Then people are still buying ps3's as bluray players. My store sells PS3's with no more than once on a daily basis, But walk out with bluray movies in their hand. I know my store is not the only one nationwide or worldwide where this happens. Bluray is actually winning the war right now, even with more HDDVD stand alone players. If PS3's are included in attach rates, then Bluray has that edge at probably like 8.0, where as HDDVD is what 5.4? The prices will be coming down on bluray players too. Keep in mind if we look at equal players from Toshiba, the A30, and a stand alone bluray player. The price difference is $399 retail and $499 retail. Only one hundred dollars. I don't call the A3 equal because its not 1080p and lacks a function or two (I think but could be wrong on the functions). The price difference isnt all that much, the gap on that is closing, then HDDVD will have nothing to say when it is equal price. Also, if you include the new ps3 now $399 the gap is finished, but I was nice enough not to include that one in the price comparison. Again, more than 50,000 of those were sold on their first day, and you better believe that many of them were for bluray use, and each gets 5 free movies with the purchase just like HDDVD offers. With all that being said thanks for taking the time to read such a large post.