Yamaha or Denon for build quality and audio quality

[3db]

Yamaha & HK seem to put some limits on their 5CH & 7CH outputs, but their 2CH outputs are good.

Power Output 2CH 8 ohms/ 2CH 4 ohms/ 5CH 8 ohms:

$1200 Denon 3312- 143.3/225.5/103W
$1200 Yamaha 1020- 129.2/173.0/73.2W
$1000 HK 3700- 170.2/280.4/40.6W

$580 Denon 1913- 117.7/151.1/81.7W
$550 Yamaha 573- 111.4/126.2/24.9W
$450 Yamaha 473- 96.5/143.2/Protection mode
$350 Denon 1612- 110.3/150.7/78.1W

So even a $350 Denon outputs more power x 5CH than both the $1200 Yamaha & $1,000 HK AVR.

For 2Ch, HK is pretty great. But the 5Ch (40W) and 7Ch (33W) really suck.

Harman likes to advertise their Logic7 DSP, which is like 7CH Stereo mode. But @ 33WPC x 7Ch, that might not cut it if your volume is even a little high and/or speakers are 4 ohms/low sensitivity, etc.

Like I said, the power delivery is severly limited because of Yamaha's overly aggressive protection circuit. Home Theater Magazine (RIP) has mentioned that fact numerous times in their reviews. Disable the protection circuit in Yamaha and good luck to a $350 Denon trying to out muscle a $1200 Yamaha. It won't happen.

 

[PENG]

Like I said, the power delivery is severly limited because of Yamaha's overly aggressive protection circuit. Home Theater Magazine (RIP) has mentioned that fact numerous times in their reviews. Disable the protection circuit in Yamaha and good luck to a $350 Denon trying to out muscle a $1200 Yamaha. It won't happen.

I said they were in par. Short of using the same words, I think there is consensus.

Nothing wrong with more aggressive protective circuit either because in real life that should not be a problem except for ediots but then idiots need to be idiot proof anyway. It may even help them in living up to their "most reliable" reputation.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yamaha has better build quality and reliability, the Denon AVRs are outsourced through the Sherwood/Inkel factory...

Just my $0.05...

A friend of mine who is a custom installer/ dealer also seem to prefer Yamaha over Denon & other makes.

But I love Denon Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which is not the same as Yamaha Adaptive Dynamic Range Control.

 

[3db]

I said they were in par. Short of using the same words, I think there is consensus.

Nothing wrong with more aggressive protective circuit either because in real life that should not be a problem except for ediots but then idiots need to be idiot proof anyway. It may even help them in living up to their "most reliable" reputation.

Yo man!!! Not sure why you chose to quote my last post as a response. Seems out of place. I was responding to AciDefTechGuy's assertions of a $350 Denon (entry level receveir) out muscling a Yamaha mid line receiver.

But I can assure you that an entry level Denon will not out muscle a $1200 Yamaha with the circuit protection disabled. It just won't happen. It be the same as me having the likelyhood of dating Penelope Cruise. Oh yeah... A snowball has a better chance of getting thru hell then even getting her cell phone number.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I was responding to AciDefTechGuy's assertions of a $350 Denon (entry level receveir) out muscling a Yamaha mid line receiver.
But I can assure you that an entry level Denon will not out muscle a $1200 Yamaha with the circuit protection disabled.

I agree.

But my point is that you CANNOT disable the circuit protection.

The point is that if you use 7Ch Stereo Mode and each speaker requires 75W, the $350 Denon will NOT shut down, but the $1200 Yamaha will shut down due to the protection circuit.

But sure, in a world where you could actually disable the circuit protection by pressing a button, the $1200 Yamaha should output more than a $350 Denon.

 

[M Code]

A friend of mine who is a custom installer/ dealer also seem to prefer Yamaha over Denon & other makes.

But I love Denon Audyssey Dynamic EQ, which is not the same as Yamaha Adaptive Dynamic Range Control.

Turn OFF the Audyssey modes, then take a listen...
Assuming you have high, quality/resolution loudspeakers and listen to the clarity/detail..
Most likely you will keep them OFF...

Just my $0.05...

 

[RichB]

Turn OFF the Audyssey modes, then take a listen...
Assuming you have high, quality/resolution loudspeakers and listen to the clarity/detail..
Most likely you will keep them OFF...

Just my $0.05...

This is my experience.
Attaching the BDP-105 directly to my amp has produced the most detailed best sound I have heard in my system.

I have also had an opportunity to compare the BDP-105 through a fully balanced analog preamp and connected to the Marantz AV8801 7.1 analog inputs (pure direct) using an XLR switch.
This is essentially a comparisson between the signal path and volume controls.
They were very similar any I had to listen carefully, but the analog balanced preamp was cleaner and more detailed.

(Yes, I volume matched )

- Rich

 

[PENG]

Yo man!!! Not sure why you chose to quote my last post as a response. Seems out of place. I was responding to AciDefTechGuy's assertions of a $350 Denon (entry level receveir) out muscling a Yamaha mid line receiver.

But I can assure you that an entry level Denon will not out muscle a $1200 Yamaha with the circuit protection disabled. It just won't happen. It be the same as me having the likelyhood of dating Penelope Cruise. Oh yeah... A snowball has a better chance of getting thru hell then even getting her cell phone number.

Sorry I meant to quote this one:

I honestly think its a toss up between Denon and Yamaha's amp sections. From all the tests I've read on Yamaha products, a common theme of an overly conservative protection mechanism was at play to limit the power delivery of Yamaha's AVR. It kicked in way too early in all of the reports I've read.

I also do not believe a $350 Denon can muscle out $1200 Yamaha, won't even be close.. Now if we are talking about the higher end Denon that are 4 ohm rated, such as the 4311 and 4520, they probably would edge out the Yamaha's 3000 series but again only in ACD situations and in real life application ACD is a non issue for people like me as I never listen to multichannel Stereo. In 1 and 2 channel situations Yamaha and Denon are once again in par, base on past bench test results.

 

[PENG]

(Yes, I volume matched )

- Rich

But with eyes wide opened right? Sorry, just kidding!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Turn OFF the Audyssey modes, then take a listen...
Assuming you have high, quality/resolution loudspeakers and listen to the clarity/detail..
Most likely you will keep them OFF...

Just my $0.05...

I've been keeping them OFF for the last 10 years because I thought exactly as you do.

Actually I do keep Audyssey off for L/R - it's called Audyssey Bypass L/R. But this allows Dynamic EQ to be ON, which is what I am really after.

So my setting is Audyssey Bypass L/R + Dynamic EQ on - no Audyssey Room Correction for L/R speakers, but keep Dynamic EQ on.

And in case you ask, Dynamic EQ ON sounds 100% better than DEQ off. Must have for me.

And Dynamic Volume is OFF 100% (that's the Dynamic Range Control thing).

 

[Cygnus]

You can tweek YPAO to get where you want it but you cannot with Auddessy.

You can tweak Audessy just fine. I can adjust X-overs, EQ, distance, level, for each speaker, for example, after Audessy has done it's thing. Or am I missing something? I don't know if you can actually adjust the Audessy EQ after the fact, just one of it's settings. Can you adjust YPAO entirely?

 

[3db]

You can tweak Audessy just fine. I can adjust X-overs, EQ, distance, level, for each speaker, for example, after Audessy has done it's thing. Or am I missing something? I don't know if you can actually adjust the Audessy EQ after the fact, just one of it's settings. Can you adjust YPAO entirely?

You can adjust YPAO after the fact

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

You can adjust YPAO after the fact

You can also adjust the Audyssey EQ afterwards - it's called custom EQ. But I don't mess with that.

Basically, you can adjust every singe parameter after you run Audyssey.

You can even use subwoofers in Pure Direct mode on Denon/Marantz, which you cannot do with Yamaha or any other brands, but that is another thread.

 

[eJeremye]

You can even use subwoofers in Pure Direct mode on Denon/Marantz, which you cannot do with Yamaha or any other brands, but that is another thread.

So on yamaha receivers 2 channel stereo will not use the sub?

 

[3db]

So on yamaha receivers 2 channel stereo will not use the sub?

Incorrect. In DSP stereo and straight stereo mode, the subs will be used. Its only pure direct that disables the subs.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So on yamaha receivers 2 channel stereo will not use the sub?

Like 3dB says, you do get subs in Stereo mode. But you do not get subs in Direct or Pure Direct.

You do get subs even in Pure Direct mode on Denon & Marantz.

If you like Pure Direct.

 

[surveyor]

Here's an interesting review on Yamaha versus Denon.
Yamaha Aventage RX-A3020 Receiver Review - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com

 

[M Code]

Hmmm.
Regarding multiple subwoofers...
I would suggest that the reviewer do some homework and read some of the Dr.Toole's white papers as with his mentioned placement he is creating more acoustic problems than solving....
Also he is using the Behringer digital equalizer for the subwoofers, which can be effective for minmizing acoustic feedback of a turntable but is far too noisy for quality, high resolution sonics...

Just my $0.05...

 

[surveyor]

Sorry I meant to quote this one:



I also do not believe a $350 Denon can muscle out $1200 Yamaha, won't even be close.. Now if we are talking about the higher end Denon that are 4 ohm rated, such as the 4311 and 4520, they probably would edge out the Yamaha's 3000 series but again only in ACD situations and in real life application ACD is a non issue for people like me as I never listen to multichannel Stereo. In 1 and 2 channel situations Yamaha and Denon are once again in par, base on past bench test results.

The 4520 amp section is up to the challenge:
fully discrete, identical quality and power for all
9 channels
• 150 W per channel power amplifier with symmetrical
monolithic construction
• Denon custom-made high current power transistors
(D.H.C.T) for high current capability
• Denon custom-made massive capacitors and
Selected Schottky Barrier Diodes provide high
burst power

 

[psbfan9]

Like 3dB says, you do get subs in Stereo mode. But you do not get subs in Direct or Pure Direct.

You do get subs even in Pure Direct mode on Denon & Marantz.

If you like Pure Direct.

You do if you use the 'extra' bass setting in YPAO, or 'double bass' setting on Onkyo receivers.