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KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I made it to TBI on Wednesday afternoon.
Up front, I need to emphasize that I cannot resolve the dispute on this forum. I don't have the technical background to evaluate what I hear and why. I'm just a dumb set of ears!:p
Note that all comparisons were music only. I spent 3 hours total, with roughly 1.5 hours dedicated to critical listening and teh rest discussing or listening to other products (not as a comparison).

As preparation, I checked out the BioLinks Audio Webstore, http://clearcenterchannel.com/wordpress/?page_id=227
and found
1) the DAD-1, a $140/pair of add-on tweeters (1" silk dome),
2) the Majestic Diamond I, a $300/pr single 3" driver full range speaker, and
3) Magellan VI su, a $700 passive subwoofer w/6" driver.

Looking at the speakers in my home, I feel the most comparable are my EMP Tek 41-SE/B's, http://emptek.com/beryllium.php and the Martin Logan 10" sealed Dynamo, http://www.martinlogan.com/products/dynamo .
The 41-SE/B's are little over-achievers which have an incredibly quick bass/mid driver (quicker than the bass/mid of my Songtowers or my Paradigm Signature S2, but not quite so quick as my Focal Solo6 Be's). They also have the best soft dome tweeter I have heard. In his review, Gene described the tweeter as follows:
The 1” silk dome tweeter in the EMP 41-SE/B is an EMP exclusive design meant to perform on par with the Vifa used in RBH Sound Signature product but at a greatly reduced cost. Based on my listening tests, I have no doubts that their design goal was achieved.
The Dynamo is a nice sub which lacks the low end and output of the larger SVS SB-12 Plus, but is tighter, so it makes a fine music sub. It is essentially a 1' cube.
Last I brought my two Marantz SR-6001 receivers so I could level match and A-B the speakers.

Once I got to the TBI showroom, they helped me carry in the gear and we got it set up to compare with their newer Majestic Diamond II which are a two way speaker selling for around $500, IIRC. This make for a pretty close comparison price-wise (depending on how much the $750 price of the EMP speakers is reduced if you discount the value of the amp). The TBI subwoofer was a new prototype and a step up from the Magellan VI su.

The subwoofers.
We listened to some fretless bass, and I was very impressed with how the resonance (that "singing" sound unique to fretless bass) was reproduced on the TBI sub. It was nice. I don't know what characteristic would assist reproducing this sound, but TBI clearly had it over the Martin Logan.
I did not hear anything that the Dynamo did better than the TBI sub, so have to conclude that the TBI is a better (albeit more expensive) sub.
Later, we hooked up the Magellan VI su to compare against the Dynamo. It also bested the Dynamo in the same fretless bass and produced solid and deep musical bass from the 6" driver! Again, I would consider this a better sub than the Dynamo (and again it is more expensive, but not by so much if you go to the pre-closeout price for the Dynamo). I am very impressed that a sub with a 6" driver could perform as well as the TBI does regardless of the price.

The speakers.
The Majestic Diamond II's had (BioLinksAudio needs to correct me on driver sizes, I'm guessing) something like a 1-1/4 to 1-1/2" conical tweeter (with a phase plug!) and a woofer/mid around 3-4".
The first thing I noticed was that my own 41-SE/B's were a little too bright for my taste in their room (they are great in my own bedroom, living room, or den). The walls didn't have anything to absorb or diffuse sound.
Conversely, their speakers were clearly lacking in the high frequencies to my ear.
Anyone who has read my previous speaker auditions know I like good extension on the high frequencies and the TBI's conical tweeters just did not perform on this count. That is a matter of personal taste, but the TBI speakers did not have the open airy sound I like. I do believe the TBI would offer excellent clarity in the critical speech frequency range when watching TV.
In the lower to mid-high frequencies, the TBI's were well-balanced and played well with the sub (bass management being performed at the Marantz receiver).
The EMP's proved to be the quicker driver, but as I said in the intro, it is an incredibly quick driver. I determine this by listening to Chris Squire on electric bass or raucous brass in the lower registers. Both of these places will have a sharper edge or growl to the sound with the quicker driver. This is very easily heard on a loud low note on a Tuba or Bass Trombone (or Chris Squire playing a very low note) where it is a dominant effect on about any speaker, but how well this same characteristic is replicated on higher pitched notes depends on the speaker.
The TBI's did exhibit better dispersion than the EMP's but without the highest content, I could not tell if the comparative directionality of the EMP was from the highest frequencies or not. The EMP's are a dome tweeter and do not exhibit any unusual beaming. I was surprised that a conical tweeter had this good of dispersion.

Next we switched from the Majestic Diamond II's down to the Majestic Diamond I's coupled with what I assume are the TBI DAD I tweeters. These tweeters had higher frequencies typical of a soft dome and were much more "open" than the MDII's. They still didn't have the highs of the EMP's but they were much better. The MDI's worked well with the subwoofer, but I felt that the MDI and the tweeter did not integrate as well as the drivers of the MDII's or the EMP's. I don't know if their setup allows you to balance tune the tweeter to the speaker or not.
I again noticed good dispersion which bested the EMP's when moving around in the room. Not so big a difference this time, but it was there.

Conclusions:
TBI has, IMHO, something interesting going on with their subwoofer. I can only compare to the SVS SB12 Plus and the Martin Logan Dynamo, but the TBI subs were as quick or quicker than the Dynamo (which means it is quicker than my SB12 Plus) and did a beautiful job of reproducing the fretless bass resonance. It is noteworthy what they have managed to get from a 6" sub. I can't say how well it would perform for HT, but it is very nice with music.
For the speakers, I brought stiff competition which, IMHO, bested their speakers. I cannot say their speakers were bad, but nor did I notice anything which set them apart as unique or better.

I also listened to several of their more "commodity oriented" products. I was impressed with how much bass came out of the miniature speakers from the compact Sharp unit (unfortunately the redhead wasn't anywhere to be found:confused:) and it was neat feeling the air coming out of the little 7mm (IIRC) port.

To really evaluate their specific designs it would be nice to compare a standard commercial speaker with the same speaker converted using their designs. Perhaps this is not really feasible.

On speakers, my feeling is TBI may be improving sound at the level of bulk systems and, with further refinement, it may become competitive at the audiophile level. But at present, I don't believe their speakers offer any decisive benefit over the speakers typically recommended on Audiophile forums.

For subwoofers, I plan to pay close attention to future reviews to see what others think and I also am anxious to build my DIY subs and see how they sound with fretless bass compared to my Dynamos. IMHO, TBI has a product which is at least competitive, if not better, and warrants further attention.

Cheers,
Kurt
 
JerryLove

JerryLove

Audioholic Samurai
I did not hear anything that the Dynamo did better than the TBI sub, so have to conclude that the TBI is a better (albeit more expensive) sub.
Later, we hooked up the Magellan VI su to compare against the Dynamo. It also bested the Dynamo in the same fretless bass and produced solid and deep musical bass from the 6" driver! Again, I would consider this a better sub than the Dynamo (and again it is more expensive, but not by so much if you go to the pre-closeout price for the Dynamo). I am very impressed that a sub with a 6" driver could perform as well as the TBI does regardless of the price.
I beleive this part is the crux of the ongoing discussion.

The big issue with driver size is LF extension at SPL, and the big issue with cabinets are distortion as you move across the spectrum.

I don't know that I would have chosen something as generally loose in sound as an electric guitar (where driving amps to distortion is often part of the sound). I prefer organ or piano.

How large a room? How loud? How far from the speaker? Could you move around without the sound changing? I've got some very small-speakered headphones that will give you very nice bass... if your ears are an inch or two from the drivers.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
I beleive this part is the crux of the ongoing discussion.

The big issue with driver size is LF extension at SPL, and the big issue with cabinets are distortion as you move across the spectrum.

I don't know that I would have chosen something as generally loose in sound as an electric guitar (where driving amps to distortion is often part of the sound). I prefer organ or piano.
Fwiw, this was mostly acoustic upright bass, but some electric. That was by no means the only content listened to, but it was the content which revealed a pronounced difference between the subs.

How large a room? How loud? How far from the speaker? Could you move around without the sound changing? I've got some very small-speakered headphones that will give you very nice bass... if your ears are an inch or two from the drivers.
I would guess the room at ~12 X 20 X 8, but that is a guess.
I did not measure but from experience would put the SPL at about 80-85dB at the listening area.
About 8 to 11' from the speakers (I was moving around - not in a specific spot)
When I walked around, I noticed one spot where the bass did sound a bit boomy (not sure which sub was playing at the time - I subconscious/reflexively moved over and didn't give it thought until your question). Now that we are discussing it, I wish I had given this more attention.
For the tiny Sharp MP3 unit, we discussed, and I tried, the idea of lying in a hotel bed with the unit on your chest. This really did produce a nice sound envelope at about 18", which seems in line with the concept you mention.
Like I said at the start, I don't have the technical background to know how to analyze the specifics, all I did was listen as if I was auditioning the speakers and sub and give my impressions.
HTH
 
BioLinksAudio

BioLinksAudio

Audioholic Intern
Fwiw, this was mostly acoustic upright bass, but some electric. That was by no means the only content listened to, but it was the content which revealed a pronounced difference between the subs.



I would guess the room at ~12 X 20 X 8, but that is a guess.
I did not measure but from experience would put the SPL at about 80-85dB at the listening area.
About 8 to 11' from the speakers (I was moving around - not in a specific spot)
When I walked around, I noticed one spot where the bass did sound a bit boomy (not sure which sub was playing at the time - I subconscious/reflexively moved over and didn't give it thought until your question). Now that we are discussing it, I wish I had given this more attention.
For the tiny Sharp MP3 unit, we discussed, and I tried, the idea of lying in a hotel bed with the unit on your chest. This really did produce a nice sound envelope at about 18", which seems in line with the concept you mention.
Like I said at the start, I don't have the technical background to know how to analyze the specifics, all I did was listen as if I was auditioning the speakers and sub and give my impressions.
HTH
Thanks for coming by; that was a very thoughtful review. You are welcome to have a follow-up audition of the sub now that you have let your original impressions sink in for awhile.

Dave
 
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