Yamahaholics

[Unregistered]

ding, ding, ding. The chalenger has lost!!! Mtrycrafts whoever he might be wins this one by standing on the shoulders of others! not by his own extensive experience on measuring actual amp and speaker interaction and/or his extensive amplifier and speaker design background. I'm sorry, I apologize, we are all sure that he has designed many amplifiers and speakers and fully understands emf and other aspects of engineering such systems.

 

[Audioholics]

Any problems with me moving this poll to the Steam Vent? It's kinda off the beaten path at this point...

 

[mtrycrafts]

Any problems with me moving this poll to the Steam Vent? It's kinda off the beaten path at this point...

That's as good a place as any

 

[mtrycrafts]

ding, dong, ding dong

ding, ding, ding. The chalenger has lost!!! Mtrycrafts whoever he might be wins this one by standing on the shoulders of others! not by his own extensive experience on measuring actual amp and speaker interaction and/or his extensive amplifier and speaker design background. I'm sorry, I apologize, we are all sure that he has designed many amplifiers and speakers and fully understands emf and other aspects of engineering such systems.

It sounds like the only one who can challenge, pose questions, post citations are the ones who have original research under their belts, extensive experience in the subjects?
ding, ding, anyone there?
You nor he has offered anything to further the discussion of the issues at hand. Why is that? Sure would have been better to support assertions or claims. ding, ding

 

[WmAx]

ding, ding, ding. The chalenger has lost!!! Mtrycrafts whoever he might be wins this one by standing on the shoulders of others! not by his own extensive experience on measuring actual amp and speaker interaction and/or his extensive amplifier and speaker design background. I'm sorry, I apologize, we are all sure that he has designed many amplifiers and speakers and fully understands emf and other aspects of engineering such systems.

Hmm. Should I assume that experience automaticly qualifies someone as *correct*? LOL.

Experience(s) are only as valuable as the person's ability to process/weigh those experience(s). Experience alone, regardless of quantity, does not have a fixed value.(Example: It can be worthless or valuable depending on what the individual makes of such.)

From what I have noticed, mtrycrafts defers/refers to those that have objectively considered the situation(s) instead of those that prefer to base everything upon unfounded speculation(s), or even worse(IMO); attempting to back their worthless experience(s) or claim(s) with their reputation(s) or degree(s).

-Chris

 

[Unregistered]

Never assume, that is the whole point you d**wits!!!

 

[WmAx]

Never assume, that is the whole point you d**wits!!!

Is this symbolic of the *quality* of posts we can expect from you 'Unregistered'?

-Chris

 

[mtrycrafts]

Never assume, that is the whole point you d**wits!!!

I didn't think you could be short of vocabulary? There are hundreds of thousands of words in the dictionary and you pick these? Isn't it telling of you?

 

[Unregistered]

The only thing that is telling is the fact that he/she chose to use ** instead of 'im' to complete the word. You shouldn't really criticise though, mtrycrafts, your grammar and spelling isn't so great either.

 

[WmAx]

I honestly don't know why damping factor is used by anyone. Marketing appeal? As a lone specification it is useless. Damping factor is the result of an equation cosidering total series resistance, output impedance and knowing the specific load impedance that was used for the measurement. Change any of these and the damping factor changes. You need all of the additional data concerning the test conditions. Output impedance is a far more useful and self-contained parameter that can easily be applied to a basic electrical interaction model.

-Chris

Perhaps if you read more tube test reports in Stereopile, you will see DF much lower than 10 which is based on .8 ohm output impedance, about average for tube amps, or even low.

Did you even read the paper? Then you would know that DF is nothing but a ration. Nominal speaker impedance and amp output impedance. What is there to build a circuit around then?

I am glad you supplied some real evidence and citations to support your contentions and claims, were able to refute the paper, its formulas and calculations so eloquently. You even included some listeing test. Impressive.
I have to consider them carefully and perhaps reconsider my position.

 

[gene]

I honestly don't know why damping factor is used by anyone. Marketing appeal? As a lone specification it is useless. Damping factor is the result of an equation cosidering total series resistance, output impedance and knowing the specific load impedance that was used for the measurement. Change any of these and the damping factor changes. You need all of the additional data concerning the test conditions. Output impedance is a far more useful and self-contained parameter that can easily be applied to a basic electrical interaction model.

WmAX;

I agree with you 100%.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I honestly don't know why damping factor is used by anyone. Marketing appeal? As a lone specification it is useless. Damping factor is the result of an equation cosidering total series resistance, output impedance and knowing the specific load impedance that was used for the measurement. Change any of these and the damping factor changes. You need all of the additional data concerning the test conditions. Output impedance is a far more useful and self-contained parameter that can easily be applied to a basic electrical interaction model.

-Chris

If nothing else, it tells us the output impedance of the amp. I would be worried when it is below 10 or approaching 1?

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:DPierce@world.std.com+and+damping+factor&hl=en&lr=&selm=2rvv75$tji@introl.introl.com&rnum=1

 

[Steve1000]

Great article, thanks!

I'm a great fan of your posts here and (in the past) elsewhere, BTW.

So you would be worried about an "overhang" of 3/100th of a second somewhere in the low to very low bass region with an absolute worst-case scenario of a damping factor of 1, which never ever occurs in any modern equipment and which would be overshadowed by all sorts of other factors such as manufacturing variances, crossover circuits, impedence interactions, etc., even with an absolutely unrealistic rip-off nightmare amplifier with an 8-ohm output impedence? Better to simply worry about the output impedence of the amp, no? If it's 8 ohms it's a no-go out of the gate by modern standards anyway, is it not? It seems to me that if the amplifier output is near 0 ohms, as it nearly always is, or even .8 ohms or so, there's simply no worry, damping factor is simply not a concern as far as audible performance is concerned. I'm just learning this stuff so please correct me if I'm wrong.

If nothing else, it tells us the output impedance of the amp. I would be worried when it is below 10 or approaching 1?

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:DPierce@world.std.com+and+damping+factor&hl=en&lr=&selm=2rvv75$tji@introl.introl.com&rnum=1

 

[gene]

We are way ahead of you mtrycrafts

Article on Damping Factor

 

[WmAx]

That's the thing, damping factor is a useless parameter by itslef. Let's say amplifier A is specified to have a damping factor of 40.

What does this mean? DF is dynamic. In order to have a precise meaning one requires test frequency, load impedance and output impedance.

Load Impedance / Output Impedance = Damping Factor

Examples(using the same theoretical amplifier terminating to a static loud impedance and assuming a circuit connection with 0 resistance):

8[ohms load] / 0.2[ohms output impedance] = 40[damping factor]

4[ohms load] / 0.2[ohms output impedance] = 20[damping factor]

But wait, the story is not over. The above are theoretical and assume zero series resistance. In a speaker, the inductors have resistance that must be accounted for as well do the speaker wires.

Let's say their is a 0.3mH 18 AWG inductor in series with the woofer. That will have DCR in the neighborhood of 0.25 ohms. Now lets say you are using 10'(5' x 2 for elapsed distance of one channel) of 16 AWG copper wire per channel. That's about 0.04 ohms. Now let's reassess the damping factor to the woofer:

8[ohms load] / (0.2+0.25+0.04=0.49)[ohms effective output impedance]) = 16.3 [damping factor]

4[ohms load] / (0.2+0.25+0.04=0.49)[ohms effective output impedance]) = 8.2 [damping factor]

If we just had the basic output impedance measurement instead of a useless damping factor value, it would be much more valuable to someone.

-Chris

If nothing else, it tells us the output impedance of the amp. I would be worried when it is below 10 or approaching 1?

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=author:DPierce@world.std.com+and+damping+factor&hl=en&lr=&selm=2rvv75$tji@introl.introl.com&rnum=1

 

[SonyGuy]

Yamaha????? They Suck All Around

Yamaha sucks, always have. They suck in receivers and sound. I have blown two Yamaha receivers and one subwoofer. All three pieces where only months old before they toasted. I've always been a Sony lover since I have owned just about every receiver possible. Sony has the puriest sound even at high volumes. I crank the heck out of my Sony and it takes every bit and hasn't blown yet, and it's a year old. I would put my Sony up against any of your Yamaha receivers and blow them to pieces. You people need to get out more often and look and listen to the real sound. Oh, by the way I'm a musician too, so I guess I know what live music is supposed to sound like and Sony is it. Sorry if you have a problem with the truth but, like they say the truth does hurt. Sony ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!

 

[jaxvon]

So, based on your experiences with two recievers and a subwoofer you say that Yamaha sucks? I find it hard to believe that they just failed on you. Most consumer electronics these days are idiot proofed pretty well, so you must've been trying to push the equipment beyond what it's supposed to do.

I also question the validity of your arguments on member intelligence, due to the multiple grammatical and spelling mistakes in your post. How can you call most of these people stupid? You must not realize that many of the big-time posters are experienced engineers and custom installers who I guarantee possess a great deal more knowledge than you.

Judging from your post, it also seems that Sony is your zenith of audio technology. While they make some very good headphones (such as the MDR-7506s), I have found their consumer level equipment (the gear that you're talking about) to be mediocre at best, and in many cases inferior compared to *gasp* Yamaha.


I feel that I speak for everyone on the forum when I say that we do not appreciate personal attacks or brash generalizations about the quality of equipment (unless you're talking about Bose). I feel that you have much to learn about etiquette and audio. However, with an open mind and a less condescending tone, I think that you'll fit in and come to appreciate the knowledge Audioholics has to offer.

To Gene, I know I'm not an administrator, and I hope I didn't overstep my bounds here. It's just that I felt I had to speak up. PM me if you have a problem with my post.

 

[zumbo]

I don't know how many of you are smart but, you all seem pretty stupid. Yamaha sucks, always have. They suck in receivers and sound. I have blown two Yamaha receivers and one subwoofer. All three pieces where only months old before they toasted. I've always been a Sony lover since I have owned just about every receiver possible. Sony has the puriest sound even at high volumes. I crank the heck out of my Sony and it takes every bit and hasn't blown yet, and it's a year old. I would put my Sony up against any of your Yamaha receivers and blow them to pieces. You people need to get out more often and look and listen to the real sound. Oh, by the way I'm a musician too, so I guess I know what live music is supposed to sound like and Sony is it. Sorry if you have a problem with the truth but, like they say the truth does hurt. Sony ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!

Stupid? Can you read? Did you miss all the technical information available in this thread before you called people stupid? These people are professionals. You are lost. Sony is not even in the game.

Hang out and do some reading before you decide to pop off about something you know nothing about. You will learn more here than you could at Sony headquarters.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Sorry if you have a problem with the truth but, like they say the truth does hurt. Sony ALL THE WAY!!!!!!!

I am glad you are enjoying your Sony.
I am sure it can be blown up as well as the next component as it has limits too, right?

The way you charged in here with your immature exclamations, I seriously doubt you will find this place to your liking. Perhaps you should look for a web site that supports your narrow mindedness.

 

[hopjohn]

Maybe this guy is Yamahaluver's arch villain.