Zumbo: A proposition for you

[zumbo]

This is older MB Quart Vera stuff. The purple line is the floor-stander, the green line is the center, and the red line is the books. These are 6" drivers.

From the review:
This graph shows the quasi-anechoic (employing close-miking of all woofers) frequency response of the Vera VS 1F L/R (purple trace), Vera VS 1C center (green trace), and Vera VS 1B surround (red trace). All passive loudspeakers were measured at a distance of 1 meter with a 2.83-volt input and scaled for display purposes.

The VS 1F's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.24/–2.20 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 38 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 34 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 8.30 ohms at 216 Hz and a phase angle of –44.66 degrees at 82 Hz.

The VS 1C's listening-window response measures +0.88/–3.71 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. An average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal responses measures +0.89/–4.55 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 55 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 46 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 5.86 ohms at 205 Hz and a phase angle of –50.97 degrees at 96 Hz.

The VS 1B's listening-window response measures +0.72/–2.96 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 50 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 43 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 4.43 ohms at 1.5 kHz and a phase angle of –53.26 degrees at 96 Hz.—MJP

 

[zumbo]

I would also like to add that you can't just go buy something that is MB Quart. The brand changed hands several times, and I have 20 years experience with the brand. I know which models to get, car and home, and which models to stay away from.

Unless Vera can be found, QLS are the only models I recommend for HT. I have never heard Vera, and QLS just may be better.

As for car audio, the brand list is more extensive. There are tons of do not buy models. I have a large stock of new discontinued car gear. I watch auction sites like a hawk. Due to my freakish research of the company, I just can't help myself from buying certain models when I see a deal.

When my wife's cd player quit in her G35 coupe, I yanked the whole system and did a custom stealth install with Quart/JL/Alpine. System was stunning.

 

[Alex2507]

... anyone looking at this thread needs to be sure to compare apples to apples here. As mentioned, the German Maestro are just 2.5 way slim 7" towers. The QLS are 6.5".

Dollars are the new apples and that's the bottom line. The GM look better and looks are the new oranges. I bet those GM oranges are worth way more apples.

So what's the deal here? The QLS are like 10 years old but are still available for a grand? A grand isn't that much in terms of speakers and a grand gets burned up quick in cabinet construction. What have you got? ... like three pairs? I'm sorry but I'd have been elbows deep into at least one pair by now.

The only speakers I have that I wouldn't dream of digging into is a pair of Aperion Intimus 5DB Surround Speakers. They sell for $690/pair and I recently saw a pair go for $491 + $40 shipping on eBay. I guess it's not their relative worth that keeps me out of them but their level of craftsmanship ... they are beautiful. They are built like little tanks too ... 17 lbs each ... and they don't need me poking around. So what do the GM's go for?

When it comes to price on speakers one thing I think get's over looked pretty frequently is how much power they can take and still remain distortion free ... audible distortion that is in speaker terms (like 5% I believe). I'm not prepared to talk real numbers here but just want to mention that it takes a lot of money for a speaker to be able to go up another 3db and still sound clean ... and then another 3db? That's where 5,8,and 10 thousand dollar speakers fit in. $150 pair of Behringer Truth 2030P's sound good above 80Hz and below 80db's ... real good as a matter of fact.

So where do you live and when can I come over?

 

[zumbo]

Dollars are the new apples and that's the bottom line. The GM look better and looks are the new oranges. I bet those GM oranges are worth way more apples.

I believe they take three bushels of oranges.

EDIT. Make that four bushels.

So what's the deal here? The QLS are like 10 years old but are still available for a grand? A grand isn't that much in terms of speakers and a grand gets burned up quick in cabinet construction. What have you got? ... like three pairs? I'm sorry but I'd have been elbows deep into at least one pair by now.

The two dealers selling these things must have purchased them on liquidation when Fosgate sold the company to Maxxsonics. The boxes have a sticker that shows the product was shipped from Fosgate Audionics to the dealer.

When it comes to price on speakers one thing I think get's over looked pretty frequently is how much power they can take and still remain distortion free ... audible distortion that is in speaker terms (like 5% I believe). I'm not prepared to talk real numbers here but just want to mention that it takes a lot of money for a speaker to be able to go up another 3db and still sound clean ... and then another 3db? That's where 5,8,and 10 thousand dollar speakers fit in. $150 pair of Behringer Truth 2030P's sound good above 80Hz and below 80db's ... real good as a matter of fact.

In my HT, the 830's distort when the clip indicators on my Adcom 7605 light up.

In my 2.0 rig playing them full-range, the mid-woofers will slap before the speakers distort. Understand, this is with a 300WPC@4ohm amp. I have to be careful.

So where do you live and when can I come over?

Sending PM.

 

[zumbo]

Doing a Euro to Dollar conversion, it looks as though the GM MS F-One is $1936.62 each. EURO 1400.

So, $3873.24 a pair, plus tax.

Or, QLS 830 for 1k a pair. No tax.

This should help explain my passionate remarks of the product. The QLS are just unbelievable products for the price.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is older MB Quart Vera stuff.

The VS 1F's listening-window response (a five-point average of axial and +/–15-degree horizontal and vertical responses) measures +0.24/–2.20 dB from 200 Hz to 10 kHz. The –3dB point is at 38 Hz, and the –6dB point is at 34 Hz. Impedance reaches a minimum of 8.30 ohms at 216 Hz and a phase angle of –44.66 degrees at 82 Hz.---MJP

That is excellent.

I guess the reason many of us don't recommend MB Quart is because many of us just don't know all that much about it - just like we don't know much about other speakers made in Europe.

Most of us are only familiar with speakers made in USA, Canada, England, and CHINA.

 

[zumbo]

As with most of us, we are limited to what is on hand at dealers in our area. In this economy(I hate that saying), it is just hard for a high-end dealer to even keep it's doors open. My B&W dealer has gone from having 802 on 1k monoblocks, and 805 on 275 tubes, to not even having 800 series in stock.

Paradigm dealer is by appointment, and no stock.

 

[Alex2507]

Paradigm dealer is by appointment, and no stock.

I'm sure he has some speakers for you to audition but it reads like he has no speakers and you make an appointment to stand in a space that has had Paradigms played it in at some distant point in the past ... the room still resonates with their chocolaty smooth mids. It washes over you ...

 

[zumbo]

I'm sure he has some speakers for you to audition but it reads like he has no speakers and you make an appointment to stand in a space that has had Paradigms played it in at some distant point in the past ... the room still resonates with their chocolaty smooth mids. It washes over you ...

They had several in stock in '03(Monitor and Studio line). Nice, but no 800 series for sure. Everyone likes something different.

EDIT No stock in store. He has to take people to his home to audition his personal system. He is set-up good enough for people to make an informed decision.

 

[zumbo]

I must add for members reading not posting.

The QLS are 4ohm/87db. They either require a flagship avr, or separate amplification. Even though the price is low, these are far from low-end speakers. I do not recommend them for low/mid-fi avr's.

 

[Rickster71]

As with most of us, we are limited to what is on hand at dealers in our area. In this economy(I hate that saying), it is just hard for a high-end dealer to even keep it's doors open. My B&W dealer has gone from having 802 on 1k monoblocks, and 805 on 275 tubes, to not even having 800 series in stock.

Paradigm dealer is by appointment, and no stock.

That's true here too.
The dealer I've dealt with, used to have the whole Signature line to demo.
Now very little in stock; I saw an S1 and a few other small bookshelves.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So speaker audition is now a thing of the past in many areas, unless all you want are $1,000 speakers or less.

Or unless your friends/family own those speakers.

 

[zumbo]

Just for fun, and if anyone is interested, this is a pretty good read. A lot of information about the company.

http://www.hometheater.com/floorloudspeakers/904mbquart/index.html

There were the QLS(Rockford owned company), Vera(Rockford owned company), then Alexxa(Maxxsonics owned company). As far as I know, Alexxa were made in china, but designed in Germany(end of the German guys being involved with the MB Quart brand name). They are identical to the new German Maestro models, minus build quality I am sure.

EDIT. It looks as though the Alexxa has 5.25" mids, while the GM have 7".

Why am I bringing-up Alexxa? Amazon has them on close-out. I just found this out while putting this post together. As with many close-outs at Amazon, you have to click on the price to see current price. Some are shocking.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=mb+quart+alexxa&x=0&y=0

As mentioned, the Alexxa floor-standers should measure exactly as these:
http://www.german-maestro.de/downloads/test_reports/stereoplay_9_09_linea_s_en.pdf

Alexxa is the model-line the Audioholics Store carried when they launched their site.

Audioholics review thread of the bookshelf from 5-1-08:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43749

Found the original name in the review. MB Peerless:
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/bookshelf/mb-quart-alexxa-b-one

 

[zumbo]

From the Audioholics review:

Not only does MB Quart manufacture their own line of speakers, but they have also supplied components to several high-end brands such as Thiel Audio, Halo, Aerial Acoustics, Totem Acoustics and Avalon Acoustics. So while you may not have yet heard of MB Quart's home loudspeakers, it is likely that you are familiar with some of their work over the years.

Very interesting. I also believe they had a relationship with Wilson, and Meridian. Have read somewhere that they made the tweeters in one of the companies $10,000+ speakers.

 

[zumbo]

Found actual Alexxa measurements. Some of it is in German, but the graph is there. This review states the S-1 has 5.25" mids. If that is the case, they are not identical to the new GM with 7".
http://www.mbquart.com/pdfs/press/HifiTest_6_06_Alexxa_S1_en.pdf

 

[zumbo]

I have always read that Danish speakers were the best. Forgive me, but I didn't know German was Danish.

Anyway, just wanted to post that Dynaudio is less than two hours away from German Maestro(original MB Quart location).

Obrigheim, Germany to Rosengarten, Germany.

Jamo (Glyngøre, Denmark) is about 10 hours from GM/Quart (Obrigheim)

Dali(Nørager, Denmark) is also about 10 hours from Obrigheim.

Bang & Olufsen(Struer, Denmark) is also about 10 hours from Obrigheim.

Canton(Stuttgart, Germany) is less than two hours away from Obrigheim.

Less than 10 hours from Elac HQ as well.

Less than 10 hours from B&W

Starting to see a trend here.

 

[zumbo]

Peerless is now Peerless (Tymphany), which has gone the way of China.

The Vifa tweeter that I believe was used in Rockets is also related.(called a Peerless Gold ring radiator now)

http://www.tymphany.com/frontpage

Looks as though Scan-Speak is related as well.

 

[zumbo]

14 hours from SEAS.

I love talking to myself.

 

[KEW]

I have always read that Danish speakers were the best. Forgive me, but I didn't know German was Danish.

Anyway, just wanted to post that Dynaudio is less than two hours away from German Maestro(original MB Quart location).

Obrigheim, Germany to Rosengarten, Germany.

Jamo (Glyngøre, Denmark) is about 10 hours from GM/Quart (Obrigheim)

Dali(Nørager, Denmark) is also about 10 hours from Obrigheim.

Bang & Olufsen(Struer, Denmark) is also about 10 hours from Obrigheim.

Canton(Stuttgart, Germany) is less than two hours away from Obrigheim.

Less than 10 hours from Elac HQ as well.

Less than 10 hours from B&W

Starting to see a trend here.

I think the real trend here is that Europe is a comparatively small place. All of West Germany is about the size of Oregon. So if German Maestro is fairly centrally located, 10 hours will get you about anywhere in Western Europe (apologies to Eastern Europe, but I don't believe they are yet producing many high-end speakers).

 

[zumbo]

I think the real trend here is that Europe is a comparatively small place. All of West Germany is about the size of Oregon. So if German Maestro is fairly centrally located, 10 hours will get you about anywhere in Western Europe (apologies to Eastern Europe, but I don't believe they are yet producing many high-end speakers).

So the best speakers in the world are all made within 10/20 hours of each other. I was aware of Dynaudio and Quart/Maestro being within two hours of each other, but I had no idea all of these companies were within ten hours of Quart/Maestro.

I would imagine that most other members didn't either. I always thought Danish meant Denmark. Never realized it could include such a large region, but on such a small mileage scale.

It's just very interesting to me.

MB Quart/German Maestro, Dynaudio, and B&W(800 series) are all the best I auditioned in '03. Judging by most of the reviews of the other brands, I am sure they are what I would prefer.

Just think, a 10/20 hour radius. Wonder how many employees have moved from one company to another? Wonder how many techniques were openly shared? Wonder how many were secretly shared?