SVS PB-2000 and SB-2000 Subwoofers Preview

[Alex2507]

identifying the performance advantage that lends itself to this musicality.

I'm thinking it might be in a number they call Q or in a graph that might be called transient response. It might have to do with that ripple. I need somebody that knows what I'm talking about because I don't. If anything mike should be able to provide us with that. The answer you seek may lie in that direction.

 

[Steve81]

I'm thinking it might be in a number they call Q or in a graph that might be called transient response. It might have to do with that ripple. I need somebody that knows what I'm talking about because I don't. If anything mike should be able to provide us with that. The answer you seek may lie in that direction.

I won't claim to know what I'm talking about, but I can give you some idea's:

Qtc (system Q) relates to sealed enclosures; in this case, I'm modeling "driver X", which yields a Qtc of 0.5 (overdamped) in a 157 liter cabinet, a Qtc of 0.707 (critically damped) in a 56 liter cabinet, and a Qtc of 1.0 (underdamped) in a 24 liter cabinet.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

I won't claim to know what I'm talking about, but I can give you some idea's:

Qtc (system Q) relates to sealed enclosures; in this case, I'm modeling "driver X", which yields a Qtc of 0.5 (overdamped) in a 157 liter cabinet, a Qtc of 0.707 (critically damped) in a 56 liter cabinet, and a Qtc of 1.0 (underdamped) in a 24 liter cabinet.

So, I'm not sure I adequately understand step response as indicated in the bottom 3 graphs. What are the labels, i.e. what's being measured in those graphs?

In the top 3, we see a typical sealed response with a more shallow low frequency roll-off than it's ported brethren (though, assuming a larger cabinet and proper design, the ported sub will not start rolling off until much lower).

 

[Steve81]

So, I'm not sure I adequately understand step response as indicated in the bottom 3 graphs. What are the labels, i.e. what's being measured in those graphs?

Sound pressure vs time.

(though, assuming a larger cabinet and proper design, the ported sub will not start rolling off until much lower).

Indeed. Same driver in a ported box (tuned to 22Hz, 111L)

Note that step response does depend on frequency response; the ported box has much more output down low, which takes time to settle.

 

[mike c]

i never understood these technical stuff. but i think i like the sealed for music for two reasons:
1) it's got a limited audible bandwidth (no low bass) and thus lesser issues with the room
2) it's got a particular "sealed sub distortion" that i'm just used to.

normally, the no-distortion thing should be = accurate = better for music. the graphs also prove that there is indeed less distortion in the midbass with the ported subs.
the advantage of the very low distortion of the ported subs, they never ever muffled the lyrics or dialogue even when i was playing 4 ultras at 12db hot.

 

[ReUpRo]

Just curious, do any of you have hugely damped rooms? Room response in low bass frequencies is guaranteed to hold well into the 300ms range for an averaged room (15x25ft +/-) without serious bass traping.

That long of a decay time guarantees poor clarity in bass and this is often attributed to slow vs fast bass or sealed vs ported sub.

Sometimes not having a sub excite the 20-35Hz harmonics or less energetically excite the 10-25Hz harmonics is a serendipitous situation unbeknownst to the buyer.

Anyone complaining about the poor quality of bass clarity must look at waterfall plus or spectral decay plots for their listening situation.

 

[Kruz]

Just pulled the trigger on a SB-2000 with Sonicboomaudio (Canadian distributor of SVS). Really look forward to hearing this sub. Thanks to audioholic's review of SVS products and everyone's recommendations on this forum!

 

[3db]

Just curious, do any of you have hugely damped rooms? Room response in low bass frequencies is guaranteed to hold well into the 300ms range for an averaged room (15x25ft +/-) without serious bass traping.

That long of a decay time guarantees poor clarity in bass and this is often attributed to slow vs fast bass or sealed vs ported sub.

Sometimes not having a sub excite the 20-35Hz harmonics or less energetically excite the 10-25Hz harmonics is a serendipitous situation unbeknownst to the buyer.

Anyone complaining about the poor quality of bass clarity must look at waterfall plus or spectral decay plots for their listening situation.

Not a lot of emphasis has been put on room acoustic and treatments when people were talking about which sub is better. I maybe wrong but I think a sub is even more dependent on room acoustics than a speaker.

 

[fuzz092888]

Not a lot of emphasis has been put on room acoustic and treatments when people were talking about which sub is better. I maybe wrong but I think a sub is even more dependent on room acoustics than a speaker.

It is. IIRC, it is largely due to the length of the frequencies and the excitation of room resonances. It also has to do with the fact that as a subwoofer driver or woofer driver creates a low frequency wave, say 40hz, by the time the driver creates a full wavelength the wave has already reflected off a wall or something else and is bouncing around the room. This is where big nulls or big boosts can occur depending on how the waves are reflecting, which is why proper placement and room treatments can do as much or more than simply EQ'ing the subwoofer. Especially where reverberation time is concerned (RT60).

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Just curious, do any of you have hugely damped rooms? Room response in low bass frequencies is guaranteed to hold well into the 300ms range for an averaged room (15x25ft +/-) without serious bass traping.

That long of a decay time guarantees poor clarity in bass and this is often attributed to slow vs fast bass or sealed vs ported sub.

Sometimes not having a sub excite the 20-35Hz harmonics or less energetically excite the 10-25Hz harmonics is a serendipitous situation unbeknownst to the buyer.

Anyone complaining about the poor quality of bass clarity must look at waterfall plus or spectral decay plots for their listening situation.

Here's an old measurement from my SVS PB12-NSD at a single measurement point (Main Listening Position). I've made a few changes to the room since, but nothing that should affect it substantially.


You can see that I'm pretty well under 180ms right up until the tuning frequency. I attribute most of that to a large, open, and asymmetrical room. My acoustic treatments are not substantial enough to have much effect in the bass region.

 

[Bulldawg165]

When can we expect an official review of either of these subs at audioholics?

 

[Muzykant]

Got my SB-2000 yesterday for a 2.1 music setup in the living room. The speakers are rather smallish and on the cheap side - Def Tech SM-55s, but I like their sound. They are getting 150 watts per channel from Emotiva amp.

So far I am very impressed with this sub's low end extension, especially given that it has to deal with 5000+ cubic feet area. As of now, I am less impressed with its mid bass, which sounds weaker in comparison (overly damped?). I also heard some distortion in the upper bass (past 100 Hz) even at low to moderate volume when I set the crossover high. I will have to verify it tomorrow with other recordings.

I will keep on breaking it in and will try to report back later.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Got my SB-2000 yesterday for a 2.1 music setup in the living room. The speakers are rather smallish and on the cheap side - Def Tech SM-55s, but I like their sound. They are getting 150 watts per channel from Emotiva amp.

So far I am very impressed with this sub's low end extension, especially given that it has to deal with 5000+ cubic feet area. As of now, I am less impressed with its mid bass, which sounds weaker in comparison (overly damped?). I also heard some distortion in the upper bass (past 100 Hz) even at low to moderate volume when I set the crossover high. I will have to verify it tomorrow with other recordings.

I will keep on breaking it in and will try to report back later.

With SVSs digital amplification and signal processing, you should not be getting any distortion. I'd contact SVS with the details on your setup and have them help you out.

 

[Muzykant]

Thanks for your response! The distortion was probably recording-specific, as playing test tones revealed not a trace of it today. Also found that mid bass problem is most likely due to the room having a large null centered around 50 Hz. I am still adjusting things and getting used to the sound.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Thanks for your response! The distortion was probably recording-specific, as playing test tones revealed not a trace of it today. Also found that mid bass problem is most likely due to the room having a large null centered around 50 Hz. I am still adjusting things and getting used to the sound.

Yep, 50hz is definitely in that "punch" frequency that folks like. Don't forget to check out the Audioholics sub placement article and video for tips: Subwoofer Placement Guide: Finding the Optimal Location for Best Sound | Audioholics

 

[Muzykant]

Yep, 50hz is definitely in that "punch" frequency that folks like. Don't forget to check out the Audioholics sub placement article and video for tips: Subwoofer Placement Guide: Finding the Optimal Location for Best Sound | Audioholics

Thank you, I came across that video before. Funny thing, the sub sits in the worst position possible - on a shelf in the middle of the wall! And it still produces more output than I ever need. When my GF is done installing her dance floor, I'll be moving the sub to the floor where it belongs, possibly to the corner.

 

[Marshall_Guthrie]

Thank you, I came across that video before. Funny thing, the sub sits in the worst position possible - on a shelf in the middle of the wall! And it still produces more output than I ever need. When my GF is done installing her dance floor, I'll be moving the sub to the floor where it belongs, possibly to the corner.

Sounds like quite the setup you'll have. Yes, the theory behind corner placement is that you'll get max output and excite all room modes equally, which you can then even out with EQ in a modern receiver.

 

[Muzykant]

Hi guys, sorry to bother you again in this thread, but perhaps you can help me understand something. I recently purchased SB-2000 and had a few days to listen to it and evaluate. I now moved it to the floor, about 2 feet from the left corner of a 5000+ cubic feet room. I absolutely love it! I now have a good balance of low, mid and high bass in majority of listening locations. What I don't understand is this: why does this sub dig deeper in this extra large room than my SB-13 Ultra in a 3000 cubic feet theater room? Shouldn't it be the other way around, given the difference in driver size, enclosure volume and room size? SB-2000 plays well into the low teens, while Ultra stops producing sound pressure (despite moving quite a bit) at around 17 Hz. Above 30 Hz I would probably prefer the Ultra, but below that SB-2000 has a less steep roll-off than the Ultra, so the ultra low bass balance is better. Can this be attributed to room acoustics? Neither of the subs have had any equalization done to them.

 

[Kruz]

This might have already been posted but just found a great link comparing the SB and PB 2000:

SVS PB-2000 and SB-2000 Subwoofers Reviewed

Thought some might be interested.

 

[mychaelp]

I own a SVS sub that's now 7 years old. I love it, except I've never been able to figure out the "phase dial". It's a dial rather than a switch that I was used to. Seems it would be either in phase or out of phase, not a rotating dial, so I have no idea how to set it perfectly. I just keep in all the way to the end that gives me the best sound to my ears.
That said; the sub is great for movies, not so tight bass though for drums. Be sure to check their site as they have some outlet type items with a scratch that you can save $50 or so as I did.