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avliner

avliner

Audioholic Chief
Hey guys,

sorry to tell you that, but you're not getting what the OP is saying about the directionality of passive cables at all, Nordost or whatever. I've done that myself and I've also heard a big difference; there is, with the "arrow" pointing the opposite (wrong) way - believe it or not - my CD player started to play all songs backwards, so, don't ever try to do that, right?:eek::p
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Often, people ask a question like, where should I put my amp or receiver if I want to improve my sonics? What can I do to tighten up my bass? Now many place their amps somewhere higher up. This is wrong. You should place your amp at the very bottom. For those of you who run monoblocks and place each amp by the speaker on stands, well you're doing the wrong thing. Sell the stands and put your amps on the floor. There are several theories, all of which apply, which serve to explain the improvement in the bass. I think it's time to look at them all so that we, as audiophiles, may inform our friends of the sound, scientific reasons why amps belong on the floor.

It is well known from anyone who does any baking, that less time is required when baking at lower altitudes. This is simply due to air pressure. Scientifically, according to well-known Chemical colligative properties, the boiling point of a substance decreases with decreased air pressure. At lower altitudes, such as you'll find at the bottom shelf (better the floor) more electrons are available. At higher altitudes, like anyplace other than the ground, more electrons escape. Being very light, they escape very quickly and take with them very very important audio information that contributes to a tightened bass. The important thing to understand from all this, is that for those of you who live in Denver, you're doomed, no matter how much you spend, no matter what subwoofer you buy, to having worse bass than us, who live at lower altitudes. You think Hussein built those underground bunkers for personal protection? Think again me bucko, it was to improve his bass. Duhhhhhhhh!

Another reason has to do with rather simple gravitational effects. When you place your amp high, the electrons have to fall further. This is a very bad thing because what they do as they fall is to bump into the slower moving ones down the interconnects and speaker wires. For those who remember, potential energy (that's the energy something has by virtue of where it's located) can be converted to kinetic energy (that's the energy that's directly related to an object's movement). Hence, what occurs is that as these electrons get bumped, they increase the cable capacitance. This has the well-known effect of diminishing the bass and making it more muddy. Some think that what also is happening is that the audio information that the electrons are carrying gets transferred and spread out. Strand jumping and all that. I think there's some merit in this.

You can further help prevent the electrons from escaping by placing heavy objects on top of the amp. Keep in mind how small electrons are and don't for a minute think you can use sand bags. That's just plain foolish. Lead, or depleted urananium is much more effective in keeping your electrons from escaping. While you're at it, make sure there's a dictionary on top of the heavy weights to improve definition.

Speaker manufacturers, the good ones that is, have known this for many years which is why woofers are placed on the bottom. Oh, you don't have a speaker like that? Quickly sell it on Audigon while you can and buy one that does.

Now for you skeptics, lower your amp and see if you don't hear a tightening of the bass. Ask your wife or girlfriend. Even if they're out in the car, or visiting their mother, they'll know that something's different and not only different, but better. Try it :)
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...

Now for you skeptics, lower your amp and see if you don't hear a tightening of the bass. Ask your wife or girlfriend. Even if they're out in the car, or visiting their mother, they'll know that something's different and not only different, but better. Try it :)
Oh wow, it is so tight that it is choking now; had to let up so they could breath again or die.
Not a sub killer.
 
B

Blue Dude

Audioholic
While you're at it, make sure there's a dictionary on top of the heavy weights to improve definition.
Well now, this is just evil. You were pseudo-techno-babbling nicely but this is pure satire.
 
bigus

bigus

Audioholic
The burden of proof is NOT on us, it is on YOU! You are making claims that deny peer reviewed science and repeatability in controlled blind testing. Most electricians I've met at least have a little basis in EE theory to recognize the audio cable industry is laced with snake oil and unprovible claims. I guess there are always exceptions ;) Enjoy your cables....
I also have an electrical engineering tech diploma. I'm also a master electrician.
I do not design cables.
I make claims that I hear a difference. I also make a claim that my wife and others hear a difference but different than mine. The point is we hear a difference. Can it be proven?
I don't care. The point is I hear a difference. for the better in my case.

If you say a cable is snake oil, people will believe you. That's proven.
You have a lot of followers here. Whats the harm in trying something different?
 
bigus

bigus

Audioholic
Silly wabbit. twicks are for kids.

You really should know better. If you had any exposure to science or statistics you would know it's up to YOU to prove there IS a difference.

Nice troll thread, though.

View attachment 18342
Do you or have you ever designed cables?
I don't know how they do it. There is a difference.
I don't care if you believe or not.

I used to use 12 gauge speaker wire and thought it was fine.
Then I tried the Red Dawn cable.
My system has never sounded better. It was an eye opener.
Same goes for their interconnects.

Have you tried any other cable? I'm guessing not.
Because someone told you it was snake oil?
I don't care about science but do care about what I hear.
Am I trolling? the thread title is quite plain.
You have your own opinion follower and I have mine.
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
I also have an electrical engineering tech diploma. I'm also a master electrician.
I do not design cables.
I make claims that I hear a difference. I also make a claim that my wife and others hear a difference but different than mine. The point is we hear a difference. Can it be proven?
I don't care. The point is I hear a difference. for the better in my case.

If you say a cable is snake oil, people will believe you. That's proven.
You have a lot of followers here. Whats the harm in trying something different?
If you are bent on wasting money on this lunacy, that's one thing. To come on here and try and persuade others to part with their hard earned cash on your absurd fantasies is quite another. That is where the harm comes.

I have to say you are a persistent little twerp, but twerp you are.
 
tyhjaarpa

tyhjaarpa

Audioholic Field Marshall
I find it funny that you have completely ignored my posts and keep telling us you can hear a difference without any proof that can be measured.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
Do you or have you ever designed cables?
I don't know how they do it. There is a difference.
I don't care if you believe or not.

I used to use 12 gauge speaker wire and thought it was fine.
Then I tried the Red Dawn cable.
My system has never sounded better. It was an eye opener.
Same goes for their interconnects.

Have you tried any other cable? I'm guessing not.
Because someone told you it was snake oil?
I don't care about science but do care about what I hear.
Am I trolling? the thread title is quite plain.
You have your own opinion follower and I have mine.
Well big guy. I'm still waiting for proof there is an audible difference between these high falutin' cables and ordinary run of the mill cables.

You seem so sure that it's a fact but I've yet to see any solid proof. As a (supposed) cable designer, that should be easy, no?

The fact that you say it's so carries as much weight as an alzheimers patient saying they saw Abraham Lincoln.

Again, nice troll. This is actually fun. Kinda like taking the wings off of a fly and making a walk.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
...
I make claims that I hear a difference. I also make a claim that my wife and others hear a difference but different than mine. The point is we hear a difference. Can it be proven?
I don't care. The point is I hear a difference. for the better in my case.
Yes indeed, you do make claims, a number of them. And certainly this can be demonstrated and proven in a credible manner. You have done neither and is just an empty claim, an anecdote. No real value to others but yourself.
As to caring, I think you should care but of course you don't have to.
And, actually, no one knows for sure you hear a difference, not even yourself. You just think you do. That also is of relevance to yourself only.
If you say a cable is snake oil, people will believe you. That's proven.
You have a lot of followers here. Whats the harm in trying something different?
Cables are not snake oil. After all, they do deliver the audio signal, in this case, to speakers.
However, many cable vendors' claims for cables are snake oil in nature.
People here don't follow Gene blindly. With regards to cables, there are historical evidence for them not to matter audibly beyond sufficient gauge. Why bother trying other cables unless one has other reasons
such as looks, etc.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
He will ignore this post too. He says he knows how cables work. He does not.

Here is a copper atom.


The neutrons have no charge. The protons have a +ve charge. The electrons orbiting the nucleus have a negative charge. There is balanced neutrality, and there are 29 protons and 29 electrons. Note there is only one electron in the outer orbit. This is true of all good conductors, and they are eager to give that electron up.

In a DC state the electrons flow from negative to positive. One atoms hands off an electron to another atom in daisy change fashion.

Now in an AC circuit and a loudspeaker circuit is AC, the negative terminal is at ground potential and the positive is constantly going above and below ground as the signal demands. So the electrons are being handed off from atom to atom in both directions, depending on the polarity of the positive lead to ground on a moment to moment basis.

Right there that proves the idiocy of putting a directional arrow on a speaker cable. That is pure snake oil and nothing else.

A speaker cable does not need designing except for the termination. It needs specifying. You need length, number of conductors to provide the resistance in ohms per foot. The maximum inductance allowed by the wind of the cable. The insulation needs to be specified, so there is sufficient insulation so there are no sparks. Attention needs to be paid to the dialectric constant of the insulator so that it is spaced adequately so as the cable can carry the intended frequency without loss.

These are all simple calculations, nothing difficult or esoteric about it. The snake oil cable salesman claim effects not known to scientists or nuclear physicists. It is all bogus Bigus, and that's an end to it.

Fortunately audio signals are low enough in frequency all you really need to worry about is resistance per foot and sufficient insulation.

Nothing complicated or magical here. The rest is self delusion at which you Bigus Dickus seem to specialize.
 
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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Spartan
I just want to know how an electrical engineer becomes a master electrician. That might explain it.
 
M

markw

Audioholic Overlord
He will ignore this post too. He says he knows how cables work. He does not.

Here is a copper atom.


The neutrons have no charge. The protons have a +ve charge. The electrons orbiting the nucleus have a negative charge. There is balanced neutrality, and there are 29 protons and 29 electrons. Note there is only one electron in the outer orbit. This is true of all good conductors, and they are eager to give that electron up.
You got the protons, neutrons and electrons but you forgot one very important one.

The morons.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I just want to know how an electrical engineer becomes a master electrician. That might explain it.
Mmmmm. He may not be a real BS EE. Perhaps just a 2 year program.

Lots of info on line about EET:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=electrical engineering tech diploma

Does he really have an accredited degree?
Perhaps he is an electrician with a number of years in the field and perhaps was able to pass ma union test to become a master electrician.
Certainly doesn't look like a BS EE.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Also didn't mention the Pi orbitals and exactly how the electrons get shared, nor exactly why Cu would prefer to lose that 1 lone electron. Now, we are getting hard-core into my (first) field of expertise--chemistry ;)
Well, let's not get too deep in here. ;) :D
 
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