Axiom Audio LFR1100 Tower Loudspeaker Preview

[ErinH]

where are the vertical and horizontal polars? claiming 'omnidirectional' without data to illustrate potential nulls in the xyz plane isn't really helpful.

 

[a_ok2me]

Expensive to Pay to Ship it Back

At some point the customer has to accept that they are the ones making the purchase, complete with a 30 day audition / return period for all $2400 spent on the product. If the customer is not satisfied with the product, then they are able to return the product and purchase somethign else.

You have to be careful here; if you don't like it then you have to pay several hundred dollars to ship it back. I have m80v2 and the sound is good, but the veneer is poor for my taste. If you bought all 7.2 like I did, it get's very expensive to ship hundreds of pounds back.

Don't get me wrong, I like the company and products but "I" might prefer to spend a little more for something else. Axiom might be just right for others.

 

[gtpsuper24]

where are the vertical and horizontal polars? claiming 'omnidirectional' without data to illustrate potential nulls in the xyz plane isn't really helpful.

I doubt we will ever see them, unless Gene/Audioholics can truely test a pair. Axiom doesn't even provide Off Axis responses, so polars aren't likely.

You have to be careful here; if you don't like it then you have to pay several hundred dollars to ship it back. I have m80v2 and the sound is good, but the veneer is poor for my taste. If you bought all 7.2 like I did, it get's very expensive to ship hundreds of pounds back.

Don't get me wrong, I like the company and products but "I" might prefer to spend a little more for something else. Axiom might be just right for others.

I would guess that if you purchased the M80s and a VP180 you'll be close to $200 to ship back. $60-80 each to ship. Thats the biggest draw back of purchasing ID brands, besides Aperion with picks up shipping both ways, but its built into the final price too.

 

[a_ok2me]

I would guess that if you purchased the M80s and a VP180 you'll be close to $200 to ship back. $60-80 each to ship. Thats the biggest draw back of purchasing ID brands, besides Aperion with picks up shipping both ways, but its built into the final price too.

Not sure if there might be something that can be worked out with Axiom by using their account to reduce the cost to $200. But if you were to ship it yourself via ground freight 7 days, class 50, I came up with $700 UPS and $850 FedEx at ~330lbs for 8 pieces. Packaging is ~1.22x the item weight.

 

[GranteedEV]

Apparantly they're calling this the LFR1100:

LFR1100 Speaker - AxiomAudio

 

[billy p]

I can't see even the most devoted or loyal Axiomite stepping up and buying these speakers? Even at the introductory price of $2790.00pr most customers who gravitate towards Axiom do so because they offer value...these speakers are not likely their target audience...but more of a niche group or community...IMO.

Good luck to them....

I wonder if they'll offer a trade up program like Ascend did for recent owners of their tower speakers...it would be nice.....

 

[Wid]

Axiom did at one point offer a trade up program but it has since been discontinued.

I've owned Axiom speakers since 2003 (M80s) but at the price point of these new speakers I'm afraid I'd be looking at a wide variety of other brands before I'd consider these new offerings.

No offense to Axiom, I like what I have but once you consider having to buy amplification along with the speakers you're getting into the realm of some pretty serious contenders.

 

[cschang]

Maybe this is more of a "statement" product to attract more customers.

 

[MinusTheBear]

One hurdle I do see is that at $3k+ selling price the cabinet is still vinyl wrapped. To add a real wood veneer or piano finish on top of that then you are at a point with more options in the high end speaker market. People willing to spend $3k on speakers will discriminate against vinyl wrap. I wish they would have done a re-design on the cabinet to substantially differentiate it from the rest of the M-series.

It is still a cool product and it definitely makes a statement. Hopefully you can get a pair of these Gene and test them through your A1400-8 and bring back good karma between AH and Axiom.

 

[billy p]

One hurdle I do see is that at $3k+ selling


the cabinet is still vinyl wrapped. To add a real wood veneer or piano finish on top of that then you are at a point with more options in the high end speaker market. People willing to spend $3k on speakers will discriminate against vinyl wrap. I wish they would have done a re-design on the cabinet to substantially differentiate it from the rest of the M-series.

It is still a cool product and it definitely makes a statement. Hopefully you can get a pair of these Gene and test them through your A1400-8 and bring back good karma between AH and Axiom.

Just the pesimist in me but I think the only way Audioholics reviews that speaker is if they buy it...jk.

Just being honest here!

 

[GranteedEV]

Not to get off topic, but I just wanted to address something so that I'm not misinterpreted:

The M80s measure very well. Oh, nice un-smoothed graphs you got there. Funny how other people couldn't find these...

To be honest, I don't think they do measure all that well. It's acceptable performance on the grand scale, but here is the Axiom M80 measurement a second time:

The peakiness around 2.2khz IMO is very undesirable behavior. Now that's probably the crossover region so it may be possible it alleviates off-axis vertically but anyone listening on-axis would hear this. This is a frequency region where our ears are very acute.

Compare to something like this Revel speaker

Forgetting any other frequency region, the flatness in the 2khz region is the main focus.

Now that's just on-axis response. What's especially problematic is that in the same crossover region, you've got a transition from a larger midrange to a flush mount tweeter, again back to measurement I posted earlier:

When I posted it, I didn't feel it was a good measurement at all. In fact it shows a power response dip in the midrange. Now these dips are not a big deal as long as they are consistent with the rise in response, however here it is accompanies by a flareup - that's a LOT of energy in that same 2.2khz region. Compare again to the Revel :

These are what I would call excellent measurements.

These two things are probably why Fred didn't like the presentation of female vocals from the axioms, if I had to guess. Based on the first report of the LFR1100;

The Official Axiom Speakers Thread - Page 97 - Blu-ray Forum

it seems that same issue is popping up, which is unfortunate. His subjective impressions:

The refinance of the mids , not there , a lot of head room ( yes they can be loud without hurting your ears , but at a certain point i see ppl getting tired of listen to them when hearing some instruments specially the metal ones )

Seemingly track to the objective measurements. I wouldn't be surprised if the LFR1100s have the same on and off-axis response issues as the M80s. I still don't quite understand what they're trying to sell with the rear firing mids/tweeters but it doesn't seem they've addressed the fundamental issue with their speakers.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Not to get off topic, but I just wanted to address something so that I'm not misinterpreted:



To be honest, I don't think they do measure all that well. It's acceptable performance on the grand scale, but here is the Axiom M80 measurement a second time:

The peakiness around 2.2khz IMO is very undesirable behavior. Now that's probably the crossover region so it may be possible it alleviates off-axis vertically but anyone listening on-axis would hear this. This is a frequency region where our ears are very acute.

Compare to something like this Revel speaker

Forgetting any other frequency region, the flatness in the 2khz region is the main focus.

Now that's just on-axis response. What's especially problematic is that in the same crossover region, you've got a transition from a larger midrange to a flush mount tweeter, again back to measurement I posted earlier:

When I posted it, I didn't feel it was a good measurement at all. In fact it shows a power response dip in the midrange. Now these dips are not a big deal as long as they are consistent with the rise in response, however here it is accompanies by a flareup - that's a LOT of energy in that same 2.2khz region. Compare again to the Revel :

These are what I would call excellent measurements.

These two things are probably why Fred didn't like the presentation of female vocals from the axioms, if I had to guess. Based on the first report of the LFR1100;

The Official Axiom Speakers Thread - Page 97 - Blu-ray Forum

it seems that same issue is popping up, which is unfortunate. His subjective impressions:



Seemingly track to the objective measurements. I wouldn't be surprised if the LFR1100s have the same on and off-axis response issues as the M80s. I still don't quite understand what they're trying to sell with the rear firing mids/tweeters but it doesn't seem they've addressed the fundamental issue with their speakers.

That's what I am curious about to if the DSP can control issues such as the off-axis lobing. I'm also curious what type of slopes are used in the passive crossover.

 

[billy p]

Sounds like Axiom Audio was compromised today....I don't see any offical release but here is a link regarding the issue...

Canuck Audio Mart • View topic - Axiom Audio

Just trying to make others unaware....aware....

 

[billy p]

Here is the latest from Amie at Axiom


Hi there and sorry to ‘meet you’ under these circumstances.

As you may imagine, security is definitely not something we take lightly at Axiom. After receiving this call, we immediately contacted our security experts and began auditing our website.

In order to eliminate all possible threats, we made an emergency site move to a new brand new machine, moving our content file-by-file and auditing each file as we went. In doing so, we located a hole in one of our vendor’s APIs that was the root cause of this situation. We have now rewritten the offending code completely and added additional security measures on our new server environment to ensure your information's security.

You may have noticed the website go down during the transition. It is back up now and secure.

My deepest apologies for this problem. Please rest assured we take this problem very seriously, and we have implemented a number of extra security measures today to ensure that we don’t have any compromises in the future.

I hope you’ll understand the lack of technical details around the issue – unfortunately this is a case of ‘the less said the better’.

With sincere apologies,

Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

 

[gene]

Here is the latest from Amie at Axiom


Hi there and sorry to ‘meet you’ under these circumstances.

As you may imagine, security is definitely not something we take lightly at Axiom. After receiving this call, we immediately contacted our security experts and began auditing our website.

In order to eliminate all possible threats, we made an emergency site move to a new brand new machine, moving our content file-by-file and auditing each file as we went. In doing so, we located a hole in one of our vendor’s APIs that was the root cause of this situation. We have now rewritten the offending code completely and added additional security measures on our new server environment to ensure your information's security.

You may have noticed the website go down during the transition. It is back up now and secure.

My deepest apologies for this problem. Please rest assured we take this problem very seriously, and we have implemented a number of extra security measures today to ensure that we don’t have any compromises in the future.

I hope you’ll understand the lack of technical details around the issue – unfortunately this is a case of ‘the less said the better’.

With sincere apologies,

Amie Colquhoun
Axiom Audio

Nothing worse than when your site gets hacked. Our site fell victim to something similar twice over the last 5 years or so. It's grueling when it happens to you and I feel their pain.

Nobody for a second should doubt that Axiom wouldn't resolve fraudulent charges for their customers.

It reminds me we need to upgrade the forum software on Audioholics as its a few revisions behind the current version of VBulletin. We loath upgrading because it usually breaks the customized code and tweaks we make to the site.

 

[fredk]

Not to get off topic, but I just wanted to address something so that I'm not misinterpreted:

Hmmm... really? The $1,100 M80 compared to the $10 K Revel Studio? To me that's like being pissed that your Chevy Malibu doesn't go around the track like than nice shiny Ferrari.

Compared to other speakers in its price class at the time, the M80 measured very well. I can't say if they still do or not as I am not in the market.

The peakiness around 2.2khz IMO is very undesirable behavior.

What would the audible manifestation be?

That peak is about 2 db, and it is quite wide, so yes, it would be audible. I suspect it would be subtle though.

Now that's just on-axis response.

The first graph is on axis, 15 and 30 degrees off axis, all overlaid. Again, compared to other speakers in its price range, the M80 looked very good.

These are what I would call excellent measurements.

At $10 grand, I should hope so, and again, I would not expect an $1,100 speaker to measure the same.

These two things are probably why Fred didn't like the presentation of female vocals from the axioms, if I had to guess.

Now that is a complete mis-representation. Nowhere did I say I did not like the presentation of the M3. In fact, for the price, the presentation is very good, just not 805D good.

See, there's that price thing again. The M3 is $300, the 805 Diamond I was comparing it to is $5,000. For 5 grand, I would expect a better performance.

Again, the surprise was how well the M3 stood up, and in fact, on sound-stage surpassed the 805D.

If I had a Scrooge Mc Duck sized vault full of money, I would buy me a Ferrari (well, actually a Bugatti ) and some fancy schmancy speakers. Since I don't, I look for value and IMO Axiom still offers that.

 

[fredk]

Maybe I need more than one Scrooge McDuck vault...

 

[GranteedEV]

Hmmm... really? The $1,100 M80 compared to the $10 K Revel Studio? To me that's like being pissed that your Chevy Malibu doesn't go around the track like than nice shiny Ferrari.

There is nothing about the measurement itself that price would prevent. I could have listed other examples but I wanted to keep consistent to the soundstage measurements.

That peak is about 2 db, and it is quite wide, so yes, it would be audible. I suspect it would be subtle though.

At 2khz? Doubtful. In fact it correlates to a lot of the subjective stuff I read about axioms.

The first graph is on axis, 15 and 30 degrees off axis, all overlaid. Again, compared to other speakers in its price range, the M80 looked very good.

Not sure what those other speakers are, but these are measurements that should be excellent regardless of "price range". Fixing it would take an extra few dollars at most.

At $10 grand, I should hope so, and again, I would not expect an $1,100 speaker to measure the same.

Why not? Again, these are not measurements that are closely correlated to price point. The Infinity P362 is one such example of very similar measurements to the Studio. The Pioneer BS41 is yet another.

See, there's that price thing again. The M3 is $300, the 805 Diamond I was comparing it to is $5,000. For 5 grand, I would expect a better performance.

But why are you assuming that the 805 Diamond is represntative of what you should expect for 5 grand, or that $300 is an excuse for a peaky midrange?

I'm not trying to argue with you, but things like voicing and off-axis response are simply not correlated with price point.

 

[3db]

I'm not trying to argue with you, but things like voicing and off-axis response are simply not correlated with price point.

Is it not reasonable to expect a $5K speaker to perform better than a $300? speaker? You and I can give examples of both where one another speaker models would clobber the other. However, this does not preclude expectations that a 5K speaker should outperform a $300 speaker. There are more resources available at $5K to get the critical midrange right than there is at $300 price point. Just sayin.

 

[haraldo]

Is it not reasonable to expect a $5K speaker to perform better than a $300? speaker? You and I can give examples of both where one another speaker models would clobber the other. However, this does not preclude expectations that a 5K speaker should outperform a $300 speaker. There are more resources available at $5K to get the critical midrange right than there is at $300 price point. Just sayin.

The discussion here is a $4k speaker vs a $10k speaker, I don't see any reason why a $4k speaker should not measure just as good as the more expensive one on the basic measurements. The added price tag is not about giving you a flatter response or better polar response but better performance in other aspects, like deeper bass or better macro dynamics or other things.