150hz or 80hz?

[TLS Guy]

here is another reply i got

Dead wrong on all counts!
First of all we don't know the sound if your room, because you have not let it speak. Please turn off the EQ, and report.

Next, 150 Hz is far too high to get a good blend with your system from a sub. Next a large woofer cone is much more likely to interact poorly with your room, especially in light of the problems you are experiencing and the room dimensions you gave.

You are not setting your system by public opinion, but on the advice of those with significant knowledge and experience.

I can tell you that with any speaker interface or crossover, working with the natural roll off of drivers tends to give the best result.

A lot of this bad advice is generated by THX, and the nonsense emanating from Lucas Labs. I have put together a wonderful system ignoring pretty much everything they have to say. Another issue I have with the unsatisfactory Hollywood crowd.

Fortunately I had great mentors and was privileged to have known some of the greatest pioneers in audio.

Please let your room speak. I think you will find your speakers are a lot better than you think, if you don't handicap them at the starting gate.

That "Chris chap" needs a lot of re education.

 

[ineedagirl69]

TLS guy which crossover do you think i should start at?

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS guy which crossover do you think i should start at?

Use only one crossover. Do not use the crossover in the sub, use the one in your receiver. Your speakers are pretty small, so set to small and set the crossover to 60Hz and then gradually advance the volume of your sub to optimum. Bear in mind that there is a strong tendency to set subs too loud.

Get used to the sound of that for a while, and I mean some hours of listening, and then see how it sounds with a crossover of 80 Hz. And TURN OFF all EQ for now.

I'm confident that you are in for a pleasant surprise.

 

[ineedagirl69]

ok im trying it right now, if i set the speakers to ....for example... 80hz and my sub to 120hz( thats the highest the onkyo goes) am i going to have a hole betweent 80 and 120? and vice versa. ain't the LFE input it own channel? it doesin't redirect anything to the speakers right? it just a brick wall filter.

 

[ineedagirl69]

ok so i left the crossover settings at 100hz for my fonts and center and 100hz for my sub, and my surrounds are at 120hz. i turned off the EQ and there's less boom, then i change the crossover on my sub down to 80hz and theres even less. infact with the same settings turning on and off the audyssey EQ reveals that with the EQ thers alot more boom and with no EQ its alot less. keep in mind i testing only one movie, casino royale on BD. but in that movie thers a scean with boom so im testing it with that. but its funny how the EQ is causing alot more boom than with it off, i though it was suppose to fix those problems......i guess you were right TLS, i am suprised.

 

[TLS Guy]

ok so i left the crossover settings at 100hz for my fonts and center and 100hz for my sub, and my surrounds are at 120hz. i turned off the EQ and there's less boom, then i change the crossover on my sub down to 80hz and theres even less. infact with the same settings turning on and off the audyssey EQ reveals that with the EQ thers alot more boom and with no EQ its alot less. keep in mind i testing only one movie, casino royale on BD. but in that movie thers a scean with boom so im testing it with that. but its funny how the EQ is causing alot more boom than with it off, i though it was suppose to fix those problems......i guess you were right TLS, i am suprised.

You have not got it yet. Do not use the crossover in the sub, switch it off! Do not cascade crossovers.

Set the speaker settings on your Onkyo to small and set the Onkyo crossover to 60 Hz. I have a feeling in your room 60 Hz crossover will sound best, but it might be 80 Hz. That way you will have no gap. It won't hurt the surrounds to go down to 60 Hz Set all speakers the same. I want you to get to one crossover. The crossover selected at first, by the F3 of your mains. Work your way up from there after extended listening. Change the crossover point to all speakers at once, and make the crossover point the same. Again bypass the sub crossover, you only want one!

 

[ineedagirl69]

yea im using a LFE input, so it bypasses the subs internal settings and i have to use the onkyo's. so now you want me to set all my speakers to 60hz correct? what about my sub? what should i set that to?

 

[TLS Guy]

yea im using a LFE input so it turns off by itself, so now you want me to set all my speakers to 60hz correct? what about my sub? what should i set that to?

Please set it to 60 Hz. Keep everything at 60 Hz for now and move everything together, for now, keeping all crossovers the same. I have a feeling it will be 60, but may be 80.

 

[ineedagirl69]

ok, and the onkyo can only go down to 80hz for the sub.

 

[TLS Guy]

ok, and the onkyo can only go down to 80hz for the sub.

Well 80 Hz it is then. That will probably do the trick. Set everything to 80 Hz

 

[ineedagirl69]

if i set the speakers to ....for example... 80hz and my sub to 120hz( thats the highest the onkyo goes) am i going to have a hole betweent 80 and 120? and vice versa. ain't the LFE input it own channel? it doesin't redirect anything to the speakers right? it just a brick wall filter.

what about this question?

 

[TLS Guy]

what about this question?

No you won't have a hole! The other sub will be overlapping the speakers, which is what I don't want right now. The filters are not brick wall, they are usually second order sometimes fourth. May be your manual tells you. That is why I want you to set everything including the sub to 80 Hz. Now it might be we can fine tune things with a little overlap, but from your room size I have felling that what I'm recommending now will be best.

Please do this and listen for a few hours and then post back.

 

[ineedagirl69]

ok thanks for your help, I will let you know in a few hours.

 

[no. 5]

Good stuff TLS!

Doing some quick calculations based on your room dimensions, it looks like there is a likelihood of some room modes stacking up around 130Hz, that means if the crossover was set at 150Hz (as the auto-setup did) it would sound pretty bad.

Now, I cannot guaranty that ~130Hz is were the problem is (construction and furniture can change things), but it does add more support to 80Hz being a better crossover.

 

[ineedagirl69]

ok so i wached some movies with everthing on 80hz and EQ turned off. the boom was definitely minimized, i dont wanna say gone because i think i heard a tiny bit. but that could just be me cause i was really paying attention to see if i heard any, and it just could have been the sound of the movie. but the way it sounded before i can say the boom seemed like it was gone. the movies i wached sound good with everything at 80hz, but they also sounded good with everything at 100hz also. where shoud i go from here?......another thing, sound and vision mag did a test with my speakers and they found the -3db point at 120hz http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1852/test-bench-definitive-technology-procinema-800-home-theater-speaker-system.html so should i leave it at 80hz? it doesint seem good to put it below 100hz.

 

[TLS Guy]

ok so i wached some movies with everthing on 80hz and EQ turned off. the boom was definitely minimized, i dont wanna say gone because i think i heard a tiny bit. but that could just be me cause i was really paying attention to see if i heard any, and it just could have been the sound of the movie. but the way it sounded before i can say the boom seemed like it was gone. the movies i wached sound good with everything at 80hz, but they also sounded good with everything at 100hz also. where shoud i go from here?......another thing, sound and vision mag did a test with my speakers and they found the -3db point at 120hz http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/1852/test-bench-definitive-technology-procinema-800-home-theater-speaker-system.html so should i leave it at 80hz? it doesint seem good to put it below 100hz.

If the F3 really is 120 Hz, then those speakers are a raw deal. To be any use for HT the F3 needs to be no higher than 100 Hz. Your room is a little boomy because of the dimensions, so I would leave the crossover at either 80 or 100 Hz which ever sounds best.

Enjoy.

 

[ineedagirl69]

what about bass traps, and acoustic panels? i was thinking about getting some from here http://www.atsacoustics.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi there real cheap also.

 

[tnelson]

hi guys i have a question about my system..... i have a onlyo 705 with definitive technolygy procinema800 sytem. so anyway i ran my onkyo's audeyssey automatic setup, and they set my mains and my surround to 150hz. is that right? i thought they had to at 80hz. can anybody help me with this, thanks..........if you guys want to know the specs of my system go to definitivetechnology.com,and look up the procinima 800 system. i cant post links cause this is my first post.

Try setting them as someone else said between 80 and 100. I have Jamo 803C speakers that are complimented with the Def Tek Supercube II. @ 80-110 the frequency response I get is incredible. Play with it and see what works best for you because it is a matter of persona choice.

 

[TLS Guy]

what about bass traps, and acoustic panels? i was thinking about getting some from here http://www.atsacoustics.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi there real cheap also.

The bass traps might help, but I would advise putting the money towards better speakers.

 

[no. 5]

what about bass traps, and acoustic panels? i was thinking about getting some from here http://www.atsacoustics.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi there real cheap also.

That can improve room acoustics if well placed, if you want to use ATS Acoustics premade panels for low frequency control, they will need to be the four inch thick panels.

For what it's worth, I have purchased from ATS Acoustics before, and my experience with them was good.