New sub build

Discussion in 'DIY Corner - Tips & Techniques' started by ARES24, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    I am looking to build a new sub. My wife was present when my last sub self destructed, therefore it is her fault!!! What I want is a sub that reaches to 16 Hz and can pressurize a room of 2000 cubic + (open to the stairwell to upstairs. I would really like to build it myself. ( I can't help it that my ER18's were such a success.) The cabinet that I would like would be an 'end table' design (approx 20W X 30D X 28H overall dimensions(ish)).

    Any ideas that would make my viewing/listening awesome?

    My listening is 50/50 music to movie and my budget is around $800 - $1000. I can't afford it until I get the proper approval..... :D (marriage is a hinderance in some situations :p)
  2. annunaki Moderator

    annunaki
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    Does your budget include amplification & eq/correction device?

    I think we will likely be looking at 15" to 18" options here. :)
  3. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    Yes, factor in about $600 for amp/EQ. I think a dual opposed 18" with two Stereo Integrity drivers might be perfect.

    $600 for EQ/amp

    $~400 for the two drivers

    $~1-300 for material costs and finishing depending on how you want to do it.

    If your budget doesn't include EQ and amplification then a single driver will bring costs down to budget, but a dual opposed or two subs will fill the space better and provide more even bass response (for two separate subs).
  4. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    Budget is for all electrical components, but only the electrical components. The budget can be adjusted if it is warranted.
  5. fuzz092888 Audioholic Warlord

    fuzz092888
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    So not for any of the wood or other building materials?

    $479 Crest Pro Lite

    $150 MiniDSP and plugin

    $162+shipping for an 18" SI driver

    Total: $791 + shipping for the driver. The great part about this is that you're all setup so that if you choose to purchase another SI driver and build another sub you can use the same amp and miniDSP for the other sub as well.
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  6. jinjuku Moderator

    jinjuku
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    Suggest getting a Crown XTi series 2 with built in DSP and skip the Crest+Mini-DSP combo or Crest Pro Lite with DSP
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  7. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

    lsiberian
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    For an amp just grab one of these [h=1]Behringer NU3000 iNUKE[/h]That's plenty to drive a pair of SIs they don't take a lot of power.
    Stereo Integrity | Order Online A pair of the 18s would make great end tables.:)
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  8. TLS Guy Audioholic Overlord

    TLS Guy
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    Things you might consider.

    If you build a sealed sub, the box build is simpler, but everything else is more complicated. In a sealed design you need a much more expensive driver, with more amp power and need Eq and a high pass filter.

    If you choose the right driver and design the cabinet properly you just need a good driver a well designed and built cabinet and a modest amp.

    For instance I bet if I modeled this driver it would make a nice ported or ABR sub. The unit is efficient and has pretty much all the T/S parameters in the sweet spot. It is a little short on xmax, but with the sensitivity of this unit it won't matter and I believe would power your space nicely. If you are interested in it, I will model it for you.

    I think you would come out well within budget and keep your "Trouble and Strife" happy.
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  9. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

    lsiberian
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    That's certainly a great driver and is pretty much equal to the SI driver in performance. The cost is only like 20 dollars more, and you can get it now. A port would need to be a slot port IMO to handle the air. Ricci did get 105 db measured clean at 20 hz sealed with these drivers meaning you can get thx reference ground plane without a port. Either way you should still get an EQ system and measurement of some kind to get the most out of your sub. Minidsp has both for great prices. Personally I prefer simple builds, but I'm not a pro woodworker. I think you'd get more enjoyment out of building a ported end table build.
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  10. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    Well the wife asked me today if a new sub would be a good anniversary present. I answered honestly, 'Best present ever!' Now we have a more immediate build date :D

    So I guess I am in decision mode :rolleyes: or maybe this thread is.

    I like the daytons in the now kinda way. I am still interested in a ported design, the build should be more interesting :D Would I be able to tune the sub to 16-17hz and if so what would the unit size be? or would there be other drawbacks?

    The size of units ideally would be 24H * 18W * 32D (endtables;))
  11. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    I am looking at the iNuke. It doesn't have a trigger on, will it always be running? (I know the old sub was always on too) I would like to have something that would be idiot proof(for toddlers... and a wife that would be annoyed if there was an extra step involved).
  12. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

    lsiberian
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    Rarely can you tune under Fs and get good results. Plus you are talking a big box and a massive port. You will need some clearance on the sides for the driver. 3/4" at least. So 19.5. Unless you plan to tuck them toward the couch. If so make sure you have enough clearance for the driver. I'll work up a design when I get a chance for the Dayton driver.
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  13. lsiberian Audioholic Overlord

    lsiberian
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    Pro amps don't normally have a 12v trigger. If it's a real concern you can use a plate amp, but most folks don't really care about having the sub on. For me I like the manual mode.(My wife doesn't care for the bass.)
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  14. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    Those would be the drawbacks I was worrying about.

    I can fire them toward the couch, the arm sticks out past the side 5".

    Thanks so much!!
  15. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    You have a good point, my wife wouldn't care either. Actually she might prefer if there was no bass.:(
  16. TLS Guy Audioholic Overlord

    TLS Guy
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    That is not the way you design any bass alignment, unless you are some commercial lout, playing th spec game.

    The right question is what is the est overall design for a given driver. Be suspicious of any alignment with F3 below Fs. It should be a little above.

    This is the optimal alignment for this driver.

    Name: Dayton Audio RSS460HO-4 18"
    Type: Standard one-way driver
    Company: Dayton Audio
    No. of Drivers = 1
    Fs = 19.6 Hz
    Qms = 3.9
    Vas = 297.9 liters
    Cms = 0.26 mm/N
    Mms = 425.9 g
    Rms = 8.008 kg/s
    Xmax = 12.75 mm
    Xmech = 19.13 mm
    P-Dia = 338.2 mm
    Sd = 1164 sq.cm
    P-Vd = 1.145 liters
    Qes = 0.43
    Re = 3.41 ohms
    Le = 2.1 mH
    Z = 4 ohms
    BL = 20.4 Tm
    Pe = 900 watts
    Qts = 0.39
    no = 0.503 %
    1-W SPL = 89.2 dB
    2.83-V SPL = 92.87 dB
    -----------------------------------------
    Box Properties
    Name:
    Type: Vented Box
    Shape: Prism, square (optimum)
    Vb = 7.672 cu.ft
    Fb = 19.05 Hz
    QL = 5.549
    F3 = 22.48 Hz
    Fill = minimal
    No. of Vents = 1
    Vent shape = rectangle
    Vent ends = one flush
    Hv = 3 in
    Wv = 14 in
    Lv = 37.29 in

    That gives you a F3 of 22.5 Hz. With 900 watts you achieve and spl. of 120db. At 18 Hz it is 7 db down for an spl of 113db.

    Vent velocity is 17 m/sec.

    The biggest problem is that the cabinet is quite large, and when you add driver, vent and bracing you will be around 10 cu.ft.
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  17. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    So this cabinet should finish out to be 24*24*32? That gives the the volume and adds feet.
  18. TLS Guy Audioholic Overlord

    TLS Guy
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    I have calculated the vent and driver displacement volumes, that adds 1.246 cu.ft. So your Vt will be 8.918 cu.ft. + the volume of your figure of 8 bracing. I can't obviously calculate that volume, as it is up to you to draw your cabinet plans. The fill is already allowed for.

    So your job is simple make a box of internal air volume of 9 cu.ft + brace volume.

    This is your model file.
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  19. ARES24 Full Audioholic

    ARES24
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    Thanks TLS!!

    Does the orientation of the box make a difference? (i.e. downfiring vs front firing vs side firing - both driver and vent)

    I do have a question that I am sure is way over my head, it was mentioned that the T/S parameters are in the 'sweet spot' for this driver. How does one tell if the specs are good? I understand some of the terms and measurements in a spec sheet having read up on them but that doesn't translate into real world knowledge very well for me.

    Hopefully I will be able to research my DSP options tonight, I am sure I will have questions!
  20. TLS Guy Audioholic Overlord

    TLS Guy
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    You don't need DSP options. I designed that unit to be plug and play.

    The box will have high spl, with higher than average sensitivity, and no ripple. The Qts is in the sweet spot and bass will be well controlled.

    You can't Eq a ported box anyway. The spl, is so high that even in your space I do not believe a high pass subsonic filter is required.

    All you have to do is build the box, and really brace with figure of 8 bracing. (go to the Fuzz sub build thread for that). Cover 50% of the inside walls with Polyfill.

    Get the volume right and the vent the correct dimensions and the box will work. Select an amp in the 450 to 900 watt range into 4 ohms and enjoy.

    I designed you are cost effective sub, that will sound good and fill your space. You won't have to fuss or over think this one. You say you are a woodworker, so you have an advantage on most, as sound strong airtight construction is what you need. Use dado joints and not butt joints. If you use pre veneered board you will save yourself a lot of expense and hassle.

    All you have to do is draw your cutting plans and build it. You can point the driver anyway you want, but I do have a bias against down firing. Put the port opening on the same face as the driver.
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