Cable Box HDMI May Not Talk to Receivers

[SamCasey111]

HDMI Cables

In response to numerous threads about this issue we have developed this ongoing sticky to address the issue and let everyone know of productive workarounds and the status of various cable company fix
I am having difficulties with the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD (cableTV) box's HDMI output when used in conjunction with an HDMI-switching/upconverting receiver.

When plugging the cable box directly into the HDMI display - the signal is transmitted correctly... When going through the receiver via HDMI, the TV does not get the signal and instead an error message is displayed (or nothing
When pursuing the topic with Yamaha Electronics' product engineers, they reported that this is a known issue and is on the Cable box end (Denon's engineers also concurred):

This Problem lays with the Cable box. It is not an HDCP issue. It has to do with HDMI 1.0 compliance. Neither Scientific Atlanta or Motorola boxes were originally designed to recognize a "REPEATER" (a repeater is a switching device in the HDMI format). Among other things it is able to pick off the audio bitstream from the HDMI signal. [These receivers are] much more than just a switch!

Conversations with S/A revealed that they have an upgrade algorithm that is available to local cable companies. However, the typical cable company takes 60 to 90 days [more like 6 months in our experience - Admin] to issue a firmware update blasts to their customers.

They are continually sending updates to their boxes but only after rigorous compatibilty testing with all other software being used in their systems.

According to [Scientific Atlanta] we should [have started seeing] boxes being updated by late November 2005 - but again they stress that it's totally up to the local cable companies to decide how urgently to attack this issue.

Please note that this is not a Yamaha/Denon/Pioneer/etc issue. Currently all HDMI switching receivers will produce the same results. (The only exceptions are certain products that act as a simple switch, not performing HDMI 1.1-specific functions with regards to scaling and audio process
The ultimate solution is a firmware fix by the manufacturer. This part has been completed - however, the cable companies have not yet finished testing this firmware fix (and some have not yet started). From what I am hearing, many of the cable companies may not be equipped to fully test HDMI issues as they may not have HDMI-upconverting receivers in their headend. Audioholics is actually working with one of the local cable companies now to see if we can help them test a new firmware fix for this problem. Since we have two different setups with different upconverting HDMI receivers this should be very productiv
The workarounds for now include the
[*]Route video from the digital cable box directly to your television. This may not a good solution for those who have displays without multiple digital inputs as it will leave your DVD player's HDMI/DVI output with nowhere to go and defeats all of the convenient features of having a receiver with HDMI upconversion, or<br>

[*]Purchase an HDMI switcher and route the output of the receiver to one input, and the output of the cable box directly to another input. Feed the output of the switcher directly to your digital display. This gives you a direct connection for the cable box that bypasses the receiver, but also allows you to use the receiver's output to upconvert your other sources.<br>

[*]BY ALL MEANS contact your local CableTV company and get ahold of a supervisor (customer service phone representatives typically won't understand or care about your problem). Make sure they are directed to this thread and begin the process of implementing this firmware fix immediately since it could take some time to release to the general public. Remember that regardless of what they say this is NOT an HDCP-related issue or anything having to do with the receiver. This is important as the typical troubleshooting steps will lead them to think it is a compatibility problem with the receiver. Until demand for a fix is increased, they will be very content to not implement any additional firmware updates that could create additional problems and drain resources (this isn't evil, it's actually good business).[/LIST]An abbreviated list of HDCP-compliant HDMI/DVI S


There are many more, but we thought we'd provide a shameless plug of some of our advertisers' products her
We want this thread to be productive and helpful, so here are the posting rules for this thread... We'll keep it open to the general public but Admins will edit any/every post as we see fit - just expect this and you won't be disappointed. Posts that are not helpful or productive in pointing out workarounds will be deleted leaving a nice breadcrumb trail of solutions, updates and workarounds. Thanks for understanding.[/QUOTE/
tanks a lot man. I just bought 2 HDMI 1.3 cables. LOL They don't work with Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. Thanks for your help. Calling my cable company tomorrow!

 

[TLS Guy]

This is a bad problem and I have fielded a number of calls since Christmas.

Your options are to connect your cable/satellite box/HD DVR to your TV with component video.

The other option is to use an HDMI switcher. This one should work, as some of the designers who made such a dog's dinner of the HDMI connection with the DRM system known as HDCP compliance, are now trying to make a buck sorting out the mess they helped create.

http://www.radiient.com/Radiient-Select-4-Four-Input-HDMI-Switch-Repeater

I had to change my Direct TV HD DVR in October. It does not work with my Gefen switcher that was only 18 months old. The previous HD DVR did. Gefen have been about to introduce a switcher that they say will solve the problem.

I know Mr DeBoer thinks this vale of tears that is HDMI HDCP will improve. (Personal Communication) I'm unconvinced. I agree with Steve Jobst that we need to end this DRM arms race. It is illegal anyhow, as it violates existing fair use statutes.

This outfit is trying to use legal means to stop this unnecessary arms race.

http://www.eff.org/issues/digital-video

Here is a link to a thread I started after fielding problems after Christmas

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39089

This is why Mr DeBoer thinks things will improve. I'm not persuaded at all, but time will tell.

Hi TLS,

You're somewhat attacking the wrong people... HDCP has been a cluster because Silicon Image (aka HDMI Licensing LLC, aka SimPlay Labs, aka PanelLink) didn't add HDCP into it's exhaustive spec until late this year.

Basically it was every manufacturer for themselves... They then charged them exorbitant fees (via Simplay and their expensive ATC testing/certification process) to do the "best they could" to ensure interoperability.

Now that the HDCP spec is integrated into the ATC spec for HDMI I seriously doubt things will get worse. In fact, it's now finally possible for them to get better.

- Clint.

In any event the HDMI connection was an excellent digital interface, until the Hollywood crowd set up Digital Protection Corp. They introduced these wretched six digital codes that have to make repeated wobbly handshakes and ruined the HDMI interface.

 

[patnshan]

Intersting. I use that exact same cable box, the 8300HD DVR. I have it going into a Yamaha RXV-661 and then into the panny AX100U. I have not had one problem with the configuration. I have a SA 4250 HD as well and that one works too.
Is it individual box specific? Maybe you could switch out the box?
Good luck,
Pat

 

[TLS Guy]

Intersting. I use that exact same cable box, the 8300HD DVR. I have it going into a Yamaha RXV-661 and then into the panny AX100U. I have not had one problem with the configuration. I have a SA 4250 HD as well and that one works too.
Is it individual box specific? Maybe you could switch out the box?
Good luck,
Pat

It could be box specific and or receiver specific. It all depends on the date of manufacture and which version of HDCP is being supported. By my count there are 8 versions out there not including errata corrections, and there are two or three of those. Digital Protection Corp LLP are now taking comments for a ninth version. I don't see a rational end to this short of scrapping the whole rotten idea.

If the box works with the TV but not the receiver, then either the box or receiver do not have the correct repeater architecture for the six digital keys that have to make repeated wobbly handshakes. A TV is not required to have repeater architecture, as it is an end device. In other words it does not output HDMI data streams

 

[K.Zapp]

TWC of NE Ohio (blowing smoke?) I hope not

My quick disscussion with a TWC rep for NE Ohio said that the software for this problem is still in progress and there will be an announcement before it is launched. Even if this is true, this could be anytime between now and the next five years...as he did not elaborate

 

[jfkebk1]

Question

I am just setting up my system, and I am totaly new at this so please forgive me if I seem ignorant on the subject. I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD cable box and a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. When I connect the HDMI cable through the Yamaha I get a great picture, but no sound and when I hook the cable directly from the 8300HD I get great picture and sound. Is this realated to the software/hardware issues your discussing here?

 

[bandphan]

I am just setting up my system, and I am totaly new at this so please forgive me if I seem ignorant on the subject. I have a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD cable box and a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. When I connect the HDMI cable through the Yamaha I get a great picture, but no sound and when I hook the cable directly from the 8300HD I get great picture and sound. Is this realated to the software/hardware issues your discussing here?

How do you have the hdmi set in the receiver? Is the no sound thru the speakers or tv?

 

[jfkebk1]

The no sound is through the TV speakers, I did not do anything special when I plugged in the HDMI, but when I select the DTV/CBL input the HDMI icon on my receiver does light up.

 

[bandphan]

The no sound is through the TV speakers, I did not do anything special when I plugged in the HDMI, but when I select the DTV/CBL input the HDMI icon on my receiver does light up.

set the receiver to passthru or add an a set of analog inputs to go with the hdmi on the cbl/sat input., this is also a good idea for all digital inputs if you every run a second zone, as most avrs cant send digital signals to the zone outputs...

 

[siegeld]

I'm having the same problem routing HDMI from a Scientific Atlanta HD4250 via a Denon receiver. So, though years have gone by, this problem is not fixed, at least with Cablevision in the New York area.

Is there any reason why I should not just take component output from the cable box and have the Denon receiver upconvert this to HDMI, and send that to the television? I'm wondering if this will work with copy protected content coming out of the cable box.

 

[engtaz]

Having same problem with Marantz. I just unplug and replug HDMI cable on back of cable box.

 

[TLS Guy]

I'm having the same problem routing HDMI from a Scientific Atlanta HD4250 via a Denon receiver. So, though years have gone by, this problem is not fixed, at least with Cablevision in the New York area.

Is there any reason why I should not just take component output from the cable box and have the Denon receiver upconvert this to HDMI, and send that to the television? I'm wondering if this will work with copy protected content coming out of the cable box.

Most receivers will not up convert component to HDMI. It would not be allowed for copy protected material.

 

[Hi Ho]

Most receivers will not up convert component to HDMI. It would not be allowed for copy protected material.

Many receivers do this. All Yamahas from the 665 and up do this as well as all of the current Denon models (as far as I can tell).

 

[Cavediver]

Most receivers will not up convert component to HDMI. It would not be allowed for copy protected material.

Most receivers will convert component to HDMI, but won't convert HDMI to component.

 

[Tunup]

Buckeye cable in NW, Ohio needs competition badly. They want customers to hdmi directly to tv from thier Pace hd,dvr's. This is their way of help. Cable companies & DRM have made recording from DVD/VCRs combo recorders & even their own STB DVR,S using hdmi such a hassel people have given up. This is just what they want so you use their HD DVRs at cost. There has to be better programing of over the air networks for free. HDMI is even a better signal by indoor/outdoor antennas.. I for one hate Cable tv & their bad treament of customers. Now their toying around with part control of Internet speed cost affecting education cost. Buckeye Cable doesn't give customers manuals on their 3 types of Pace DVRs. Why, they don't want customers to know about the boxes. They send an amature to plug them in & you pay. for a STB thhat has reconditioned they don.t fully work 100% anymore. It's a really bad cable company. They forewarn nobody about their contract issues with networks, cutting off tv programs without notice. I suspect there may be class-action lawsuits brought against them for handing out shoddy equipment.
.

 

[jben04]

Just replaced my older denon1613 with a newer X2100W ( using a Tivo box) ,, now im having the problem thats described in this thread,, i cant believe this is still an issue....

 

[Jeffrey S. Albaugh]

We have Verizon FIOS service. We weren't 100% satisied. We bought 2 Roku's and do enjoy them, but, my family prefers the DVR. I didn't love it mainly because the Hard Drive was only 320 GB. Our DVR was always overloaded. Then Verizon caolled us and offered us something new called FIOS Quantum. I was skeptical, but we went for it. It is really awesome. It has 6 Tuners & a 1 TB HD. We love it. We have yet to get even close to a full HD (They also offer one with 12 Tuners & 2 TB HD. I don't think we need that. My absolute favorite channel is one called AXS TV (Mark Cuban). Great Concerts.Music & groups are the main focus. They also offer other things like Fights, Wrestling, New Japan Wrestling, X Factor, Nashville, & much more. This is my Go To Channel. Lately, I have barely used Roku. This may change. Who knows. We won't change anything anytime soon.