cable 'break in' ...........

[mtrycrafts]

That graph has no merit at all for at least three reasons:

1. I looked closely at the graph, I can read the horizontal axis (frequency response), but I cannot read the label on the vertical axis. What is being measured? This is of major importance. The fact that it's obscured suggests to me that someone may not want us to read it. If the poster wants readers to believe his graph, it should be clearly readable.
   
   
2. The graph shows a red curve (burned in) and a black curve (no burn in) with some differences between the two curves. Are those differences significant or minor? More important, can anyone hear these differences. There is no information about that.
   
   
3. Finally, the person who posted that graph also sells a 'cable cooker'. Presumably it performs cable break in, for a price.

At this point, alarm bells should be sounding off in your head.

And, the 4 th reason is who knows what and how this was recorded, how honest this is. Was the cable parameters also measure before and after? Do they even have the necessary equipment to do so?
There should be 0 difference. Why would resistance change? Or the other parameters?

 

[ski2xblack]

trust me, no harm being felt at all, all I'm trying to do is see if sensible discussion / rationale can be made of any of it and I know the general consensus is not.

I have for years argued with a lot of the crazy 'umpteen hour break in' crowd that the power of psychoacoustics is at work, but to no avail.

The greatest harm is to give those guys credence and actually waste money on things like ridiculously expensive cables and cable burn-in machines (really??).

But even if you don't drink the kool-aid, it's still harmful. You have clearly wasted precious time on this, time you'll never recover. In addition to that harm, if you have any technical knowledge of electronics and/or human psychology and/or respect for rational discourse, it must have been terribly frustrating to ague for years with such nitwits, which probably had a high cost on your cheerfulness, and possibly your good health as well.

 

[lovinthehd]

ok, here's a link to the discussion that made me pose the question here in hopes I would get a no nonsense engineering answer .......

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23900-Now-long-do-cables-take-to-break-in

Wow. Just wow. Whatsbest, eh....will have to look around for some more funny threads

 

[Pogre]

Thank you, for giving me a chuckle! Been sick the last couple days. I'm just starting to feel human again. Ima read some more on the merits of burn in and the like...

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thank you, for giving me a chuckle! Been sick the last couple days. I'm just starting to feel human again. Ima read some more on the merits of burn in and the like...

Probably just burn your eyeballs!

 

[lovinthehd]

Someone linked this thread on the whatsbest thread.

Here's one subsequent comment:

"That audio alcoholic thread is funnier than this thread because they don't have any argument except one of ignorance. All cables carry audio signal and the largest impedement to the the faithful transmission of that audio signal is current EMI. The trick is to separate the audio signal from the EMI hash. That can be done in two methods:

1. By engineering the cable to separate the signal from EMI
2. Create a parallel circuit for the extraction of EMI

Btw this can be measured, but very few do.
Now if the parallel circuit is sufficient then a exotic cable is less of a need. A good example is pro audio recording industry even going back to the late 1950's.
Cable break in is real because most cables use a designed passive network to separate the audio signal from current EMI and as pointed out by DaveC can effect the current draw by the amplifier which effects the sound dispersion pattern of the speakers. The overall clarity of the system is dependent on the level of signal integrity. The reproduction of sound is only limited by the quality of the capturing microphone and distortion is a non issue once current EMI is eliminated. The overall clarity of most recordings proves this."

And this after that from a moderator (which tells you just how that forum works I suppose)

"If one actually uses their ears? This is not rocket science, folks..."

Yeah, they really know what's "best"! ROFLMAO

PS Just noticed they have a whole Audio Cable Forum there! I'm dying here.

 

[jinjuku]

I wouldn't worry about Steve. He's so insecure that he's effectively culled almost anybody that pushes back with empirical approaches to really thinking how this stuff works.

So much so that Amir (the guy that was in charge of Windows WASAPI replacing KMixer, has a technical Emmy or two) a co-founder of WBF left and started up another site.

To intimate that a cable is an EMI FILTER outside of standard shielding and it's LCR properties is just bizarre and shows how much most golden ear audiophiles don't know. Trust me you could fill encyclopedias with it.

Just ask Trietz (he's a polkie also) how many times ZLTFul rescheduled an Ethernet cable bias controlled challenge (and then backed out entirely). Or how many people took up the $100 cable burn in challenge. That thread is frakking comedy gold:

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/1437044

Scroll half way down for my initial offer.

Drop that on the thread at WBF and let the hilarity ensue.

Bottom line is 90% of the people at WBF couldn't hold paint brushes here on their best day.

 

[lovinthehd]

I wouldn't worry about Steve. He's so insecure that he's effectively culled almost anybody that pushes back with empirical approaches to really thinking how this stuff works.

So much so that Amir (the guy that was in charge of Windows WASAPI replacing KMixer, has a technical Emmy or two) a co-founder of WBF left and started up another site.

To intimate that a cable is an EMI FILTER outside of standard shielding and it's LCR properties is just bizarre and shows how much most golden ear audiophiles don't know. Trust me you could fill encyclopedias with it.

Just ask Trietz (he's a polkie also) how many times ZLTFul rescheduled an Ethernet cable bias controlled challenge (and then backed out entirely). Or how many people took up the $100 cable burn in challenge. That thread is frakking comedy gold:

http://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/comment/1437044

Scroll half way down for my initial offer.

Drop that on the thread at WBF and let the hilarity ensue.

Bottom line is 90% of the people at WBF couldn't hold paint brushes here on their best day.

I thought Amir had something to do with that site. Just don't say j*****.

I recognize some other famous 'phools, er believers, in the polk thread. Good grief.

 

[MrBoat]

I swear it's that you guys are just famous for the unfoolery and other forums send these plants to rattle your cables. I started out in electronics and hated it, but learned just enough to be dangerous without the electrocution hazard. I work with someone who is a 30 year EE and works with climate extremes/vibration chambers for electronics that go either up to, or even beyond Earth's atmosphere and when I mention this stuff to him messing around even, I get "that" look.

To be honest, having come across these bits of witchcraft is what steered me from internet based, modern audio on my revisit to the hobby. Thankfully, you folks here at AH were believably grounded in consistent, common sense, and I could just forget the nonsense I had been exposed to.

 

[jinjuku]

I thought Amir had something to do with that site. Just don't say j******.

I recognize some other famous 'phools, er believers, in the polk thread. Good grief.

Amir was trying to bring a semblance of critical thinking there but alas Steve's delusional.

There's another great thread at WBF where someone was adamant that you could store jitter in a file (outside of anything that normally happens in the recording process) as it was copied over a network and then saved.

It was one of those laugh / cringe / cry moments by Golden Ears that think they actually know anything about how modern audio works.

 

[Swerd]

… I work with someone who is a 30 year EE and works with climate extremes/vibration chambers for electronics that go either up to, or even beyond Earth's atmosphere and when I mention this stuff to him messing around even, I get "that" look.

Did "that" look resemble this?

 

[killdozzer]

but it's so funny...

in comes a guy who has ShaktiStones an Electromagnetic stabilizer made by the company which brought you Hallograph Soundfield Optimizer (now you can have your sound field hallographicly optimized in the comfort of your home) and it's him that says "How can we be certain that what's going on is cable break-in and not ear break-in". It is almost tragic, as if we were witnessing a faintest glimpse of brain function that was immediately scared away.

 

[killdozzer]

After I laughed I got sad and depressed.

 

[jinjuku]

Zenwave doesn't sell a cable cooker and posts have been updated to reflect that.

Other than that I would like to know the procedure so I can attempt to repeat it. People are reading this cross thread.

I'm also encouraging your ears only evaluation of burned in vs non-burned in cables. You do Axpona?

As a moderator here my job is manifold:

1. Promote reasonably courteous discourse. If you are way out there with unsupportable claims sorry. You're going to get some flack. Think anti-vaxxers.

2. Ask for posters to be accurate as they can be in post and any presented data.

As far as " I'd also point out that blatant lies with the intent to harm another are not acceptable."

and

"the moderator there would allow that kind of behavior"

Any behavior deemed problematic can be reported. Anyone can sign up an account here, not even bother posting in any thread here and still either report or PM me.

I'm allowing behavior here that is well within the TOS.

 

[everettT]

Made thru page 2 of the WBF thread and realized I got caught in a circle jerk. Must be nice to be a snake oil vendor there.

 

[Pogre]

I would love to see anyone making these claims to take jinjuku up on his challenge. If they can pick out the ones that are burned in, it's an easy hundred bucks.

Nobody ever does it tho...

 

[killdozzer]

Zenwave doesn't sell a cable cooker and posts have been updated to reflect that.

Visiting zenwave.com makes it worse. He's not selling cable cookers, but the very reason people might think they need one. To be fair to Swerd, he wasn't far off.

 

[jinjuku]

Visiting zenwave.com makes it worse. He's not selling cable cookers, but the very reason people might think they need one. To be fair to Swerd, he wasn't far off.

The real issue is Zenwave posting something like they did but scant documentation. Parties that are truly earnest in discovery will fully disclose the procedure as it gives them validity.

I've asked for the process so it can be repeated. I have the requisite gear to measure.

 

[3db]

As an Electrical Engineer, I can assure you that there is no such thing as cable break in. Its just one of these absurd lies to make insecure audiphhols think they have superior hearing when in fact, it's just their imagination tricking them into something that's not.

 

[Pogre]

We're ignorant cable people! Ha ha ha! I s'pose my ignorance allows me to hold onto my money so I can spend it on actual improvements in sq. This burn in thing cracks me up. People sell cable burners?! How much are they? Wow.

Something like this might go well over there. Some of the customers put them right on their cables. Changes the sound entirely. I'll bet they cut the burn in time in half.