Zumbo: A proposition for you

[jostenmeat]

The speakers I recently bought were the older gen of PSB Images. I believe the new version today beats out my speakers across the board, even if they share the same name, Images.

 

[zumbo]

Again, what was your point? That you are somehow halfassedly comparing speakers based on . . . wut?

Oh, so your post was somehow inferring the changing of hands to Fosgate? Oh I'm sooooo sorry I missed THAT point . . .

I just don't get the attitude.

We are all waiting for the measurements of the QLS. The other measurements were posted to give merit to the company.

The point is, the prior model to the Vera can be had for 1k(QLS). They were both the top-of-the-line models within the company. Seeing as how that is a fact, one should assume the measurements of my model(QLS) should be very close. Again, they were both the top models, just different years.

The Vera can't be had, as far as I know. There were not that many made. That was at the end of Fosgate ownership.

The current model, GM MS F-ONE is 4k a pair in plain finish. More finishes are available at an extra charge.

If you had read the thread, I would not be having to post all of this information again.

No reason to come-in and get this thread locked. OTOH, your participation in the thread is appreciated.

 

[zumbo]

It is my opinion that Vera was just dressed-up to drive-up the price to have the American investors put money in their pockets, or to bring the look of the product up to the performance.(and put money in the Americans pocket)

You have to understand that this company was mis-managed by American investors who sent the jobs to China after the dressed-up models were not a hit.

They just did a bad job of advertising, and running the company.

As all of you know, we are not the common audio consumer. The common consumer buys hype. This company(German Maestro) does not sell hype, and refuses to.

 

[zumbo]

On another note, I have nothing against Ascend or PSB.

Thread is not about one being better than the other.

Thread was calling-me-out(in good faith) to have me provide documentation for the product in which I am so passionate about.

I am providing documents as I find them, or as I get them. What I find, is what you get. I have no control over who measured what.

It's really been a peaceful, and informative thread. I wish to keep it that way.

 

[KEW]

You have to understand that this company was mis-managed by American investors who sent the jobs to China after the dressed-up models were not a hit.

They just did a bad job of advertising, and running the company.

Do you know?
Was their car audio gear better managed by Fosgate?

Right or wrong, I think of Fosgate as car audio only, and MB Quart seems to have a strong car audio presence; so I'm wondering if Fosgate bought MB Quart for Car Audio, and gave little thought to the Home Audio side.

 

[zumbo]

Do you know?
Was their car audio gear better managed by Fosgate?

Right or wrong, I think of Fosgate as car audio only, and MB Quart seems to have a strong car audio presence; so I'm wondering if Fosgate bought MB Quart for Car Audio, and gave little thought to the Home Audio side.

Probably not better manged by.

And yes, gave little thought and budget for advertising to home audio side.

I was huge into car audio 10+ years ago, which is where I became familiar with MB Quart.

I do know after Fosgate took over, RF came-out with less expensive component sets made by MB Quart. This put the brand name in the beginning of the down-turn.

If you were a car audio shopper, and you could pay less money for the same product with the a different badge, which would you choose?

By the time Maxxsonics took-over, and tried to do similar things, it was the icing on the cake. Not to mention, sending the less popular home products assembly to China.

The car audio speakers, and all drivers followed. This is why one must be careful when buying a MB Quart branded product.

All that aside, the German guys stood their ground, got German investors together, and launched German Maestro.

But, the fact remains. QLS were Handmade In Germany by the German company. They just sound fantastic. Well worth 1k, or more.

 

[zumbo]

Probably not better managed by Fosgate. I had to edit my above reply.

 

[zumbo]

When MB Quart hit in car audio, they turned car audio on it's head.

No one had ever heard speakers like this.

It took a bit, but if you were to walk into a car audio dealer in the late 80's early 90's, and they had Quart, you purchased Quart. It was just that simple.

MB Quart racked-up car audio awards left and right.

Rockford Fosgate was the king, and had the pocket-book to prove it. They saw the threat, and it was HUGE.

They came to Quart with a offer. Whoever was in charge took the candy. The workers and engineers took the hit.

The workers had to do as they were told. Many left, some stayed.

Fosgate put their name on some of the Quart mids and tweets, and in return put Quarts name on some of Fosgates subs.

Seemed like a good idea, or was it?

Now, it seems as though Fosgate was taking a hit in the market, and aided in the demise of a fine company.

Maxxonics purchased the brand, but by then I think the damage had been done. They did the same things Fosgate did. Exploited the brand.

The brand MB Quart is done, and it won't take but a minute on their site to see it.

The Germans have such a passion for perfection, and such a passion for their product, they are giving it another shot.

I think it's a great story, and there is no doubt it's great product.

Those who know, and have the ability to snag the old original German made product for a fraction of the retail price are the lucky ones.

But, I certainly hope the company makes it. They are coming back in car audio strong. There is Focal and Rainbow now, but you could say German Maestro is part of the big three.

 

[KEW]

The Germans have such a passion for perfection

Yeah, that caused some issues back in he '40s!

...j/k!
As an engineer, I appreciate what you are saying. The "old stock" MB Quarts do seem like a killer deal - as long as inventory holds.

Pricewise, a similar situation to the Energy RC series, only these appear to be a more upscale speaker.

 

[zumbo]

As an engineer, I appreciate what you are saying. The "old stock" MB Quarts do seem like a killer deal - as long as inventory holds.

I don't know how much is left. There will be only certain colors available, and then all of a sudden, there is more stock.

I purchased my first two HT sets in '03 before I knew anything about Fosgate selling Quart to Maxxsonics. I did know Fosgate owned Quart, just as they Owned NHT at the time('03). Don't know if they own NHT today.

Fosgate must have sold Quart right before I got my first two sets, or right at.

The next thing I know, I was determined to learn as much as I could due to the power of the net.

So, from '03 til now I have studied what has gone on. With some help from other members here, and research on my own, I have this stupid connection with the company like a teen watching a reality show.

Then, all of a sudden, I find the pair of 830's NIB on ebay for a starting price of $9.99. I waited, watched, and with 9 seconds left, I won them for $469 with a bid of $800.

Hooked them up to my new(used) Denon POA 2200, and the love affair started all over again.

So I posted a few recommendations, threw out some negative comments about $300 Infinity, and find myself here.

I think it has been a great thread, and has sent me even further into finding-out more about the connection between brands.

Still waiting on my reply from German Maestro. Hope I get one. They may not have the graphs. Who knows, after all that has happened.

 

[zumbo]

Got my response. My question to them was to compare the QLS 830 to the current model.

The current model uses a whole new titanium inverted dome tweeter.

The Vera, which caused a little ruckus here, uses the same tweeter as the QLS. 1" titanium dome.

So, we can compare the QLS and the new model here, and compare that to the Vera.

Hope the link can be read.


Link didn't work. Give me a minute.

 

[zumbo]

Well, let me try something else.

Okay. So the color is hard to see. But, if you look at the line that heads up on the far right, that is the red line.(new model)

From the left side, the new model is the line that starts closer to 60 and 70 in each comparison.(red)

The QLS 830 is the lower line in each comparison.(blue) About 57 & 67.

Vera floor-stander is the purple line:

 

[zumbo]

If any of you are interest in a better color picture, just send me a PM. I actually had to print the pdf, scan it, save it, and attach it.

After all of that, the colors are not so good.

 

[zumbo]

Vera on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MB-QUART-VERA-SURROUND-SOUND-AUDIOPHILE-/130478310595?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item1e611d04c3

QLS at Yawa:
http://www.yawaonline.com/mbquql63tosp.html

 

[zumbo]

I am no graph reader, but I assume the new model has more low-end, and has a better off-axis response in the upper end. I consider this a result of 7" drivers vs 6.5", and the new inverted tweeter. And, of coarse, cabinet and x-over design.

OTOH, if the graph indicates sound, they should sound similar.

Certainly, it doesn't indicate the new model sounds 3k(pr) better. Correct?

 

[zumbo]

I keep looking at the graph thinking, dang, I got a pair of speakers for $469 NIB that closely match the performance of a 4k pair.

This should explain my passion for QLS, and remarks in the past.

 

[GranteedEV]

I can't tell which speaker is which, but there's some odd peakyness in the 1st party measurements' treble region (6khz-10khz) that were not on the 3rd party measurements. Those are the regions where boost can cause speakers to sound somewhat on the bright side depending on the nature of the source material. They probably do sound "exciting" though. I would probably personally add an inductor in series somewhere to smooth out the top end of the tweeter.

Either way, as I said before, on axis measurements have their value but even trying to imagine they could tell us the whole story is insane. You need a collection of measurements. On the bright side (no pun intended) on axis response peaks are arguably the easiest thing to fix in a loudspeaker. If it does everything else well (off axis response, distortion, transient response etc) then a simple digital parametric EQ might help you shape the on axis response to flat. The worst way to approach the issue is the Club Polk way... to try to find an amp that will roll the highs off. lol it's just silly.

 

[zumbo]

I can't tell which speaker is which, but there's some odd peakyness in the 1st party measurements' treble region (6khz-10khz) that were not on the 3rd party measurements. Those are the regions where boost can cause speakers to sound somewhat on the bright side depending on the nature of the source material. They probably do sound "exciting" though. I would probably personally add an inductor in series somewhere to smooth out the top end of the tweeter.

Either way, as I said before, on axis measurements have their value but even trying to imagine they could tell us the whole story is insane. You need a collection of measurements. On the bright side (no pun intended) on axis response peaks are arguably the easiest thing to fix in a loudspeaker. If it does everything else well (off axis response, distortion, transient response etc) then a simple digital parametric EQ might help you shape the on axis response to flat. The worst way to approach the issue is the Club Polk way... to try to find an amp that will roll the highs off. lol it's just silly.

This is where the tweeter comes into play. I consider them brightly detailed.

This is the sound I prefer, much like B&W 803-4-5.(on the mid to high-end)

I have always stated the QLS 830 fall between the B&W 804, and B&W 704.

Comparable measurements may support my claim.

 

[zumbo]

Let's see if this works.
http://sz0081.wc.mail.comcast.net/service/home/~/Scan_Messkurve.pdf?auth=co&loc=en_US&id=113680&part=2

 

[GranteedEV]

Yeah, people have their preferences, a lot of which depends on their favorite music too.

Bright isn't necessarily harsh or sibilant, although it can be depending on the "form of bright". It's usually a forward treble though. In more dead rooms it can even sound more fundamentally right than in a good, but average room. As long as the peak isn't metal dome tweeter breakup... if it's tweeter breakup then it might sound really bad. I really couldn't tell you based on the low resolution of the grapgs

I like treble detail but I think a flatter speaker can do it very well - but more than anything it takes a mental adjustment period. My cheapo-e55tis are really flat in the treble before the ~13khz rolloff:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/emptek-e55ti/EMPFreq.JPG/image_view_fullscreen

And the Salk HT2-TLs are super-flat in the treble, at least horizontally:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/floorstanding/salk-sound-veracity-ht2-tl/HT2TL_meas_half.jpg/image_preview