer.
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
"flea bay"...LOL.

I went back to Pioneer's website and found the mic that goes with my receiver. I ordered it....shipping cost as much as the mic (damn them). Not only that, but its on back order as well. Oh well, I need the mic so it will be okay. Just hope it doesn't take two months before it gets here.
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
Okay guys, I've ordered the 340 mains, the BIC sub, the mcacc mic, some 14AWG speaker wire, and a new Mediabridge subwoofer cable (hope this is a good choice), and my new TV should be here by the end of the week. Im pumped! I should be leaving you guys alone for a few days until I get my new equipment. At that point, I'll do my best to not bother yall too much but Im sure I'll need more help and advice in the coming weeks. Thank you all VERY much for the help and patience you guys have sent my way thus far. I really appreciate it. For now Im just waiting on the delivery man! :D
 
G

GIEGAR

Full Audioholic
^ ^ Glad you got the mic sorted out Ty.

Regarding Ascend, I doubt it's mandatory to "declare" your intentions up front to use the Extender Plan. You just need to place your next order within 45 days of receiving your first purchase to. Ascend's customer service is legendary. (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/purchase/expurchplan.html)

If you time the order right, you can have the cost hit your credit card the day after the statement is generated, so you'll effectively have up to 55 days interest free to pay it off.

Love to see you with the Rythmik!

Edit: Whoops, too slow off the mark!
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
LOL. Yeah, I think the Rythmik will simply be too much money for me, even 45-55 days from now. If I add more, it will either be to get a center, or the cbm-170's for surrounds. Just cant do 550-600 bucks right now. While we are on this subject, would you recommend I get the surrounds or the center next? I think JB said the other day that the surrounds would be a better fit for now. Am I correct?


This extender purchase plan will count towards the two surrounds correct? They are on sell right now for 298/pair.
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
Either way GIEGAR, I usually go on a bit of a spending spree this time every year. If nothing else, I think I'll be very satisfied with my new mains and the BIC for now. Then, next year around this time, I can add in that Rythmik (or perhaps even something better with yall's suggestions), maybe a new receiver, and who knows what else depending on how much extra money I have lying around at that time. But seeing that I have low quality 15 year old kenwoods right now, I think Im going to be stoked with my new purchase, don't you?
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
AHH, GIEGAR!!!! I just canceled my BIC order. You got me second guessing my decision. Plus, I read that thread you gave the link to about the Rythmik. I REALLY WANT THAT SUB! Not sure if I can swing it or not. They are out of stock anyway until mid Feb. If I cant swing the deal, then I'll go back and order the BIC I guess. Oh man, the bug has bit, and its bit hard!!!
 
JohnnieB

JohnnieB

Senior Audioholic
Congrats Ty. Ascend doesn't bill you until they ship. With the sub on back order that might buy you a few days as well. I think that was a good choice. Be waiting to hear your thoughts on the sound when you get em hooked up. Heck I'm probably almost as excited as you are. :D
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
So you guys think the Rythmik over the BIC will be well worth the 300+ bucks its going to cost in difference? My wife is going to kill me. I went into this looking to spend 500-600 bucks, now if I get the Rythmik Im in over a 1,000. If you guys really think its worth it to get the Rythmik Im going to try and swing it. If the change wont be that drastic, I might go ahead with the BIC. What da ya say? Final answer...BIC for 188 bucks, or Rythmik for somewhere around 500-550 bucks? C'mon guys, tell me what I need to hear, not what I want to hear. Plus, looking at the back of that Rythmik, Im intimidated. You know if I get that thing its going to mean more questions on how to hook it up properly, right?
 
Ty Wayne

Ty Wayne

Audioholic
Alright, I've been reading more reviews on the LV12R. If I have to hit the wife over the head to get it that's what I'll do.;) Its all about that bass baby!

P.S.
Ascend just emailed me back and told me that I am eligible for the 45 day extender! Thx guys!
 
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