Sony CEO Uncertain of Blu-ray Future

gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
well one will have to winn before I jump in that is for sure. Sony burned me once (still have a batamax tape or too). Iit just seems that Sony has a bad track record with it comes to stuff like this (save the CD). I liked SACD and got burned on that. I am 41 years old and one thing you can (might) agree with , these format wars do not really help the induustry.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
Then people are still buying ps3's as bluray players. My store sells PS3's with no more than once on a daily basis, But walk out with bluray movies in their hand. I know my store is not the only one nationwide or worldwide where this happens. Bluray is actually winning the war right now, even with more HDDVD stand alone players. If PS3's are included in attach rates, then Bluray has that edge at probably like 8.0, where as HDDVD is what 5.4? The prices will be coming down on bluray players too. Keep in mind if we look at equal players from Toshiba, the A30, and a stand alone bluray player. The price difference is $399 retail and $499 retail. Only one hundred dollars. I don't call the A3 equal because its not 1080p and lacks a function or two (I think but could be wrong on the functions). The price difference isnt all that much, the gap on that is closing, then HDDVD will have nothing to say when it is equal price. Also, if you include the new ps3 now $399 the gap is finished, but I was nice enough not to include that one in the price comparison. Again, more than 50,000 of those were sold on their first day, and you better believe that many of them were for bluray use, and each gets 5 free movies with the purchase just like HDDVD offers. With all that being said thanks for taking the time to read such a large post.
I will give you that. I was at BB this weekend and I saw a couple of people buying PS3's at the register but they had no games to go along with it, just movies.
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
"Onkyo will kill that "price advantage" that HDDVD holds over bluray."

how could that be Onkyo went with HD?
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
tuff room

I gitta say I seem to be the only HD-DVD hopeful here :D
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
well one will have to winn before I jump in that is for sure. Sony burned me once (still have a batamax tape or too). Iit just seems that Sony has a bad track record with it comes to stuff like this (save the CD). I liked SACD and got burned on that. I am 41 years old and one thing you can (might) agree with , these format wars do not really help the induustry.
I would agree that Sony has a bad track record- but I believe its more with identifying customers than with innovation. Sony makes some really cool products for a really long time, the problem is that they still believe they can replicate the walkman with EVERY product they make. Tehy need to understand that some products will never sell to the mass public. Stuff like SACD will only ever appeal to audiophiles (I only know 1 or 2 people who even have a player) and people with really deep pockets- so why not spin off a division to produce products for only this select group. If a product somehow becomes really popular, then develop cheaper models and market to the masses. Otherwise, stick with what you do best- providing high priced, mainly higher end, products to folks who can afford the brand.
 
S

sokrman14

Audioholic
"Onkyo will kill that "price advantage" that HDDVD holds over bluray."

how could that be Onkyo went with HD?
Because HDDVD keeps saying they are the cheaper product, but Onkyo will be a $1200 player, there goes saying that all of their players are cheaper than bluray. I might agree they are cheaper, but I dont want a cheap product.
 
yettitheman

yettitheman

Audioholic General
SACD VS DVD-A....
Betamax VS VHS...
HD DVD VS Blu-Ray...

What do they have in common? Pissing consumers off :D
I will say this as well; if Toshiba can sell some more sub $200 players, they will be set (IMO).
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
SACD VS DVD-A....
Betamax VS VHS...
HD DVD VS Blu-Ray...

What do they have in common? Pissing consumers off :D
I will say this as well; if Toshiba can sell some more sub $200 players, they will be set (IMO).
best comment of the day !!! touché sir!
 
A

autoboy

Audioholic
Only geeks will buy the PS3 as a BluRay player, and we all know that geeks don't determine trends. I just got a PS3 for the BluRay, and I have a Xbox360 for the HD-DVD. Both make good players, but my girlfriend can't figure out how to use them. She uses the old DVD player to watch her movies. There is no way the average consumer is going to get out their PS3 controller and fiddle with the buttons to play and pause a movie. Another HUGE problem with the PS3 is the blue tooth remote. WTF! I spent good money on a universal remote and now I have this huge PS3 remote that I had to pay extra for!!! F#@k I didn't think it would bother me but it does. As soon as a decent universal player comes out, (or the format war is over) i'll buy it.

HD-DVD is now in the price territory of upscaling DVD players. Upscaling became all the rage even though nobody actually needs it because players said they upconvert to HD resolutions. Most of the time these upscaling players are making their picture worse than their progressive scan player did because they set the output to 1080i on their 720p display and double scale and interlace the image. They would be better off with their upscaling player set to 480p! Do they care! No! HD-DVD is a much better name and people will buy them because they are cheap. 1080i, 1080p sounds the same to me, the consumer will see the 1080 and think that is the best HD they can get and love their players because they paid good $ for them.
 
tn001d

tn001d

Senior Audioholic
Because HDDVD keeps saying they are the cheaper product, but Onkyo will be a $1200 player, there goes saying that all of their players are cheaper than bluray. I might agree they are cheaper, but I dont want a cheap product.
Onecall has preorders for Onkyo at $799. They are due to arrive in a few weeks.
 

jonzy

Audiophyte
lower prices dont always mean winning format.

To be honest with you I wonder why xbox,ps3 and wii can survive but not 2 HD formats. Anyway lower prices can sometimes mean despiration as well folks. Remember how low prices turned Divx into a winner over DVD? If it takes 98 to sell those systems does that mean they will only sell at that pirce? Meaning any price over that will mean little to no sales by HD DVD. I wouldnt even be in this war without the ps3 but it was a combination of blu ray/ gaming that made me make the purchase. cheap players will help in the short term but what about when you go back to $200 palyers- thats when youll really know the outcome of the war. I try not to get to caught up in this but it seems best case scenario as of right now is HD DVD trying to get to 50/50 with blu ray. Software sales are the begining and end of this and blur ay is up 2-1 right now so thats gotta change before there is any discussion.
 
sholling

sholling

Audioholic Ninja
Software sales are the begining and end of this and blur ay is up 2-1 right now so thats gotta change before there is any discussion.
The latest Maximum PC just showed up in my mailbox with a story quoting Netflix that HD DVD rentals are ordered 2.4:1 over BD. Now correct me if I'm wrong but hardcopy magazines usually have 3 month leadtimes. That means that Netflix's customers were ordering HD at 2-1/2:1 over BD 3 months before the $98 blowout. Don't ask me what it means, but I find it interesting and would love to see what their December numbers are going to look like.
 
aberkowitz

aberkowitz

Audioholic Field Marshall
The latest Maximum PC just showed up in my mailbox with a story quoting Netflix that HD DVD rentals are ordered 2.4:1 over BD. Now correct me if I'm wrong but hardcopy magazines usually have 3 month leadtimes. That means that Netflix's customers were ordering HD at 2-1/2:1 over BD 3 months before the $98 blowout. Don't ask me what it means, but I find it interesting and would love to see what their December numbers are going to look like.
Rentals and sales are two completely different things. Sholling- you and I had this debate in another thread (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=37214&page=2), but from a money perspective it takes 8 rentals of a movie to equal one sale. I'm not going to go back through the analysis (anybody else can check the link if they want) but from a pure profit perspective studios care much more about movie sales since the revenue is much higher and comes much more quickly than rental revenue.

I'd also be wary of using the Netflix number to represent the rental market as a whole since Blockbuster only rents BD. Since HD renters have no other choice but to use Netflix (and this is assuming that Blockbuster and Netflix make up 80+% of the rental market) then it makes sense that Netflix would have a higher ratio. Put both places together and you probably have a good sense of the total rental market.

Back to our porn discussion yesterday- I was having a conversation with my girlfriend this morning about porn on video/DVD/HD & BD, and she had a great point. She wondered why anybody would really want to watch hardcore porn on HD, since every last flaw of a person's body would be shown and since many porn actors look quite nasty on SD porn! (And yes, she likes watching porn). The more I think about it, there are certain shots that I'd NEVER want to see in HD!!!! :D
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
HD DVD has yet to win a single week's worth of disc sales in 2007 and THAT is what the studios care about.

The only studio that gives a toss about attach rates is Sony, because they also make hardware; no other studio does.

Stringer's comments were obviously taken massively out of context.
 
dobyblue

dobyblue

Senior Audioholic
SACD VS DVD-A....
Betamax VS VHS...
HD DVD VS Blu-Ray...

What do they have in common? Pissing consumers off :D
I will say this as well; if Toshiba can sell some more sub $200 players, they will be set (IMO).
At only 420,000 players after 1 1/2 years, they are a long way from being set.

HD DVD doesn't stand a chance against all the powers in the Blu-ray camp. Panasonic, Disney, Fox, Samsung, Sharp, JVC, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Sony, Philips; they're not going to let Blu-ray lose.

The studio support is there, the industry support is there, the CE support is there; HD DVD has one hardware manufacturer and studio support is up in the air; Warner's titles have been selling better on Blu-ray all year.

HD DVD sold 90,000 players in one week-end, a week-end in which there were $14.98 movies there to buy with the player - they got beat 71:29 on the week.
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
from a marketing standpoint I think that HD-DVD has the upper hand the have the DVD logo that everyone knows and the to hottest letters in consumer electronics since 1982 in December when the CD was introduced...HD. The "average" consumer knows what that means. ( I do not consider anyone in this forum average consumer do you?). After my last post I asked a few non audio friends if they have heard of blu-ray, most have not but they did know what HD-DVD was. it was only about 10 folks I talked to. here is another factor I was thinking about, gas,the price if gas is going to go through the roof, economically speaking that could have an impact in this battle this holiday season. It is may summation that after this holiday season it will be a different landscape. so, what say ya'll
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
dobyblue,

I have heard all this before, you could replace blu-ray and HD with batamax and vhs.. I still have magazines in my attic that make the same predictions one way or the other, my prediction "I don't know" and at this point neither does anyone else, it is all just fun speculation (or at least it should be I am amazed at the hostility that I have seen in OTHER posts about this issue, kind of does not really matter in the grand scheme of life) there do seem to be a lot more blu-ray players out there, that is true but they are still pricey but we have only been a short time. what ever happens it will be great! either
 
F

fmw

Audioholic Ninja
If it takes 98 to sell those systems does that mean they will only sell at that pirce?
That's my opinion. The difference between VHS and DVD was spectacular both in terms of picture quality and convenience. The difference between HD and SD optical discs is not spectacular. It is certainly noticeable but not earth-shaking. When HD optical discs and players cost the same as the SD products, they will begin to replace SD in a meaningful way. Or, the next generation of HD technologies may be spectacular enough to do it at a higher price.

I don't believe either current format will get that far and they will go the way of SACD and DVD-A. I viewed the format war as over before I bought either one of my HD optical disk players.
 
gliz

gliz

Full Audioholic
That's my opinion. The difference between VHS and DVD was spectacular both in terms of picture quality and convenience. The difference between HD and SD optical discs is not spectacular. It is certainly noticeable but not earth-shaking. When HD optical discs and players cost the same as the SD products, they will begin to replace SD in a meaningful way. Or, the next generation of HD technologies may be spectacular enough to do it at a higher price.

I don't believe either current format will get that far and they will go the way of SACD and DVD-A. I viewed the format war as over before I bought either one of my HD optical disk players.
well said sir, very well said, not to mention that the titles are more expensive
 
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