Powercords

[Nick250]

"
You can dismiss PS, Richard Gray, Chang, etc. as filthy liars, not my problem. I wont be returning my PS cable, or my RGPC 600s because you say they dont matter.

Righard Gray recommends replacing the stock power cable that comes with their high end equipment? Really, that supprises me, I would not have thought that. Seems odd to me. I am going to send them an email and ask them about, because after all, I could be completely wrong.

 

[jaxvon]

Dave, as much as I disagree with you on the benefits of a $300 AC cord (not that I care, it's your money, your ears, etc), I can say that like many here, you're better off ignoring Mtrycrafts. Just add him/her to your "Ignore User" list in your user control panel and you're good to go. I've consistently found Mtry's posts to be banal, insulting, and lacking in substance. Anyway, it's good to have you here, even if you're going to have a heck of a time with the cable effect thing on these forums.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Actually most decent power cables are 14/4 so that winds up being 11AWG equivalent which gets you close to the full power rating of a 120V/15A wall outlet.

One only has to peek behind the wall outlets to see that 14/2+g ga wire is coming from the box to the receptacle.

 

[mtrycrafts]

"Absolute nonsense, BS, mythology, pseudoscience, run amok. But, the Barnum Effect is proven once again."

Gee, something tells me you hate AC cords, I wonder what would give me that impression.

I guess your impressions are like you perception, unreliable at times. Why would I hate AC cords? I tried to igor them but no sound comes from by boombox. I hate the snake oil claims, the voodoo marketeers. But then, why would audio marketplace be different from any other market out there, or be exempt from the bs.

Its standard practice, just about every amplifier comes with a lousy stock cord.


More nonsense. Then you wonder what I think.


Actually make that every electronic product that comes with any bundled accessories, those accessories are lousy. Why doesnt Sony include their stunning $600 MDR-SA5000 headphones with every portable CD player they make instead of the $1 headphones that come in the box?


Oh, now the power cord is on par with headphones? Then you wonder what I think.


Paul told me what his product does, and why it does it.

Of course you must believe him.



He asked about what amplifier I was going to use and recommended I try the Plus, his second cheapest cord. He could've easily said "if you want to see a REAL improvement, well then you had better buy our $1200 Ultimate xStream Statement cord" if he was just a scam artist out to make the most money.

Oh, but of course.


I love your usage of bad grammar and spelling by the way, classic forum troll all the way.

Oh, something to pick on. Makes you happy? Will that improve your trust in Paul?

"Yes, your perception is over active."

Gee, thank you for telling me what my perception of my sound system is, I really had no idea. I said the PS cord made a difference.


Ah, it looks better than the stock cable???

I did not say that it has a sonic signature like that of a speaker cable or interconnect.

What, now it doesn't make a difference?



I dont buy that certain AC cords have "sounds" to them like you'll read in reviews, I think that is nonsense. What the PS cable provides is a superior link between the Parasound's transformer and the wall outlet, which allowed the amp to really stretch its legs and deliver to 100% of its ability.

So, without this power cord, an amp will not put out 100%? Really? Any proof of that assertion, as that IS your assertion.

This may come as a shock, but I honestly dont care what you think.

Shock? I don't need you to care. I don't need you to read my posts. Your loss.

You can dismiss PS, Richard Gray, Chang, etc. as filthy liars, not my problem. I wont be returning my PS cable, or my RGPC 600s because you say they dont matter. Enjoy your $5 stock cables and wal-mart powerstrips.

I am, I will, thanks. Yes, I am dismissing those marketeers.

 

[DaveOCP]

Dave, as much as I disagree with you on the benefits of a $300 AC cord (not that I care, it's your money, your ears, etc), I can say that like many here, you're better off ignoring Mtrycrafts. Just add him/her to your "Ignore User" list in your user control panel and you're good to go. I've consistently found Mtry's posts to be banal, insulting, and lacking in substance. Anyway, it's good to have you here, even if you're going to have a heck of a time with the cable effect thing on these forums.

Thanks, done and done. Believe it or not, this isnt the first time I've been one of the few on the "pro fancy cable" side. It's a difficult side to root for because there IS a lot of marketing hype, BS, and 1,000,000% price hikes out there. I dont think the name on the cable matters, nor do I really think that supposed technology like "ConstantQ" "Golden Section" "DBS" (battery powered cable, BRILLIANT) really do anything. There is real science out there however, to prove that yes, copper is a better electrical conductor than brass. Higher quality, longer crystal copper does make a difference. Soldering a connector to a conductor does make a better electrical connnection than simply using a screw and some pressure.

PLCs are just as hard to argue for because there are good ones and bad ones. The Monster stuff is current killing garbage. The PS AC regenerators are absolutely amazing...but they are like having a big Krell Class A monoblock turned on all the time. They run HOT, and pull almost double the power from the wall as they can actually dish out. Not good for the electric bill. The RGPC stuff is a nice compromise; front end equipment hooked up sounds almost as good as when receiving perfect power from a Regenerator, there's no loss in efficiency, no current limiting, and a power surge that would vaporize the usual MOV is no sweat.

Basically all I'm trying to do is say what my personal experience has been, and you can take it or leave it. I think spending $250+\ea on Wattgate 281 outlets and $1000s on AC cords is idiotic, but somebody out there is buying them. However, and this is just IMO, replacing the stock stuff with half decent cords can have very positive results.

 

[Bevan]

arent there some sound qualities that cant be measured empiracly, like soundstaging depth, height etc?

 

[anamorphic96]

arent there some sound qualities that cant be measured empiracly, like soundstaging depth, height etc?

I would say this is attributed to speakers, placement, recording quality, and acoustics.

These play the biggest factor in soundstaging, depth, and height.

Not cables.

 

[DaveOCP]

I would say this is attributed to speakers, placement, recording quality, and acoustics.

These play the biggest factor in soundstaging, depth, and height.

Not cables.

But when you make absolutely no changes to any of the above, the only thing you do is swap a cord, and you still notice the improvements, then logically...

 

[Pyrrho]

But when you make absolutely no changes to any of the above, the only thing you do is swap a cord, and you still notice the improvements, then logically...

If you notice the improvements when doing a properly conducted double blind test, then it would be reasonable to suppose that it makes a difference. But otherwise, there is reason to think that the placebo effect is working. After all, people often believe they can hear a difference when they are told that something is changed, BUT WHEN NOTHING IS ACTUALLY CHANGED. So believing you hear a difference proves absolutely nothing about whether there has been an actual improvement or not.

 

[DaveOCP]

Do you do double blind tests when auditioning speakers, amplfiers, etc? Or how about when test driving a car? Should you do a double blind test there too? You may think it handles better than another car, but what if thats just a suggestion the salesman has planted in your head?

 

[Votrax]

One only has to peek behind the wall outlets to see that 14/2+g ga wire is coming from the box to the receptacle.

Exactly what I was going to say. An inexpensive 14/3 power cord is sufficient to carry 15 amps to any equipment. If you need more than 15A you better be re-wiring your house.

 

[DaveOCP]

Exactly what I was going to say. An inexpensive 14/3 power cord is sufficient to carry 15 amps to any equipment. If you need more than 15A you better be re-wiring your house.

Good point. I actually did that part before buying the Parasound. The home theater has a dedicated, 20A circuit with 10AWG wiring.

 

[Kurt C.]

Do you do double blind tests when auditioning speakers, amplfiers, etc?

I do with speakers, but not with amps. Why not? Because I know based on careful listening (and many careful studies) that unless there is an engineering flaw (ie high output impediance) or one of the amps is broken or pushed too hard, I won't be able to hear a difference.

So, I'd do a simple sighted test (with matched volumes at the levels I'm planning to use). I'd compare the amp I'm considering to a known "good amp". If I heard a difference, I wouldn't buy the amp.

Speakers are completely different. To paraphrase a quote by John Eargle (recording engineer for Delos), electronics are reaching an asymptote. Tiny improvements in sound quality come at great expense. In most cases, the far weaker link (and more obvious place for improvement) is in the microphones used for recording and the speakers.

My interpretation: Put your time and money where there is real potential for improvements--that means speakers.

 

[DaveOCP]

I do with speakers, but not with amps. Why not? Because I know based on careful listening (and many careful studies) that unless there is an engineering flaw (ie high output impediance) or one of the amps is broken or pushed too hard, I won't be able to hear a difference.

So, I'd do a simple sighted test (with matched volumes at the levels I'm planning to use). I'd compare the amp I'm considering to a known "good amp". If I heard a difference, I wouldn't buy the amp.

Speakers are completely different. To paraphrase a quote by Jeff Eargle (recording engineer for Delios), electronics are reaching an asymptote. Tiny improvements in sound quality come at great expense. In most cases, the far weaker link (and more obvious place for improvement) is in the microphones used for recording and the speakers.

My interpretation: Put your time and money where there is real potential for improvements--that means speakers.

Ah, the old, "an amp is an amp, and as long as it isnt clipping, they should all sound the same" argument. Unfortunately thats rediculous. Try a big tube amp like an AR against a transistor Krell, and tell me they sound exactly the same.

 

[Kurt C.]

Do you do double blind tests when auditioning speakers, amplfiers, etc? Or how about when test driving a car? Should you do a double blind test there too? You may think it handles better than another car, but what if thats just a suggestion the salesman has planted in your head?

It's a matter of making sure the test measures the requirements you are seeking.

If you want to know which car will survive a crash better, by all means go for the double blind test.

If you want to know which cable/amp etc. looks better, use your eyes.

If you ONLY care about how something sounds, why do you need your eyes? Use your ears and eliminate things that are known to bias sound perception--volume levels being the prime example.

 

[Kurt C.]

Ah, the old, "an amp is an amp, and as long as it isnt clipping, they should all sound the same" argument. Unfortunately thats rediculous. Try a big tube amp like an AR against a transistor Krell, and tell me they sound exactly the same.

You're right. They may not. That's because big old tube amps often have high output impediance--the electrical equivalent of adding an equalizer. In my book that qualifies as an engineering flaw.

I accept that others think it is a desirable quality. Funny example of this, Bob Carver purposely designed some of his amps so that a resister could be inserted into the signal path by the user. Why, because he knew that some prefer that 'sweet tube sound'.

If you like the sound (or looks) of electronic components that alter the signal in way that you can't control, fine. However, with the exception of microphones and speakers, electronics do exist that do not alter the signal in ways that are perceptible to human ears.

If you can accept that fact, then you should have no trouble believeing that two different components, neither of which alters the signal within the range of human perception, will sound 'the same'.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Exactly what I was going to say. .

Hey, I am psychic Lots of practice

 

[mtrycrafts]

But when you make absolutely no changes to any of the above, the only thing you do is swap a cord, and you still notice the improvements, then logically...

Yep, you still notce but for other reasons you and many gullible audiophiles are not ready to tackle. That is the issue of human bias, perception that is vulnerable to be fooled rather easy.

The real question is, can this be done bias controlled??? So far the data is that comparable wire is just wire, nothing more. The brain fills in. It is looking for changes, it gives it to you. Imagined, period.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Ah, the old, "an amp is an amp, and as long as it isnt clipping, they should all sound the same" argument. Unfortunately thats rediculous. Try a big tube amp like an AR against a transistor Krell, and tell me they sound exactly the same.

What a silly argument and distortion of what is being said. Why? A belief system might be overturned? Cannot admist being wrong???

It depends on that tube amp, its output impedance, its frequency response.

Oh, that Krell? Nothing magical about it, really.

 

[mtrycrafts]

If you can accept that fact, .

This is the flaw in them. They cannot accept facts and come up with any and all excuses, distortions, etc.