150hz or 80hz?

[ineedagirl69]

I cant buy a spl meter right now but i will later on. so your saying i can use a test tone CD buy itself to find problems in my system, and tune it? how does that work? and what do you recomend on reducing boom in sub's? i have a very annoying boom in some of the movies that i wach. thanks for your help.( and everybody else's, i just want to hear different opinion's)

 

[no. 5]

I cant buy a spl meter right now but i will later on. so your saying i can use a test tone CD buy itself to find problems in my system, and tune it?

Yes, the MP3 download I referenced (for example) has pure sine waves in 1Hz increments, which will allow you to closely pinpoint what frequency(s) are problematic for any subwoofer location.

how does that work?

The offending frequency(s) will be of notably higher volume than the rest of the spectrum.

and what do you recomend on reducing boom in sub's?

A parametric equalizer, in concert with good placement.

Feel free to ask any more questions.

 

[ineedagirl69]

The offending frequency(s) will be of notably higher volume than the rest of the spectrum.

can you explain that part a little better? im sorry. i kinda know what you mean but i wanna make sure. i downloaded some test tones from hear http://www.realmofexcursion.com/ but i dont know what to look for when i play them . and what test tones can i use for my fronts and surrounds? i woud need somthing for higher FQ right? sorry for all the questions.

 

[no. 5]

can you explain that part a little better?

I can try.

Due to its dimensions, every room will have certain frequencies that resonate in it, those frequencies will be detectable because they will be louder than the other frequencies; if you played a 50Hz and a 70Hz tone in a room that had a resonance at 70Hz, the 70Hz tone would be louder because of the room. These resonances also tend to "ring" which further decreases sound quality.

What that means in practicality is things sound boomie, it sounds bad because the tonal balance is messed up, some frequencies are louder and last longer than they should, bass ends up sounding "slow" "boomie" "thick" until the problem is addressed.

i downloaded some test tones from hear http://www.realmofexcursion.com/ but i dont know what to look for when i play them .

What you are looking for is the frequency that is the loudest, all of those tones are recorded at the same level, so any change in volume in playback is because of the room.

Once you know what frequency is causing the problem, you can experiment with subwoofer placement to try to lessen or remove the problem. You may only need to move the subwoofer less than a foot to see a result.

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but it doesn't look like those tones will deliver the resolution needed to find resonances.

and what test tones can i use for my fronts and surrounds? i woud need somthing for higher FQ right? sorry for all the questions.

Don't worry about the questions, we all started somewhere!

I wouldn't be concerned about anything but the subwoofer. And in that regard, Audioholics had an artical on subwoofer placement that could be of some help.

 

[ineedagirl69]

so your saying that when i run the test tone the frequency that is the loudest(for example 80hz) thats were the problem is? and thats why subs are boomy? also i got that wesite from avs, so i guess ill use something else. what do you think about DVE? the new blu-ray version that just came out, are those test tones good?. and thanks for the link.

 

[no. 5]

so your saying that when i run the test tone the frequency that is the loudest(for example 80hz) thats were the problem is? and thats why subs are boomy?

That's pretty much it.

also i got that wesite from avs, so i guess ill use something else. what do you think about DVE? the new blu-ray version that just came out, are those test tones good?. and thanks for the link.

I don't know, I have not used DVE.

This link should have all the tones you need.

 

[ineedagirl69]

Thanks for the link i will download them now and see what happens.......oh and buy the way my boom is gone. here is what i think happend........when i first ran the onkyo audyssey i had my subs level trim on the 12 o clock position, so the audyssey based its caculations and equalized my sub with that setting. wich now i know was to high and thats why the onkyo had my sub spl level at a very low -15 db. so anyway i setup the audyssey again because obviously i didnt like the way my system was sounding, but this time i changed some things. first i changed the sub trim level from the 12 o clock position to about the 10 o clock position, then i covered up some reflection spots in my room so the onkyo could do a better EQ and caculation. for example i have a clothes draw with a tv on top that i covered up with a blanket, so anyway i ran the audeyssey again and it changed my sub level from -15 to -7. and it also changed my surrounds from -7 to -4, and now the boom is gone in my sub. my system sounds so much better now, my front and surround speakers sound fuller, cleaner, and clear. i tested some movie scenes where i heard the most boom and played them back and a high level. and i heard no boom at all, the bass was just as it was suppose to be. im not saying its perfect( it sounded like it to me) but it sounds 10x better than before, what do think about all this number 5? is it placebo effect taking place here? or did my adjustments to my room and sub make for a better soundind system?........thanks for all your help by the way.

 

[no. 5]

Well, anytime a change is known to have taken place the placebo effect can come into play, but just because your mind can fool you doesn't necessarily mean is fooling you. The only way to verify and pinpoint any changes would be to compare before and after high-resolution frequency response measurements.

But if the boom is gone, it looks like you got the results you were looking for.

 

[ineedagirl69]

It really does sound better than before, something had to change if the boom is gone. and before i coudint really hear my surrounds, i could hear them but they really didn't have that surround feeling. and i could also tell where the sound was coming from in the room, now i can hear them much better but i cant tell where the sound is located. i dont know......maby it is placebo, maby its not, but like you said....... i got the boom to go away

 

[ineedagirl69]

ummm no.5?.....you might think im crazy but for some reson the boom is back i have no idea how. after i ran the setup and tested some movies i didn't hear any boom, but now today when i was waching a movie i had that same long drawn out boom. sorry to keep bothering you i thought i just let you know, and i really cant get a spl at this moement, why things have to be so difficult.

 

[Alex2507]

Check your channel adjustments again. I've had mine go to a default setting for no apparent reason. Once you do get them set, write down the settings so that you can just go back to them should they get whacked again.

 

[ineedagirl69]

The onkyo saves all of its settings once its done with the setup.

 

[Alex2507]

I'm not familiar with Onkyos but I take it that you looked and the settings are not all at zero. Then I don't know. Sorry.

 

[no. 5]

ummm no.5?.....you might think im crazy but for some reson the boom is back i have no idea how. after i ran the setup and tested some movies i didn't hear any boom, but now today when i was waching a movie i had that same long drawn out boom. sorry to keep bothering you i thought i just let you know, and i really cant get a spl at this moement, why things have to be so difficult.

No problem mate, bother away!

According to Audysseys website, the 705 has MultEQ XT which should be applying filters to the subwoofer to deal with room resonances and thus tame the boom.
But if the boom is suddenly back, it may be as Alex said, and the settings were changed somehow (which has happened to me once before, but it is a completely different receiver). But if the settings have not changed, it was likely the placebo effect to begin with, and you will need to find a different place for the sub.

You may have said this already, but where is your sub placed now? And what are the dimensions of the room (hight/width/depth)?

 

[ineedagirl69]

Iv heard at avs forums in the onkyo 705 thread that if you change the settings the onkyo sets for you it wont do any EQ. for example if it set my speakers at 80hz and i change them below that number the audyssey wont EQ anything, but nobody is 100% sure about that. so to make sure i went to the audyssey thread at avsforum.com to ask the audyssey guy if any of this is true, i just posted my question so hopefully ill hear from him tommorow......... as for my room dementions? its a average size room, so i would guess and say 10x13. its a pretty small room. and my sub is placed up front with my speakers, it right next to my entertainment cabinet that my tv is in. i put it right up againts it, and my room door in right there also, and the sub is a couple inches from the wall.

 

[TLS Guy]

Iv heard at avs forums in the onkyo 705 thread that if you change the settings the onkyo sets for you it wont do any EQ. for example if it set my speakers at 80hz and i change them below that number the audyssey wont EQ anything, but nobody is 100% sure about that. so to make sure i went to the audyssey thread at avsforum.com to ask the audyssey guy if any of this is true, i just posted my question so hopefully ill hear from him tommorow......... as for my room dementions? its a average size room, so i would guess and say 10x13. its a pretty small room. and my sub is placed up front with my speakers, it right next to my entertainment cabinet that my tv is in. i put it right up againts it, and my room door in right there also, and the sub is a couple inches from the wall.

Have you tried setting everything manually? Your room is close to square, so it will tend to the boomy.

Your speakers are fairly small with an F3 of 57. I would set your crossover to 60Hz and set your sub level by ear. Do not use auto EQ, set everything flat for a start and please report back on that first. I think the sound you get out of that will be revealing, and quite likely will be the best.

 

[fmw]

Right or wrong isn't a setting, it is a frequency response curve. And that depends both on the speakers in question and the room in which they operate. Since you seem concerned and interested in the subject why not go blow a few bucks at radio shack for a sound pressure level meter. I'm sure you can download test tones somewhere on the internet and you can use them to set the best crossover point to produce the smoothest frequency response curve. Trust me, you can do it better than the auto EQ system in your receiver.

 

[ineedagirl69]

here is the reply i got from the audyssey guy at avsforums. i ask him if i change the xover the audyssey sets for my speakers will it do any EQ.

MultEQ will calculate filters down to the -3 dB point that it finds for each loudspeaker (where it starts to roll off). It won't calculate lower than that because that would mean it would start boosting the speaker beyond its capability at low frequencies. So, yes, in your case MultEQ is finding the -3 dB point at 150 Hz and so it will not correct below that. Keep in mind that it gradually reduces the correction to match the slope of your speaker.

From your description above, it sounds like your main speakers have a big bump near 150 Hz. So, it's better to play those frequencies from the sub. The MultEQ filter there has 8x the resolution and so it will handle that bump even better. Or, it could be that the placement of the sub is such that it doesn't suffer from the big bump at 150 Hz. In any case, I think you proved that it sounds better using the default settings. Why is 150 Hz "obviously too high"? The definition of a proper crossover frequency is the one that best blends the sat and sub.

Chris

what do guys think about this? test have show that my speakers can go down to 100hz. so the onkyo is wrong in some way. but yea, it looks like thers no EQ when i change the xover. you think thats what causing the boom?

 

[TLS Guy]

here is the reply i got from the audyssey guy at avsforums. i ask him if i change the xover the audyssey sets for my speakers will it do any EQ. what do guys think about this?

Thats a load of bilge, and foul fishy bilge, if ever I heard it. It would be most unlikely your speakers have a peak at 150 Hz.

Please do what I suggested, as a starting point and report back. You are most likely to get the best results if you work with the F3 point of your speakers, which is 57 Hz, and close enough to 60 as makes no difference.

I have been working with speakers and audio systems for over 50 years and I've leaned a thing or two along the way. If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't, right? Well that is auto EQ. That auto EQ has made a dog's dinner of your system and your listening pleasure.

That reply is just trying to justify the advertising and 'hype."

 

[ineedagirl69]

here is another reply i got

No, no. Not over time. What I mean is that the correction doesn't "stop" at exactly 150 Hz. It slowly reduces down to no correction as you go lower than 150 Hz. So, you still have some correction running at 149 Hz, less at 140 Hz, and so on.

You can't set your crossover by public opinion. It has to be set for what the actual conditions are for your room, your speakers, and their placement. Sure, it's better to have a lower crossover frequency because that reduces the chances of localizing the position of the sub. You want to hear bass, but not know where it's coming from. However, that is a very minor compromise to make if the alternative is to have boomy bass due to a bad blend between your speakers and sub.

Chris