Yamaha RX-Z9 vs NEW RX-A3080

S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Basically on 3080 you are paying for having newer HDMI and the newer surround formats like Atmos, DTSX, Dolby Surround Upmixer, and NeuralX upmixer. Sorry no SRS Circle Surround II The z7 does have that one. LOL :)
 
Z

Zega

Audioholic Intern
I compared their specs and found:

Power supply - seems very comparable, same power consumption specs, same block capacitance (18,000 ufX2, 71V)

DAC
RX-A3080: ES9007 (datasheet not found online but appears to be same as ES9006 used in the RX-A3060
RX-Z7: AK4384

The RX-A3080's DAC has far superior specs

ADC

RX-A3080: Assuming it is the same as that used in the RX-A3060, it appears to be part of the LSI chip that also does volume control

RX-Z7: Has a separate ADC chip, the PCM1804

Hard to say which is better, I would reasonably guess separate is better in this case because the PCM1804 has much better specs than the one used in Denon/Marantz.

Not trying to disappoint you, but the RX-Z7, while far from the RX-Z9 on paper, was still an excellent AVR. It has a mediocre DAC but the difference are likely not audible.

So aside from codec related factors, I see no reason for you to expect better or even just different sound quality between the two if compared in pure direct mode. Either one should sound just the same as your separate Yamaha integrate amps assuming you would compare them with the A-S700 or higher models.
The RX-V3080 has 2 DAC's: The ESS 384 kHz / 32-bit SABRE PRO Premier DAC™ ES9026PRO (for main 7 channels) and the SABRE ES9007S DAC.
The ES9026PRO is the exact same DAC as Yamaha uses in their separate, higher end CX-A5200 pre-amp.

Also the Pure Direct between the 3080 and the RX-Z9 is totally unique and completely different. Even when using the same exact speakers on both. Unique design using different parts equals different sounds. I own both of these units. I think that whether most anything is "better" or not, simply depends on individual tastes and matching the receiver to a suitable or complementary set of speakers.
 
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Z

Zega

Audioholic Intern
Wow, thank you so much for taking the time and interest to explore this comparison. I really appreciate your efforts and findings. Seems as though in pure direct mode they sound very close. That is good to know because I like the sound my z7 has provided to my b&w's. Thanks again, very informative.
They are completely unique and different in Pure Direct mode. As they are made with completely different chips and internal designs. At least my 3080 and RX-Z9 are way different in Pure Direct mode sound. For the most part I prefer the Z9 in P.D. mode. But for a lot of the newer movie or sound recordings, the 3080 far outshines the Z9 in P.D. mode. Though everything will depend on your personal tastes. And how well your speakers match up with the 3080 in comparison to your Z7. It took me quite awhile to fully adjust to the newer sound of the 3080. I switched it back and forth many times with my other receivers. I almost sold it several times. But would never part with it now. And I do not find the need to switch it back and forth anymore. So, if you happen to not like it at first, be willing to give it 3-6 months before considering another option.
I hope that you have lots of fun with it!
Peace.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Hmm. My own experience with my 2003 RXV3300 at least is that it has the Yamaha “natural” sound and I can only get that type of tone from my 2016 RXA2060 if I purposely choose “YPAO Natural” in the settings. If I choose “Pass Through”, it really doesn’t exhibit any particular tone to set it apart from a current Denon or Pioneer etc. Now these are a step or 2 below the flagships but thinking it could be a similar deal with older vs new.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The RX-V3080 has 2 DAC's: The ESS 384 kHz / 32-bit SABRE PRO Premier DAC™ ES9026PRO (for main 7 channels) and the SABRE ES9007S DAC.
The ES9026PRO is the exact same DAC as Yamaha uses in their separate, higher end CX-A5200 pre-amp.

Also the Pure Direct between the 3080 and the RX-Z9 is totally unique and completely different. Even when using the same exact speakers on both. Unique design using different parts equals different sounds. I own both of these units. I think that whether most anything is "better" or not, simply depends on individual tastes and matching the receiver to a suitable or complementary set of speakers.
Yes, my bad, I forget to mention the 3070/3080 have the same DAC for the main channels as the CX-A5000/5100/5200. The ES9026Pro's specs are more or less equivalent to the AK4490 in the Denon's but better than the AK4458 in the Marantz's. The 3080's zone 2/3 DAC beats the ones in the Denon/Marantz by miles. All mostly academic on paper, won't make any difference audibly speaking anyway (on all else being equal basis).

As for the other part, if you believe in different design = different sound quality that is audible, good for you. I lean on the objective side (so preference/taste becomes irrelevant..) and saw nothing to support that, when the design difference is relatively mild, between those two units. Either one has specs good enough for them to produce outputs that should sound identical to the human ears/brains if used within their limits and in this case their limits are practically the same.

Again on the objective side only, if measured with the AP like Gene's, I would bet 2:1 the 3080 would measure better in THD+N and likely about the same or slightly worse in SNR.
 
Z

Zega

Audioholic Intern
Hmm. My own experience with my 2003 RXV3300 at least is that it has the Yamaha “natural” sound and I can only get that type of tone from my 2016 RXA2060 if I purposely choose “YPAO Natural” in the settings. If I choose “Pass Through”, it really doesn’t exhibit any particular tone to set it apart from a current Denon or Pioneer etc. Now these are a step or 2 below the flagships but thinking it could be a similar deal with older vs new.
I have 4 different Yamaha's, 4 Denon's, and 1 Pioneer, from a very wide spectrum of year made (all receivers). They all sound completely unique and different in any given mode. Using the same speakers and everything else. Even two of my flagship Denon's that were made one year right after the other sound completely different. "For those with the ears to hear, let them hear" Not a big deal though. We all enjoy what we like. And that is all that matters.
 
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PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I have 4 different Yamaha's, 4 Denon's, and 1 Pioneer, from a very wide spectrum of year made (all receivers). They all sound completely unique and different in any given mode. Using the same speakers and everything else. Even two of my flagship Denon's that were made one year right after the other sound completely different. "For those with the ears to hear, let them hear" Not a big deal though. We all enjoy what we like. And that is all that matters.
Right, no point to debate this, it's subjective with no proof so people can claim whatever they feel like..
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Come to think of it, I have had 1 Yamaha, 2 Sony ES, 6 Denons, 2 Maranatz (AVCs) uims; and of course a number of preamps, integrated amp and power amps.. They all sounded different, the Sony ES and the Yamaha were warm, wide sound stage, and very airy, the Denons were more neutral, slightly dark, the Marantz (both) seem bright, all class AB amps and used well below their output limits like vol at -15 to -25.... Go figure!! :D

@AcuDefTechGuy , you have a number of avrs, amps, high end media players etc., care to share your experience of their unique sound signatures too? Be serious though, don't be sarcastic..:D
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Come to think of it, I have had 1 Yamaha, 2 Sony ES, 6 Denons, 2 Maranatz (AVCs) uims; and of course a number of preamps, integrated amp and power amps.. They all sounded different, the Sony ES and the Yamaha were warm, wide sound stage, and very airy, the Denons were more neutral, slightly dark, the Marantz (both) seem bright, all class AB amps and used well below their output limits like vol at -15 to -25.... Go figure!! :D

@AcuDefTechGuy , you have a number of avrs, amps, high end media players etc., care to share your experience of their unique sound signatures too? Be serious though, don't be sarcastic..:D
Voicing electronics is a big business
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I’m not sure I could pick any of the newer receivers out of a double blind test in pure direct (without dsp). Possibly the older ones were more unique.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Come to think of it, I have had 1 Yamaha, 2 Sony ES, 6 Denons, 2 Maranatz (AVCs) uims; and of course a number of preamps, integrated amp and power amps.. They all sounded different, the Sony ES and the Yamaha were warm, wide sound stage, and very airy, the Denons were more neutral, slightly dark, the Marantz (both) seem bright, all class AB amps and used well below their output limits like vol at -15 to -25.... Go figure!! :D

@AcuDefTechGuy , you have a number of avrs, amps, high end media players etc., care to share your experience of their unique sound signatures too? Be serious though, don't be sarcastic..:D
No seriously, though.

The Yamaha’s sounded like a cross between Krell and Boulder. The Denon’s sounded like McIntosh. The Marantz sounded like Mark Levinson. The Sony sounded liked a cross between Bryston and ATI. Parasound sounded like a cross between Marantz and McIntosh. Adcom sounded like a cross between ATI and Denon.

What can I say? I’m not laughing or anything. No smileys here. Seriously.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
No seriously, though.

The Yamaha’s sounded like a cross between Krell and Boulder. The Denon’s sounded like McIntosh. The Marantz sounded like Mark Levinson. The Sony sounded liked a cross between Bryston and ATI. Parasound sounded like a cross between Marantz and McIntosh. Adcom sounded like a cross between ATI and Denon.

What can I say? I’m not laughing or anything. No smileys here. Seriously.
LOL you may not be, but I am...
 
markn

markn

Enthusiast
Well, an update. I got my new 3080 last week and have been digging in to settings. So far, I am very pleased. I love its sound through my B&W's, although I cannot tell how it is different than my z7. I greatest consternation is that while setting up and configuring my roku hdcp handshake with my new lg c9 kept getting screwed up on av2 (stb) input. It resulted in constant video and audio complete cutouts. I use a new 18ghz hdmi cable (I've tested with other devices to know they work) to connect to av2 (direct through) then hdmi 1 (arc) out to the panel. It will work for awhile and then will act up. I have changed to av7 (so far so good). I even then connected a directv to av2 right after I moved roku to av7 to check on the input and it worked perfectly for directv. I do not have hdmi control enabled so no cec or arc to confuse the avr. I have read that it can important to power on panel, then avr, and finally the device, but that seems odd for my circumstance because roku is always on, just in standby until I wake it up. I called Yamaha, but they were unclear. Oh well it seems to be working on av7 so wish me luck. Sound is great and I am pleased with the upgrade. Can't connect the Yamaha controller app (android) to the avr (wired ethernet connection), but I may eventually figure that one out. Big stamp of approval for the 3080. Other than these connection problems (which I hope to resolve) it has been a dream and the lg c9 is amazing.

4th Yamaha and still wouldn't change brands.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
In advanced menu you can change 4K mode
 
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markn

markn

Enthusiast
yep. checked that and it was mode 1 when it arrived. Thanks for check
 

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