Need help putting together new 5.1 system

[Ty Wayne]

Hello, Im VERY new to audio and was hoping I could find some help by someone and learn some things. Im simply wanting to upgrade to a nice surround sound system for about a 15 x 18 room. Im dealing with a 5.1 system for this room. I've been looking at speakers and don't have a large budget. The first thing that concerns me is the quality and ability of my current receiver. I feel like I may be getting ahead of myself by looking for new speakers but this bothers me because my receiver is just a couple of years old. But if I need a new one then I need a new one. Just looking for honest advice.

My current receiver (that I wish I'd never bought):
Pioneer VSX-522-K 400W 5-Channel


Im wanting to by all new speakers....front left and right, one center, two surrounds, and a new subwoofer.

Was looking at getting two of these for my front left and right:
Sony SSF-5000 Floorstanding 3-way Speaker

Assuming that I need to keep the center speaker the same brand as the floor speakers (not sure about that), I was looking at this for my center:
Sony SSCS8 2-Way 3-Driver Center


I picked out this for my subwoofer:
Polk Audio PSW10 10-Inch Powered Subwoofer


For my two rear surround speakers, I was looking at these:
Bose 161 Speaker System

Or these:
Klipsch Synergy S-10 Premium WDST Surround Speakers


Now, with the receiver that I currently have, will this work okay? Or is there any other reason anyone can tell me why I might be wasting my money and going about this the wrong way? I only have a budget of about 600 bucks right now. But if I'd be better off putting my system together differently, then I could slowly add piece by piece over the next year and spend around a 1,000 to 1,500 bucks. Got three girls, a wife, and a dog, so I don't have a lot of money lying around if you know what I mean! Thanks for any help or advice you might be able to give me.

 

[Ty Wayne]

So I guess the big question is whether or not my receiver is good enough to give me a quality sound with these speakers I've mentioned.

I simply do not understand the watts and ohms and all that. I mean, the two Sony floor speakers are 150 watt speakers (8 ohm, 88 db) but my receiver is only 400 watts. I read one place and it says the receiver is "140 watts x 5". I read another place and it says its "output wattage is 80 watts". I just don't understand all of this. Very confusing to me. I just need to know if these better Sony floor speakers will do okay with my crap receiver or if Im wasting my time with it. Please help.

 

[JohnnieB]

"Waste of time" is subjective. You're family is more important than your sound system. It sounds like you have your priorities straight. For the record, speakers have the most influence on sound quality, this is where you don't want to skimp.

According to Pioneer your receiver puts out 80wpc into 8 ohms. The 140wpc rating is into 6 ohms.
The Sony are rated at 150 watts, 8 ohm. This is peak or max. You can cut max power handling in half and get an idea of RMS. In this case it's 75. Your receiver would run these just fine.
You are correct, the front three should ideally be of the same brand and series speaker to keep the sound stage uniform. The rear surrounds can be something else, although Bose would not be on my list. The Polk sub will not do much at 100 watts, you can do better for not much more money.
You mentioned buying a piece at a time to increase your overall budget. This would be a good option. You can get by without a center or surrounds if you get better speakers for the fronts.
To be clear on this, ideally, you should listen to speakers before you buy. Not every speaker sounds the same, it depends on your personal taste. That being said...here's one opinion.

Front sound stage:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cmt340m/cmt340m.html

Sub:
http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F12-475-Watt-Subwoofer/dp/B0015A8Y5M/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1420196680&sr=1-7&keywords=subwoofer

Rears:
http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/cbm170/cbm170.html

The Ascends have a great sensitivity rating, 92db, which means even a small receiver will power them very well.

Total speaker package price, $1100 and can be bought in stages.

You could start with the CMT 340's, then get the sub, then the rears. Fit the center in there when finances allow or save it for last, it matters not. The 340's should image well enough with just the front two until you get the center.

You could upgrade your receiver to a more full featured model sometime down the road, and the speakers have enough power handling capability to keep up.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hello Ty and welcome to the forum. JB suggestions are solid, but to maximize your SQ (sound quality) on a tight budget my recommendation are to keep any existing speakers and use them for surround duty.
I would highly suggest VS buying anything Polk, especially budget Polk product - you can do so much better than that.

Spend the money toward new Left/Center/Right and new sub. My budget, but still good speakers to go to are currently these two:
a) Modified Pioneer bookshelves from here: http://philharmonicaudio.com/aa.html
b) http://www.wavecrestaudio.com/products/hvl-1-two-way-loudspeaker-pair

Sub: http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-sub-1200-12-120-watt-powered-subwoofer--300-629

 

[JohnnieB]

on a tight budget my recommendation are to keep any existing speakers and use them for surround duty.

Good point. Your receiver will never be a loss either. I took a REALLY cheap Pioneer HTIB, $120 new, and moved it into the bedroom.

Once the bug bites, there's no cure.

 

[zieglj01]

My current receiver (that I wish I'd never bought):
Pioneer VSX-522-K 400W 5-Channel

Im wanting to by all new speakers....front left and right, one center, two surrounds, and a new subwoofer.

Was looking at getting two of these for my front left and right:
Sony SSF-5000 Floorstanding 3-way Speaker

Assuming that I need to keep the center speaker the same brand as the floor speakers (not sure about that), I was looking at this for my center:
Sony SSCS8 2-Way 3-Driver Center

I picked out this for my subwoofer:
Polk Audio PSW10 10-Inch Powered Subwoofer

For my two rear surround speakers, I was looking at these:
Bose 161 Speaker System

Welcome to As the Audio World Turns!

Your receiver is fine/decent - do not get too caught up in the watts thing,
the receiver will drive a lot of speakers out there period.

From your list on a budget, the only thing I would prefer is the Sony Core center.
I am no fan of their SS series line - they are weak and thin sounding.

The Sony Core series speakers are a good clean, clear step above - and are more
refined, smooth and balanced with good detail and definition.

With a sub, the Core bookshelf speakers will be overall better than the SS towers.
The center you have listed will mate with the bookshelf
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/sony-core-series-5-3-way-bookshelf-speakers-pair/5721014.p?id=1219148662428&skuId=5721014

As recommended above, I would take the Dayton sub over that Polk sub

I would skip the Bose for surrounds - and go with the Emptek E3b speakers,
a good price and can help with your budget
http://emptek.com/e3b_h.php

My preferred option is the Philharmonic AA speakers [listed above] - and then
would be the Sony Core series speakers. Either one is a winner.

Your call - and enjoy the Audio adventure.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Wow. Thank you guys sooo much for your time and recommendations. Im going to keep looking at all of your suggestions and come up with a plan to add what I can when money allows. So glad I came here instead of just spending 500 bucks on the stuff I was originally looking at.

Also, this may sound dumb, but I never even thought about using existing speakers for the rears. My current speakers are some Kenwoods that came with a home theater system in a box about 15 years ago! Not sure what quality they are but I figure they are pretty poor. I don't even remember how much I originally spent on the system back in the day. The front left and right are KS-401HT bookshelf's. So if Im understanding correctly, you are telling me to use these for the rears until I can purchase new ones?

Thanks so much again to each of you!

 

[zieglj01]

The front left and right are KS-401HT bookshelf's. So if Im understanding correctly, you are telling me to use these for the rears until I can purchase new ones?

Yes, you can use them as surrounds if you desire.

 

[herbu]

So if Im understanding correctly, you are telling me to use these for the rears until I can purchase new ones?

For TV/Movie surround sound, the surround speakers get mostly just "effects"... door closing, car horn, gun shot, plane fly by, etc. That is why just about any speaker would be OK to start. Your front Left/Center/Right and Sub are MUCH more important. Upgrading your surrounds can be at the bottom of your list of things to do.

There is one other use for your surrounds. Most audiophiles listen to most music in stereo, with only the front L/R speakers. But sometimes with a bunch of people, you want to fill the room with music, but not be too loud near your L/R and too soft at the other end of the room. Most receivers have an All Channel Stereo mode. With this, all your left speakers, both front and surround, get the left stereo channel. And all your right speakers, both front and surround, get the right stereo channel. This is usually an infrequent occurance, and would not change your priorities of giving your fronts the most attention and $ first.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Awesome. Thanks for the tips guys! So I feel pretty good about focusing on new front left and right speakers at this point, then moving towards a subwoofer after that. Will definitely be using my old Kenwood's for the rears until I get new surrounds later down the road.

In the very early stages of this exploration, when looking at the first recommendation in the first reply from JB (the cmt-340's), I realize that I have no idea whatsoever on how to wire these speakers up to whats called "5 way binding posts, bi-wire ready".. LOL. Im assuming most of the better speakers will be similar to this so Im going to need to learn about these connections. Im sure there is a thread about this somewhere on the forum so Im going to go look for that. If I cant find the answer by looking around on the forum I'll come back here and maybe you guys can point me in the right direction? Thanks a lot.

Loving the advice and tips!

 

[Ty Wayne]

So okay, the extra terminals on the speakers just allow for bi-wiring or bi-amping, but unless Im mistaken, this shouldn't be a big deal to me. I can just put some banana plugs on my wires and hook up to two of the four binding posts while ignoring the other two posts on the speakers. Is this correct?

 

[zieglj01]

So okay, the extra terminals on the speakers just allow for bi-wiring or bi-amping, but unless Im mistaken, this shouldn't be a big deal to me. I can just put some banana plugs on my wires and hook up to two of the four binding posts while ignoring the other two posts on the speakers. Is this correct?

Yes, leave the jumpers on - and hook up to one set.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Yes, leave the jumpers on - and hook up to one set.

def keep the jumpers one. Use 12-14 awg and connect using ether raw wire or get a banana plugs.

 

[Ty Wayne]

Hey guys, what are the extra connections for on the back of those subwoofers? I cant see a good enough pic on the BIC to read what they are but on the Deyton it says hi level input's and output's. What is this? Will I ever use these connections for anything in my basic setup? Also, will I hook up either of these subwoofers the same way I currently do with my old Kenwood simply by plugging into the "line in"?

Im just getting a bit anxious because I want this nice stuff yall have suggested but Im worried Im going to get something that Im too dumb to hook up! LOL. I mean, I don't even understand most of the functions on my bottom of the line receiver! I just don't want to get in over my head.

 

[JohnnieB]

The two sets of speaker wire terminals on the back of the sub, are for high level input/output connections. These are there so you can hook up to the sub, if you did not have a sub out on your receiver. The speakers would be hooked to the terminals, the sub would play the lower frequencies, depending on where you have the crossover set on the sub. The rest, it would then send to your speakers.
You however have a sub, line level out. You are correct in thinking that you do not need these connections. Just run your cable from the receiver sub out into the sub in. You can then use either the crossover in your receiver or the one on the sub, to set your crossover point.
By the way I see the BIC is a couple bucks cheaper at Parts Express.
http://www.parts-express.com/bic-formula-f-12-12-subwoofer-475-watts--303-436?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=pla

 

[Ty Wayne]

Great. Thanks a million JB!

 

[Ty Wayne]

By the way JB, I don't understand how the crossover works. I don't understand how to properly set the crossover setting on my sub, or if I even need to mess with it if the receiver is handling it. How does this work and how do I know if I need to adjust the crossover on the sub or within the receiver? I've never understood the crossover, how it works, or where and how to adjust it. If this isn't the proper place to discuss this issue, could you point me to the right place? I've done some searching on the forum but I've not found the basic answers Im looking for. Everything seems to be way over my head. LOL

 

[Ty Wayne]

Okay, so I found some helpful advice in the advice sticky on the forum. Im understanding a little bit better, plus some of the tips are helping know what settings to mess with. In the past, I've just been reluctant to mess with many settings because I was afraid I would change something that I wouldnt be able to fix. Tonight I've been messing with all kinds of stuff after reading some of the articles. For the most part, my current setup seems to be pretty ignorant proof. Im tweaking some things like the crossover control on my sub and the LFE settings on my receiver. Im just making it sound like I think it should by trying different things. If I mess it up and cant fix it, then I'll come back and beg you guys to help me fix it!

 

[JohnnieB]

So you have discovered the blue link bar at the top of the page, yes? Home theatre setup-subwoofer setup. Not sure if that's what you meant by "sticky". A ton of good info all over this forum.

Depending on your speakers, your room acoustics and, the rate your crossover drops off, your crossover point may change. The default crossover on your receiver is 100hz. This also happens to be the lowest rated freq for those speakers. Typically you would want to set crossover about one octave above rated response. I would leave x-over on receiver at 100, sub x-over (not volume) all the way up, and run mcacc. From there, work with speaker placement as a means of smoothing the sound out. If you decide to up the x-over on your receiver to 120hz, your sub will already be set. Just remember to turn down the volume before making any changes. It makes it tough to do A/B comparisons, but until you get to the point of having a good idea of what's going to happen when you make changes, it's the safest route.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_crossover

 

[Ty Wayne]

Yes, that's what I was referring to when I said "sticky". I agree, good info.

When you said: "This also happens to be the lowest rated freq for those speakers", which speakers were you referring to JB?

This week, Im planning on placing an order for those cmt 340's that you suggested. Also plan on ordering that BIC sub you suggested. Later in the year, I'll look at adding a center and some rear surrounds.

As far as my receiver goes, I've not yet found how to turn up the x-over on it. It has an LFE setting I can tinker with, but this isn't the same as turning up or down the x-over is it? I don't guess it matters. If it defaults to a 100hz like you said, Im good with just making the adjustments you mentioned and trying that out. Thanks again for the help and info!