Yamaha RX-V6A/TSR-700 views?

XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
You might just walk through all the crossover settings for the mains. That SVS won’t distort at even 120hz. Try 80 thru 120 and get an idea of what it means in terms of letting the sub do some of that work.

What’s the center speaker? Speech from movies will come from the center speaker. A lot of people skimp on the center but it’s an important speaker.
I have the matching Elac Debut 2 center. I’ve not had trouble with dialog in other shows but it was just so bad it seemed it had to be the mix. Sounds like from the other comment it is. Massively poor dialog track.

I have bumped the crossover up but when it gets to high I sense the placement of the sub a bit too much.

I do wish I could have snagged the matching Klipsch center but nothing was in stock with an easy return.

As to Mazer’s comment I get they are different. That’s the point of checking them out. I’ve never heard them so doesn’t hurt to take a listen. I’ve greatly enjoyed the Elacs since getting them especially in two channel mode with the sub. That said there is no way I’d be happy with them without the sub. It takes too much volume to bring out the bass in the Elacs. I’m not an expert or audiophile so I’m sure my tastes don’t require much to be happy but I know what I like. I just want to see if the Klipsch I like enough more (if at all) to justify the cost.


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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I have the matching Elac Debut 2 center. I’ve not had trouble with dialog in other shows but it was just so bad it seemed it had to be the mix. Sounds like from the other comment it is. Massively poor dialog track.

I have bumped the crossover up but when it gets to high I sense the placement of the sub a bit too much.

I do wish I could have snagged the matching Klipsch center but nothing was in stock with an easy return.

As to Mazer’s comment I get they are different. That’s the point of checking them out. I’ve never heard them so doesn’t hurt to take a listen. I’ve greatly enjoyed the Elacs since getting them especially in two channel mode with the sub. That said there is no way I’d be happy with them without the sub. It takes too much volume to bring out the bass in the Elacs. I’m not an expert or audiophile so I’m sure my tastes don’t require much to be happy but I know what I like. I just want to see if the Klipsch I like enough more (if at all) to justify the cost.


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Ya I haven’t seen Tenant yet. Could be just that movie isn’t mixed well. Not sure.
 
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Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
I have the matching Elac Debut 2 center. I’ve not had trouble with dialog in other shows but it was just so bad it seemed it had to be the mix. Sounds like from the other comment it is. Massively poor dialog track.

I have bumped the crossover up but when it gets to high I sense the placement of the sub a bit too much.

I do wish I could have snagged the matching Klipsch center but nothing was in stock with an easy return.

As to Mazer’s comment I get they are different. That’s the point of checking them out. I’ve never heard them so doesn’t hurt to take a listen. I’ve greatly enjoyed the Elacs since getting them especially in two channel mode with the sub. That said there is no way I’d be happy with them without the sub. It takes too much volume to bring out the bass in the Elacs. I’m not an expert or audiophile so I’m sure my tastes don’t require much to be happy but I know what I like. I just want to see if the Klipsch I like enough more (if at all) to justify the cost.


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Did you get the RPs in ebony or walnut? The walnut model is a looker. Hope they are not damaged. Be sure to tell us what you like or don't like about them.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Think @shadyJ mentioned before that the Klipsch speakers don’t get packed well so it’s better to pick them up than risk shipping.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Your talking about the LPF on the sub? Doesn’t the 80hz crossovers stop the signals above that negating the LPF? Sounds like I misunderstand how that works.


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No. I think he means the LPF of the LFE channel.
The crossover only affects the redirected bass from the speakers. When you set the XO, bass below that point goes to the sub. The LFE(.1) channel is completely separate. It’s only present in movie soundtracks and contains content from 3 to 120hz. When you change the lpf of lfe, you a are just limiting the upper frequency range. This can be helpful if you have localization issues, but most lfe tracks don’t have much content that high.
You did mention the lpf on the sub. That will be active depending on which input you choose on the sub. Either the LFE in, which lets the AVR do bass management, or just line in, which lets the sub do the XO/lpf.(some have a switch to let you decide) You can do that manually to use cascading xo’s but that’s another rabbit hole.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
It would seem natural to combine the 2 apps but I haven’t seen that question asked of Yamaha anywhere.

On my RXA2060, yes I need to connect to a Spotify app on my phone to start a playlist but after it’s selected the Yamaha can be detached and powered off and on etc to play that same playlist with the play and skip buttons. When you go to net for Spotify you just press play button on remote and it starts playing where you left off. So if you only had one playlist technically you would never need to go to the phone app. However the phone app for Spotify app is nice. It uses my phone volume buttons for the Yamaha volume and I like to go to different playlists.

For Pandora on my RXA2060, that one doesn’t ever contact a phone app or anything. It can be controlled from on screen and I can create stations from the remote. However, Pandora is lower bitrate than Spotify so it’s not as good quality.

I haven’t tried Tidal or Deezer and there’s no support for Amazon Music on my 2060.
I setup Deezer a few days ago and although HIFI level flatlined my internet, Deezer Premium works good. I’m liking it a little better than Spotify. It needs the Musiccast app to change playlists and doesn’t redirect me to a separate app like Spotify does. It stays in the Musiccast app.

Maybe will try Tidal too.
 
XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
No. I think he means the LPF of the LFE channel.
The crossover only affects the redirected bass from the speakers. When you set the XO, bass below that point goes to the sub. The LFE(.1) channel is completely separate. It’s only present in movie soundtracks and contains content from 3 to 120hz. When you change the lpf of lfe, you a are just limiting the upper frequency range. This can be helpful if you have localization issues, but most lfe tracks don’t have much content that high.
You did mention the lpf on the sub. That will be active depending on which input you choose on the sub. Either the LFE in, which lets the AVR do bass management, or just line in, which lets the sub do the XO/lpf.(some have a switch to let you decide) You can do that manually to use cascading xo’s but that’s another rabbit hole.
Got it. Thanks for the clarification. I’m using the LFE input on the PC-2000 pro so at least I have that much right. Hadn’t dawned on me until you mentioned the .1 channel that the mix would use the dedicated channel. Somewhat crazy thought but do people ever run a dedicated sub for the .1 channel of a surround mix and another for the redirected bass or is that just a stupid waste of money.

Also if you have your system set with Large speakers and no bass redirection it’ll still send .1 surround channel to a sub if the sub is listed as active?


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XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
Did you get the RPs in ebony or walnut? The walnut model is a looker. Hope they are not damaged. Be sure to tell us what you like or don't like about them.
Ebony. Walnut looks great but clashes with some things I already have and what would be considered poor choices in wood for some existing pieces according to my wife.

I’ll be sure and report back on what I think. I still haven’t unpacked. We just got 42 inches of snow last night and I was dead tired shoveling so they sit in the box and wait until another day for now. I tried to have them shipped to store but BB wouldn’t allow it. The Elacs were packed extremely well and double boxed so was surprised when there was nothing else protecting the insides on the Klipsch except some plastic bag I could see through the gaping hole in the side of the box.


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XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
Ya I haven’t seen Tenant yet. Could be just that movie isn’t mixed well. Not sure.
Just saw this tonight in case anyone was curious:


Lost some respect there for Mr. Nolan. If your characters have dialog it must be important so make it so you can understand it for gosh sake. Nuts he thinks it is ok to drown out the dialog. Of course ironic I make Tenet my first real movie to play on my system since I got the speakers and sub and then think something is wrong. My wife kept asking me what the heck I did to make it sound like garbage. Great way to sell her on this. Murphy strikes!!


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XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
FYI for those that saw my earlier question about driving the sub w/my front channels and keeping the bass output to the fronts...

It appears that you can do this on the TSR-700 (and presumably the V6A) and I stumbled upon it quite by accident or at least it appears to be working as I expected it in 2-channel mode. If you set your FRONT to LARGE and the keep the SUB ON then turn EXTRA BASS ON it starts outputting bass to the SUB and seems to keep the bass output to the fronts too.

Maybe someone can confirm that I'm not making a huge mistake here but that seems to be how it worked.
 
G

Gmoney

Audioholic Ninja
FYI for those that saw my earlier question about driving the sub w/my front channels and keeping the bass output to the fronts...

It appears that you can do this on the TSR-700 (and presumably the V6A) and I stumbled upon it quite by accident or at least it appears to be working as I expected it in 2-channel mode. If you set your FRONT to LARGE and the keep the SUB ON then turn EXTRA BASS ON it starts outputting bass to the SUB and seems to keep the bass output to the fronts too.

Maybe someone can confirm that I'm not making a huge mistake here but that seems to be how it worked.
Your right, I have my RX-V6A setup like this. On my TSR-7790 you could setup Configuration like this also.
3F0CB3A1-0317-45E7-8FDF-4BDC91193CB8.jpeg
 
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Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
Didn’t try those settings with mine. Extra Bass is supposed to work with any size fronts and with or without a sub to give a little, well, extra bass.
51F84C6E-BED2-44E9-B333-2F741F76F0E1.jpeg
 
XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
Didn’t try those settings with mine. Extra Bass is supposed to work with any size fronts and with or without a sub to give a little, well, extra bass.
I believe they do work with either size I've just usually had mine set to small and in that instance EXTRA BASS always just did that - add extra bass. However, when I set the speakers to large it with the fronts in 2-channel mode it completely ignores my subwoofer playing music UNTIL I turn EXTRA BASS ON then it drives bass out the subwoofer. I have no idea if it pays any attention to any crossover setting at this point but I was excited that it worked. I have to play with it more I think.
 
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Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
It seems, at least according to the manual, that regardless of the size of the front speakers, the subwoofer should produce low frequencies if set to Use. It doesn’t say anything about Extra Bass needing to be on for the subwoofer to work if front speakers are set to Large. Weird.
AA47DB33-6955-471D-94CA-EFE2A9F20536.jpeg
 
XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
Did you get the RPs in ebony or walnut? The walnut model is a looker. Hope they are not damaged. Be sure to tell us what you like or don't like about them.
RE: Klipsch RP-8000F vs DF62 (Elac Debut 2.0 6.5in)

This isn't a review or even remotely a scientific comparison but just my impressions after playing around and doing the best A/B test I could with the RP-8000F and DF62's I had. I've had the Elac's for several weeks now and liked how they sounded but the Klipsch were in stock and on-sale at Best Buy and with extended returns I had the opportunity to try them out. I really wanted to see if the extra money gained me extra sound quality and performance and see if it was worth it.

Let me first just say, mechanically the binding posts on the RP-8000F's absolutely suck. I was pissed enough with them after unboxing that I almost just said the heck with it but I persisted. You cannot use a banana plug with these speakers or at least not one that isn't angled. I had the pull the plugs off my speaker wires to get them to work and the holes are unreasonably small if you have a heavier gauge speaker wire. Had I gone the extra mile to solder them I'd have been up a creek. That said, the Elac's, do take a banana plug but since I'd already taken mine off putting them back on to test again along side the RP-8000F was a bit of a pain. The binding posts are really too close together to turn them with sufficient force as you can't get your fingers around them or in between the posts. The holes are big though and take speaker wires being inserted without fuss.

Where the RP-8000F makes up for this binding post issue for me is the magnetically attached grill. Why doesn't everyone do this nowadays? The grills work perfectly each time. Elac's on the other hand have a terrible way of putting the grills on using the posts that take, in my opinion, too much force to go in properly. I despise them but since I don't do this often (including remove/replace speaker wires) these two dings for either speaker aren't important really. I just felt it was worth of commenting.

I'm going to start with the spoiler and go right to the chase, I'm returning the Klipsch and keeping the Elac's. The bottom line for me is the Elac's simply sound better to me. With that said, it is ONLY because I have a decent subwoofer. The Klipsch far surpass the Elac's on the bass when used alone but still aren't the equivalent to having the subwoofer involved which, from my standpoint, puts the bass output for both on even footing since I don't really care. Taking that out of the equation the Klipsch just sound too intense on the high end for me. It's like have a fur coat that keeps you warm but I don't need to feel the individual hairs to appreciate the softness or warmth it provides. Keep in mind too that the Klipsch, in my case, were more than twice the cost of the Elac's. I had to think about whether I'd like the Klipsch or not and if I have to think about it then it simply isn't worth the money.

The odd thing is, up until now, I'd never understood this bright, harsh, sharpness comment that seems to get bantered about here regarding Klipsch. It was my understanding that the RP-8000F's fixed this issue from older Klipsch models and if that is the case I'd hate to hear the old ones. If I was being fair, I'd have to say the Klipsch had some edge on clarity but for me it just was too much what, when I write it hear, doesn't make a lot of sense. Why wouldn't you want something that is MORE clear? Well, all I can say, is you need to hear it. Some people may like it and some may not. There was a warmth and dare I say softness to the sound from the Elac's that just was more pleasant to listen to. Keep in mind though I've never heard a truly high class speaker (in the $5k and up range - maybe even the $2k and up range...) so maybe I just don't know good sound when I hear it. I just know I like the Elac and that's what matters.

And for the record, I did listen to a variety of music and I tend to like quite a variety. There was some electronic, classical, reggae, 80's, you name it. I played the same thing on both sets of speakers after calibrating both sets with Yamaha's YPAO. I also tried it without YPAO (not with everything...YPAO flat was definitely better than none) and I also tried with and w/o the subwoofer. It is clear in the different modes that and during the comparison as I said that the Elac's don't hold a candle to the Klipsch in the low end bass. There is just no contest. It also is notable that the Elac's require a lot more power to get the same volume levels. The bass in the Elac's besides being weaker overall doesn't seem to come out until you get it up there. The Klipsch would have completely blown me out of my living room had I decided to really push the amp to the upper limits. As has been mentioned before, the Klipsch are VERY efficient.

One other thing lest I forget, I did try the Klipsch integrated into my surround. My opinion is that there is even less of a difference there but I don't have a Klipsch center to try. Suffice it to say that I didn't think the Klipsch offered any advantage for me here.

Just for completeness on the comparison, I paid $230 each for the Elac towers which, with tax for my area, was @ $497 total. The Klipsch were $483 each (I know, they've been cheaper) and with tax for the two came to @ $1044. There was just no way in my mind, when coupled with my SVS PC-2000 Pro, that the Klipsch were worth over twice as much. I'm not even sure I'd keep them if they were the same price. On top of that, had I gotten the Klipsch, I'd have probably felt compelled to get the matching center channel speaker adding further to the cost. I really sat here wondering if I liked them better or not for a bit until I went back to the Elac's and then realized I really do like their sound. That sealed the deal for me. If I have to wonder then it isn't worth it. Had the Klipsch given my a WOW moment I'd have kept them probably but that just did not happen.

This makes me wonder what the Uni-FI series sounds like but I doubt I have the power they take to run them so I'm not sure if they'd work for me w/o a bigger amp (if I got my hands on them). I could be wrong but since I like the Debut series so much I can imagine myself liking the Uni-Fi even more. Fortunately, I have a taker for the Elac's if I ever decide to part with them so maybe in a few more Christmas seasons I'll get the chance to try a different sort of upgrade. For now, I'm loving my Elac Debut towers. I hope this helps someone.

FYI - I'm sorry if this really doesn't belong in a thread about Yamaha amps...it is a bit off topic but at least one person wanted to know so I can imagine others might benefit.
 
XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
It seems, at least according to the manual, that regardless of the size of the front speakers, the subwoofer should produce low frequencies if set to Use. It doesn’t say anything about Extra Bass needing to be on for the subwoofer to work if front speakers are set to Large. Weird.
Given the number of bugs there seem to be in the firmware I'm betting it may not be a FEATURE so much as a problem with coding for this rev. Maybe it'll change in a future update.
 
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Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
I may hook my RX-V6A back up tomorrow just to check mine for similar behavior. Hey, you gave the Klipsch a shot and now you know what you like and you will save some money as well. I loved the magnetic grills on my Klipsch Forte II speakers twenty five years ago. Everybody should be using them by now.
 
XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
I may hook my RX-V6A back up tomorrow just to check mine for similar behavior. Hey, you gave the Klipsch a shot and now you know what you like and you will save some money as well. I loved the magnetic grills on my Klipsch Forte II speakers twenty five years ago. Everybody should be using them by now.
I'm always fascinated by how little details and annoyances go unaddressed on products that had to go through multiple revisions in the design process. Am I missing something? Why wouldn't a speaker like the RP-8000F's support banana plugs???
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
Silly question, but are you saying that after removing the dust caps from the speaker terminals that a banana plug could not be inserted into the end? I had an issue with my Dayton Audio 442T speakers. The terminals are shallow and a banana plug can push its way out since it cannot be inserted completely. I had it happen enough times to take the banana plugs off altogether. That was a bad move since I've switched out three more receivers since then and just put them back on at the receiver end.
 
XenoChron

XenoChron

Audioholic
Silly question, but are you saying that after removing the dust caps from the speaker terminals that a banana plug could not be inserted into the end? I had an issue with my Dayton Audio 442T speakers. The terminals are shallow and a banana plug can push its way out since it cannot be inserted completely. I had it happen enough times to take the banana plugs off altogether. That was a bad move since I've switched out three more receivers since then and just put them back on at the receiver end.
If those are dust caps then they are on there in such a way as to make them impossible to remove. I’ve had the end caps before and just taken them out but these don’t move at all and I didn’t want to risk breaking anything. They shouldn’t be that hard to get out if they are. There was specific mention of the binding posts when comparing the Rp-280F (think I got that right) vs the RP-8000F. That left me to believe that removing them wasn’t possible and I tried very hard to get them out.


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