Sony CEO Uncertain of Blu-ray Future

[naisphoo]

Full of it...what spankings... in your dreams man...and I will never buy hddv...you want M$ to win the hd war, I hope your prayers are answered. So then they will put shity product like their 33% FAILURE RATE XBOX2 or shity windows and you will be the biggest sucker they will ever have. Why that anti-Sony tone every time you talk about Sony. You are full of it....you know as we all know without m$ toshi will not last a day in this hd war.

 

[BMXTRIX]

I'm really apalled that this website would take such an anti-Sony stance on this matter at all. In fact, it seems that a general ANTI-HD focus has been set instead of focussing on the positives that have resulted across the board.

In hindsight: Would it benefit the customers far more to have a unified format that was presented by all CE manufacturers?

Yes.

Would it benefit CE manufacturers to be in open competition with one anther with shared royalty amounts so that they aren't able to undercut their competition as easily, leading to more overall sales?

Yes.

So, the current stalemate is clearly hurting the format war, the vendors, the studios, and the consumer, which any reasonable person should be allowed to comment on. EXCEPT for someone who works at Sony? Seems kind of ridiculous to me that he's getting raked over the coals for this.

As has been the case from day one: Toshiba is running a monopoly. They are treating HD DVD like a video game system and selling at a loss to gain market share. Their goal is not necessarily to win, but to survive. This way they can get 100% of the royalties and earn millions of dollars.

Have no doubt on this, HD DVD hardware may cost a bit less to produce, but it is being driven to an artificially low level by Toshiba because they can.

Also understand, Blu-ray is not a monopoly the way HD DVD is. The most patents for the Blu-ray technology are held by Panasonic, not Sony. Yes, Sony has invested more in marketing this product, and the inclusion of Blu-ray within the PS3 has allowed it to reach into far more homes than it would have on its own. But, it hasn't stopped players from Panasonic, Samsung, Sharp, Pioneer, and (of course) Sony to come to market, and those companies to sell their products at price levels that can be profitable.

Anyone who thinks that the next year WILL determine the outcome of this format war is kidding themselves. You see, if Toshiba wins, then they still are pretty much the only hardware manufacturer and they continue to own 100% of the market of HD DVD players... Which seems to be exactly what many people are rooting for. Yet, it won't likely happen. It simply is not realistic. In 1-2 years Blu-ray will be at 125 bucks, this will put the price difference between Blu-ray and HD DVD at about 25 bucks or so, which is not enough to get someone to avoid the product. With more studio support currently on the Blu-ray side, this will continue to give Blu-ray an advantage.

Now, we still have a fair amount of questioning that can go on with what the studios decide to do, and the studios can truly determine this format war in the long run. The move by Paramount is an example of how huge this shift can be. But, the move also illustrates that the studios don't have the consumers best interests at heart in the long run. They are looking for the payout that makes them the most money (good business!).

I am of the opinion that in the next year, we may see two major studio changes that could seriously impact the format war. I don't think Paramount is going to do anything, but I do think that Universal may be potential to go neutral (or other).

Warner is potential to go exclusive, but they haven't been very specific about where their exclusivity may lean, no matter what some people say.

I still struggle when sites post a potentially honest statement by a CEO as 'negative'. The current state of HD formats is that neither is burying the other, and that it would have been better for a unified format. It doesn't show 'uncertainty', but honesty - something many CEOs could stand to learn. Likewise, "But when you're desperate…" smacks of this website being desperate. Kids beg for iPods, iPhones, X-Box 360 consoles, bikes, and a thousand other things that cost $400 or more. Yet, it is okay to slam Sony for marketing Disney titles? (Sony instead of Disney?) - Even worse, pretending that HD DVD, when they rarely run any specials on movie titles, are actually 'cheaper'? I just spent $225 on 15 Blu-ray titles that I wanted. This would have run me about $350 on HD DVD with their current Amazon pricing, and had they the titles I wanted.

Giving away the razors to sell the razor blades is okay, but selling a very high quality Blu-ray player for $400 is not?

I'm really confused about why this site bothers holding a very strong bias when Blu-ray and PS3 outperforms any other player on the market by a noticable amount. Seems like it would be better to simply not comment.

 

[Wile_E_Mac]

HD did NOT "spank" BD, but who cares, here's the real issue...

Just like the digital bits stated, here's my stance:

Hollywood is going nuts because home video sales are down something
like 40%. Why? Because hi def discs cost too much ($20-$35 average),
and not enough people have chosen a format because they are waiting
for a winner.

IN THE MEANTIME

I'm not buying dvd's, because I know that I am going to upgrade to hi
def once there is a winner. Why buy Transformers on DVD when I can
see it in 1080p glory within the year (I hope)?

Therefore... home video sales are down, because I'm not going to drop
money into either:
1. A format that has already been surpassed, or
2. A format that may not have a future.

Rock, meet hard place.

My temporary answer is simple: divx is free so long as I don't get
caught. There are even divx's of hi def discs out already, and they
look SICK on a monitor.

 

[Alamar]

Man the fan-boys are really coming out in this thread ... I guess Sony is allowed to sell their best selling Blu player [PS3] at a loss while Toshiba isn't allowed to do so?

As far as the PS3 being the best hidef player / DVD upconverter are there any publised tests for this that I could look at to educate myself on the matter????

Devil's Advocate: I'm more-or-less an HD fan boy so maybe I shouldn't throw stones

P.S.: Neither faction, Blu or HD, has the end-user's interests at heart. The best that we can hope for is a "lesser of two evils" sort of solution. Blu has Sony which is 'nuff said. HD overcharges [by double??] for thier movies which will make me a renter-only ....

 

[BMXTRIX]

Man the fan-boys are really coming out in this thread ... I guess Sony is allowed to sell their best selling Blu player [PS3] at a loss while Toshiba isn't allowed to do so?

Not at all - Toshiba is FREE to sell at a loss, that isn't the issue. But, when people complain about Sony's Blu-ray format, which has players from Panasonic, Pioneer, Sharp, Samsung, and more - then say they prefer the choice that HD DVD offers them, it seems like they should be more aware of what they are saying. Toshiba owns the patents, gets the royalties, and produces the product out there. The only major CE manufacturer who is supposed to be getting into HD DVD exclusively, is selling their player for more than most of the Blu-ray players on the market.

Yet, this article complains about Sony's tactics - which is what I, personally, take exception to. Toshiba is running a monopoly that they have excluded their competitors from. If they can survive, they will own, basically, 100% of a format.

No matter how you slice it - Sony is the big investor in Blu-ray, but Panasonic is still the major patent holder in the technology.

As far as the PS3 being the best hidef player / DVD upconverter are there any publised tests for this that I could look at to educate myself on the matter????

There have been numerous tests of the PS3 in magazines against other Blu-ray players, and the PS3 continues to step up against the best out there. It is far more responsive, has (true) Internet connectivity, and phenomenal image quality.

For DVD upconversion, there is no format testing that I'm aware of, but informal testing, with screen shots from multiple players, (XA2, A2 included I believe), was shown, perhaps at AVS (?), and the PS3 delivered a sharper up converted image than the competition.

Devil's Advocate: I'm more-or-less an HD fan boy so maybe I shouldn't throw stones

Throwing stones is fine, but many want to throw stones without even recognizing they are doing it, or looking at what they are throwing stones at. I personally would rather embrace a format that has been accepted by (far) the majority of the CE industry as standard and has more studio support. Seems to make sense that the format is well received and has more of a chance of survival.

P.S.: Neither faction, Blu or HD, has the end-user's interests at heart. The best that we can hope for is a "lesser of two evils" sort of solution. Blu has Sony which is 'nuff said. HD overcharges [by double??] for thier movies which will make me a renter-only ....

Sony is many things bad and good. People seem to like to spin them to 'bad' when they are simply a company that wants to always innovate technology and make some money off of it. It's what many businesses do, and Sony has made a fortune doing this. They sometimes flop, they sometimes do very well. Some people want to call some of their success stories failures. Some others want to completely ignore their incredible success stories.

But, at the end of the day, HD DVD does have exclusive titles, and if I am a true movie fan (I am) then you can count me in at least as a renter of HD DVD titles that I can play back on my A2.

 

[fmw]

As has been the case from day one: Toshiba is running a monopoly. They are treating HD DVD like a video game system and selling at a loss to gain market share. Their goal is not necessarily to win, but to survive. This way they can get 100% of the royalties and earn millions of dollars.

I'm curious. Toshiba is not a monopoly by any legitimate definition. I'll let that go. However, I'm curious where this "fact" comes from that Toshiba is losing money selling players. Toshiba denies it. I wonder who it is that is calling Toshiba a liar and what proof they have of this. Oh, I forgot. You probably read it on the internet. That explains it.

 

[manofsteel2397]

IMO its not going to matter who wins this war at least for a few years now because i know only 3 people who even own a hdtv and when they do have one its only one and the rest of thier tvs are all anolog most people are not going to want to buy a hd dvd to only playon their main tv especialy when they have 3 or 4 anolog tvs. and most people i know when i tell them that they will have to have some sort of box hooked up to their tvs in a year because that when tv goes all digital realy pisses them off. so untill all tvs are digital tvs this format is going to be just for the hi end users.

 

[Tex-amp]

As has been the case from day one: Toshiba is running a monopoly. They are treating HD DVD like a video game system and selling at a loss to gain market share. Their goal is not necessarily to win, but to survive. This way they can get 100% of the royalties and earn millions of dollars.

Let me guess Sony is in it out of the goodness of their hearts and any profits will go to feed starving children.

There are 4 Chinese companies that have shown proto-types built off the A30 platform for CH DVD. My understanding is change a few parts and these are HD DVD players. We could be seeing the first time the traditional Japanese CE companies get by-passed and a new format comes straight from the Chinese CE companies. Could it be that we are about to see the Chinese CE industry do to the Japanese CE what the Japanese CE did to the US CE 30-40 years ago? http://stor-age.zdnet.com.cn/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Could it be that we are about to see the Chinese CE industry do to the Japanese CE what the Japanese CE did to the US CE 30-40 years ago? http://stor-age.zdnet.com.cn/stor-age/2007/0907/495415.shtml

Why not? That is the trend. They certainly have the labor pool to do it in the cheap They certainly have the government to control things so it stays cheap and corner the world markets. That they are already doing.
And, They are doing it with our money. An economic and soon, a military super power.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.. and selling at a loss to gain market share. .

Isn't that dumping? If so, that is illegal and the courts would be on them like...

 

[aberkowitz]

Isn't that dumping? If so, that is illegal and the courts would be on them like...

No, that's not dumping. Dumping is a term that refers to predatory pricing only when it refers to imports/exports. Specifically, dumping occurs when a company charges a significantly lower price in a foreign market (foreign to that company) than it does in its domestic market. If a US company sold its widgets for $10 in the US but sold them for $4 in Japan then that would be dumping. Japanese electronics companies made a huge living off of this in the 80s. Its hard to use this example with any of the companies involved in the HD/BD market because many of the major players are multinationals and it becomes harder to define where the product actually originated from (as long as some work is done in a country, it can be counted in that country's GDP and therefore is not necessarily an import).

 

[mtrycrafts]

No, that's not dumping. Dumping is a term that refers to predatory pricing only when it refers to imports/exports. Specifically, dumping occurs when a company charges a significantly lower price in a foreign market (foreign to that company) than it does in its domestic market. If a US company sold its widgets for $10 in the US but sold them for $4 in Japan then that would be dumping. Japanese electronics companies made a huge living off of this in the 80s. Its hard to use this example with any of the companies involved in the HD/BD market because many of the major players are multinationals and it becomes harder to define where the product actually originated from (as long as some work is done in a country, it can be counted in that country's GDP and therefore is not necessarily an import).

Thanks, I guess
But what work could be done here on all those DVD players made in China? Double boxing?

 

[aberkowitz]

Thanks, I guess
But what work could be done here on all those DVD players made in China? Double boxing?

Nah- putting all of that excess styrofoam

 

[bongobob]

Thanks, I guess
But what work could be done here on all those DVD players made in China? Double boxing?

They might need it. China has really crappy corrigated

 

[stratman]

These arguments are great fodder for discussion, in the real world market we're talking about peanuts. High def formats comprise less than 10% of video hardware/software sold, as it stands this is seen by the companies involved as an early adopter/specialty item (as stated by Sony on several occasions.) All the major players have their back up plans in place just in case their format "fails," Matsushita can convert from Blu-ray to HD DVD at the wink of an eye so can Sony, so right now it's recover R&D and see where the dust settles, the biggest losers are the consumers who got stuck with the "losing" format. Hollywood will make it's money one way or the other. At the end, this whole mess might be a moot point just like LD, MiniDisc and SACD.

 

[mtrycrafts]

At the end, this whole mess might be a moot point just like LD, MiniDisc and SACD.

Sure. At the end, I will be 6 ft under or most likely just stardust
But, in the meantime, today we can gamble or be neutral and enjoy it while it lasts

 

[Alamar]

@BMX: Thank you for the well reasoned & civil reply.

As far as the stone throwing goes it sounds like the CEO statement seems to imply that the former administration had no intention of negotiating in good faith which is what got us [as customers] in our current mess.

I wish that the best pieces of both technologies could be used:
-- Blu's disc space
-- Blu's better mb/s specs
-- HD's support of managed copy
-- HD's lack of region codes
-- HD's reported cost reduction [where is that savings in movie prices????]

----------------------------------

As far as embracing formats I'd prefer the format that gives me as a customer more things that I'm looking for. While neither HD or Blu is friendly to the customer I prefer HD's approach compared to Sony's

-----------------------------------

As far as Sony just wanting to push innovative technology I would say they have too much zeal for such things. Honestly the impression that I have of Sony is that they are trying to make a buck at my expense by launching / supporting proprietary technologies instead of getting behind industry standard efforts and then beating the competition with superior quality / prices / whatever.

 

[aberkowitz]

As far as embracing formats I'd prefer the format that gives me as a customer more things that I'm looking for.

.

You mean companies actually listening to what consumers really want????? What a curious concept!!!

 

[Alamar]

As an addenda on the whole "monopoly" arguement it looks like the EU is fining Sony for price fixing ... Basically they were meeting with partners and competitors and making sure that prices stayed where they wanted them to.

I guess my point is if given a chance Sony is just as likely to behave in a monopolistic fashion as any of the other companies mentioned ... perhaps they're even more likely to do so.

----------------------

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Sony was found guilty of "obstruction" during the investigation ...

 

[aberkowitz]

As an addenda on the whole "monopoly" arguement it looks like the EU is fining Sony for price fixing ... Basically they were meeting with partners and competitors and making sure that prices stayed where they wanted them to.

I guess my point is if given a chance Sony is just as likely to behave in a monopolistic fashion as any of the other companies mentioned ... perhaps they're even more likely to do so.

----------------------

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Sony was found guilty of "obstruction" during the investigation ...

Let's just be clear- the price fixing fine is related to sales of professional grade video tapes and included Fuji & Maxwell as well. The entire revenue stream that the EU is targeting for this investigation is $169 million a year for all of Europe over a 2 year period. I'd bet that the EU probably spent around that putting together their case!

This is not the first time the EU has tried to come after electronics companies- Sony previously for RAM price fixing (France actually accused Sony of terrorism), and we all know about Microsoft. The EU may soon surpass the US as the best place to launch an class action lawsuit!

I'm no Sony apologist, but I don't think they're any better or worse than any other company regarding a monopoly advantage.