Powercords

[Bevan]

no, no depak chopra. infact at the moment i'm reading the text book for cynics, "how mumbo-jumbo conquered the world" by francis wheen. pity he didnt address the hifi trade.

still, i wish we had a john atkinson here for the defence.

also, if we are to believe that reviewers commit outright purgery for a buck, does this make every single review of every single poroduct null and void?(except for Audio Critic and $encible Sounds of course)

b

 

[Sleestack]

Over the past few weeks I bought about 30 powercords from Cobalt. At an average price of about $100, I thought they were relatively reasonable. I did not buy them b/c I had any illusions that they would make my system sound better. I simply wanted uniform cables that look good and make my cables more manageable. Very happy with them (and the rest of the stuff I got from Cobalt).

 

[miklorsmith]

Sure

There are lots of folks not making their living in audio who believe power cables make significant audible differences. Those people are not here and won't be. Look elsewhere if you seek firsthand information.

 

[mtrycrafts]

still, i wish we had a john atkinson here for the defence.

Well, he would be making excuses that it is their opinion that is expressed. Everyone has one, as they say, and some are better than others, especially when it is based in other than voodoo

also, if we are to believe that reviewers commit outright purgery for a buck, does this make every single review of every single poroduct null and void?(except for Audio Critic and $encible Sounds of course)

b

Well, it would in most instances, unless you know more about how the review was conducted beyond an unreliable session. Why would it be worth anything?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I simply wanted uniform cables that look good and make my cables more manageable. Very happy with them (and the rest of the stuff I got from Cobalt).

This is an important reason to buy something; important to you and hardly testable unlike some of the claims

 

[mtrycrafts]

Look elsewhere if you seek firsthand information.

Ah, then by your logic, anyone who had first hand experience with Sylvia Brown, John Edwards, et al, and are satified, that would validate the psychic powers of those individuals???

Not all first hand experience is reliable. Certainly it can be unrelaible, misleading, worthless.

 

[Pyrrho]

...

Did something happen to the origina power cable that it needs replacing? If not, I would trust the component designer to have added the right power cord. After all, if you cannot trust the designer to add the right power cord, you cannot trust the component itself, right?
...

Absolutely. If the maker cannot handle putting an appropriate power cord on the device, making the device will be far beyond their capability.

 

[Pyrrho]

does no one out there want to defend the use aftermarket powercords?

i'm happy to beleive they are snake oil, will save me some cash. i just was under the impression that it was almost standard practice replacing them, like replacing the interconnects that come with components.

There is generally no need for replacing those, either. But many people imagine wires have magical properties, so they buy the "magic" wires.

how it is that the hifi mags can talk so enthusiasticly about them is what puzzles me?

Do these magazines have advertisements in them? What do you think would happen if they said that some product was totally a waste of money?

Also, the editors of the magazines might be true believers themselves. It does not take expertise and real knowledge to start a magazine, only enough money to get started and the desire to do so.

Additionally, any magazine that says that a fraud is a fraud is likely to lose readers. Even good magazines have bad readers, and the subscriptions from bad readers pay the bills as well as those of good readers.

You might also want to read Hans Christian Anderson's "The Emperor's New Clothes". There is a reason why certain children's stories have such an enduring appeal; it is because they illustrate real traits of humans. See: http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm Or:
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/type1620.html

I understand that it is manufacturers that effectively sign reveiwers paychecks at the end of the day, but surely not some pissy little cable manufacturer that doesnt even advertise in the magazine. maybe i need to be more cynical?

b

You don't need cynicism; you need more skepticism. (If the distinction is too fine, then go ahead and increase your cynicism, as that will serve you better than naiveté.)

 

[j_garcia]

 

[Bevan]

but Pyrro, by your arguing the interconnects that come in the box should also serve us fine?

also, i would bet my bottom dollar that there have been possitive power cords in magazines that dont bear that manufacturers adds.


and, i've often read it from the horses mouth that the reviewers simply dont write a review if they think the product a complete waste of money, i.e they write favourable reviews mailny because they screen what they will review beforehand. makes sense to me.

lastly, i would think that making a living as a magazine reviewer would require some expertise and real knowledge.

cheers

b

 

[Nick250]

A few random thoughts:

PT Barnum: No one ever went broke underestimating the gullibility of the American public.

WC Fields: There is a sucker born every minute.

A fool and his money are soon parted.

Do you really think the manufactures of expensive audio equipment would sell a $5000 amp and equip it with a power cord that hinders it's ability to perform at it's best?

 

[gene]

lastly, i would think that making a living as a magazine reviewer would require some expertise and real knowledge.

Its a good thought but often not the case.

As for exotic power cords, I believe this sign says it all



From the Transparent Cable Booth at CEDIA

 

[Bevan]

thats it then! i'm becomming a professional reviewer! always thought it sounded like the ideal job

 

[Buckle-meister]

Is that a Hoover in disguise stalking the woman in the picture?

Regards

 

[mtrycrafts]

but Pyrro, by your arguing the interconnects that come in the box should also serve us fine?

It very well might

also, i would bet my bottom dollar that there have been possitive power cords in magazines that dont bear that manufacturers adds.

And this has what to do with the price of tea in China?

There are only one mag I would trust a test and review from The Audio Critic
T$$, I'd need to see who the reviewer is as that mag have some good ones who will do an objective review, supported by DBT listeing, and others who would not know one end from the other end

The rest, well, they cater to the gullible audiophiles, nothing more.


and, i've often read it from the horses mouth that the reviewers simply dont write a review if they think the product a complete waste of money,


Oh, really? Example???

i.e they write favourable reviews mailny because they screen what they will review beforehand. makes sense to me.

Oh, so they would not review a bad product??? Same effect. Not a bad review in print

lastly, i would think that making a living as a magazine reviewer would require some expertise and real knowledge.
cheers

b

Yes, experise in bs, and wordsmithing to pad the article.

There are only a handful who know something and even less who will do an objective review worth anything.

 

[Bevan]

to do with the price of tea, well, if the manufacturer is not advertising in the magazine, what does the magazine have to loose by a poor review of that manufacturers product?

i believe it was on in stereophiles webpages that i read the question being posed of why the magazine seems to have mainly positive reviews, their answer being that it does not serve anyone to review a knowingly poor product, and going on to say that readers should read between the lines somewhat i.e if a product is not reviewed it might be for good reason. this does not mean that there wont be some relitively poor reviews withing a companies product line. (if it wasnt stereophile dont flame me, but i'm sure some of you would have also read this interview with whomever it was. i'm not making it up for the sake of argument)

mytrycrafts, i did a double blind abx test last week on in-box vs qed qnect3 interconnects and was able to tell the difference. this is why i wonder if there is anything to aftermarket power cables. have you done a db abx test on powercords? to believe either way, on any less evidence than this, would not qualify one as a skeptic in my book. personally i have not yet taken a side in the powerchord debate, i'm merely interested in the possibility, playing the devils advocate, and stating my possibly nieve faith in the not total dishonesty of fellow audiophiles.

respectfully

b.

 

[mtrycrafts]

to do with the price of tea, well, if the manufacturer is not advertising in the magazine, what does the magazine have to loose by a poor review of that manufacturers product?

a guarantee that they never will advertise there, and others may have another look at the mags turnabout practice as they would badmoth a product now.

i believe it was on in stereophiles webpages that i read the question being posed of why the magazine seems to have mainly positive reviews, their answer being that it does not serve anyone to review a knowingly poor product,



Yes, I may have seen this. But, they cannot review every product. So, what does that say about an unreviewed product? Not reviewed because it si bad, or they just couldn't??




mytrycrafts, i did a double blind abx test last week on in-box vs qed qnect3 interconnects and was able to tell the difference.


How many trials? How many correct guesses?

Either the cable is defective, or something wrong with the testing. Tom Nousaine, the DBT guru: No one has ever been able to differentiate in a DBT, interconnects, speaker cables of comparable size, unless, there is a passive preamp being used as they are very sensitive to capacitance.

. have you done a db abx test on powercords?


Nope, never will. It is a hype. It is not even in the signal path.


to believe either way, on any less evidence than this, would not qualify one as a skeptic in my book.


Actually, this is incorrect. I do not have to DBT everything to know. Others have done it. Examinging the principals will lead youy to the answers.
Reports by others is unreliable as it is biased. So, there is no evidence that they will be audibly different, not a hint why they should be.


personally i have not yet taken a side in the powerchord debate, i'm merely interested in the possibility, playing the devils advocate, and stating my possibly nieve faith in the not total dishonesty of fellow audiophiles.

respectfully

b.

If you have taken a position on cables, period, better reexamin them, get a quality DBT experience. The evidence is against you.

 

[Bevan]

the abx tests i did did show an undeniably statistically significant result, infact i could pick it every time, as did my girlfriend. maybe the in-box cable was defective, i dont know.

the difference between the cables was very slight though. and i'm convinced that if i was not able to do instantanious swithching we wouldnt have been able to hear a difference.(my universal player has two sets of outs which allows this).

i dont know the methodology of Nousaine tests ofr what he tested, but i would guess that the enevitable time delay of more than a few seconds on most components would be enough to make the diferences indistinguishable to most people. for this reason i would not personally even bother doing these tests on any equipment i couldnt switch instantaniously, eg source components and interconnects(except speakers as i think their differences are sufficient that i would be able to remember them over longer periods of time). i think the fundamental flaw with abx testing is that it cannot compensate for memory deficiencies.

b

 

[gene]

It still amazes me the amount of hurtles audiophiles go through to rationalize that they think they can hear a difference in cables, especially power cables. They ignore science, logic and common sense, and turn to blind faith instead.

What is even more amazing is that they usually ignore the obvious things that can dramatically improve system fidelity - THE ROOM! Every $ spent on exotic cables NOT being put into treating the room, or working on getting better bass integration between the sub(s) and main speakers, is a $ wasted IMO.

 

[Buckle-meister]

What is even more amazing is that they usually ignore the obvious things that can dramatically improve system fidelity - THE ROOM!

Just out of curiosity Gene, are the reference rooms that Audioholics uses to audition kit treated?

Regards