Yamaha RX-A 80 Series Receivers Feature Artificial Intelligence

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snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Hmm. Ya I would expect a Dec firmware update soon though. Worth waiting a couple weeks for that. Anything on AVS forum sounding similar to your issues?
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
My problems with my Yamaha RX A3080 must be due to me. My feeling about the way Yamaha support handlled it was (and still is) my issue. That is the reason I want to change AVRs.

Nothing on other forum that I’m aware of.
 
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paveldeg

Audiophyte
Interesting. So AI may decrease the Bass/Subwoofer levels to make dialogue more intelligible or clearer? That's not cool. :D
Not sure if bass actually gets decreased, or it's just psychoacoustical efect of lifitng dialog, which I set to +3 (max).
Generally I find that I prefer DD/DTS movies without AI, but older movies without surround or some primitive surround sound benefit from AI greatly.
 
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paveldeg

Audiophyte
Dialogue lift isn’t specific to 2018 models with AI.
Yeah, just realized that, it remains on even when I switch sources! I think ideally it should be configurable per input, now I have to check every time digging though multiple levels of menu.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Yeah, just realized that, it remains on even when I switch sources! I think ideally it should be configurable per input, now I have to check every time digging though multiple levels of menu.
Can't you use the AV Controller App to adjust the Dialogue Lift and Dialogue Level?

 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I never use the Dialogue Lift feature.

I only use the Dialogue Level feature on the phone/iPad AV Controller app to quickly adjust the Center Channel Levels.
 
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paveldeg

Audiophyte
Can't you use the AV Controller App to adjust the Dialogue Lift and Dialogue Level?
Sure, very nice app (but drains out my smartphone quickly). I just wish they would let configure this per input, I have no need for dialog manipulation for my DLNA server, since it's for music only.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Sure, very nice app (but drains out my smartphone quickly). I just wish they would let configure this per input, I have no need for dialog manipulation for my DLNA server, since it's for music only.

That would be way too easy. :D

The AV Controller app never drains my phone battery (Samsung S9+ phone).
 
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snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
My problems with my Yamaha RX A3080 must be due to me. My feeling about the way Yamaha support handlled it was (and still is) my issue. That is the reason I want to change AVRs.

Nothing on other forum that I’m aware of.
Well maybe a Christmas miracle. My buggy Bluetooth issues on the A770 were fixed with the October firmware. (Nobody had really admitted the issue was there but it was in the list of fixes include on the update and immediately after the update it worked like my older Yamahas.).
 
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andyblackcat

Audioholic General
The Center Channel is salient.

Boosting the Center Channel Dialogue Volume Level during action scenes seems like an interesting idea.

I think a lot of action movies have this problem of low volume level dialogues during action scenes.

For me, I always set my Center Channel Level +3dB higher than all the other channels anyway, so I don't have this issue. :D
I read Gene's review partly on it when reading about "AI" I went over to the Yamaha site to see what is current as this post was early in the year and now its coming up to December in few days.

I'm kinder of curious if the Yamaha "AI" can make complex films like:
ALIEN
The Fast And The Furious
HEAT
sound better I just used three films that I'm familiar with where LR channels due to the mix levels and sound frequency effects tend to curse audio masking with certain sounds in the centre channel not just dialouge. Foley footsteps seems to be one thing I noticed.

Play HEAT (1995) everyone has that movie and tell me if you can hear Neil McCauley, footsteps and panting breathing while he runs across the airports runway with a jet-airliner on the left channel with its engines roaring away.
HEATNeilDC-102.jpg

Tell me if you can Easily hear it (Easily). I bet the answer is no I can't hear it not without doing this and doing that.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My RX A3080 isn’t doing it now.
You mean for now, the music streaming from Pandora WiFi is NOT cutting in and out?

Does it happen more often at certain times of the day?

Like does it happen more often when there are more people in your neighborhood eating up the internet bandwidth?

Are most people in your neighborhood at work now?
 
A

andyblackcat

Audioholic General
I never use the Dialogue Lift feature.

I only use the Dialogue Level feature on the phone/iPad AV Controller app to quickly adjust the Center Channel Levels.
I never used or hardly have used the dialouge level on my Marantz SR6012.

I listen to each LCR one at a time to see whats the problem with level and frequency masking. Its not just spoken dialouge that is a load of tosh!

Centre carries music dialouge and effects (DME)
I bet most don't get an uplifting feeling with the ending scene of HEAT (1995) as Neil slowly slips away you can hear his slow breathing with bass in the centre but the music level frequency on LR masks its heavily and I bet 99% of home cinemas can't hear that detail at the end. I'm not perfect I just listen to the movie.

I have a video in an hour so its only an example as I been frustrated with centre DME getting masked by LR over the years with digital mixes. Analogue Dolby matrix movie mixes the centre is going to be masked no matter what as the signals from LR or any centre phantom signal within the discrete stereo that is folded down onto the centre is going to mask signal.

In the real world we hear a lot of audio masking and we only hear the sound/s once in real life. A movie is repeated and can be ether played back at best or worse with lots of other sound frequencies being hidden from our ears, when discovering the sound it really is like, Easter time with the new hidden Easter egg surprise!

So what of the common now DSP crossover systems? It was my belief? I now experiment with the slopes and band-pass BP filters to get the most out of screen channels.

So what of this Yamaha "AI" is it another type of dynamic EQ that has had special modification as I have used Dynamic EQ in the past to automatically adjust but I noticed some drawbacks after a while with it. Its okay device I wouldn't knock it.

I can list countless movies that sound complex on disc as VHS doesn't carry Dolby Digital unless its DVHS Dtheater. :D

Heat
The fast and the furious
Alien
I'm on medication :D no that is not a movie :D I have thousands give me a break. :D

Alien (1979) can anyone hear Ripley, when she calls out to, Parker when the Alien has had Lambert and Parker for dinner. :D You Alien fans know the scene! It has pressure pipe system that is heard and low level engine rumble noise and centre carries Ripley sniffing and breathing and the words "Parker" have details of slight echo to give sense of the space ship interior hallways that are bare metal so would have an echo in that ship. Also when Dallas and the others exit the ships airlock you can hear footsteps in the centre channel but the loudness of the wind blowing around on LR, now go and watch, and listen careful at the scene again. Most AVR's with no DSP crossover for matched speakers LCR is gonna have a real hard time for the listener to hear all that detail.

The fast and the Furious, (2001) where Don friend gets shot down and then with rage he walks towards the garage to start the Charger car up. Music LR heavily masks the centre channel Foley footsteps as the footsteps are most important part of the whole movie. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I never used or hardly have used the dialouge level on my Marantz SR6012.

I listen to each LCR one at a time to see whats the problem with level and frequency masking. Its not just spoken dialouge that is a load of tosh!

Centre carries music dialouge and effects (DME)
I bet most don't get an uplifting feeling with the ending scene of HEAT (1995) as Neil slowly slips away you can hear his slow breathing with bass in the centre but the music level frequency on LR masks its heavily and I bet 99% of home cinemas can't hear that detail at the end. I'm not perfect I just listen to the movie.

I have a video in an hour so its only an example as I been frustrated with centre DME getting masked by LR over the years with digital mixes. Analogue Dolby matrix movie mixes the centre is going to be masked no matter what as the signals from LR or any centre phantom signal within the discrete stereo that is folded down onto the centre is going to mask signal.

In the real world we hear a lot of audio masking and we only hear the sound/s once in real life. A movie is repeated and can be ether played back at best or worse with lots of other sound frequencies being hidden from our ears, when discovering the sound it really is like, Easter time with the new hidden Easter egg surprise!

So what of the common now DSP crossover systems? It was my belief? I now experiment with the slopes and band-pass BP filters to get the most out of screen channels.

So what of this Yamaha "AI" is it another type of dynamic EQ that has had special modification as I have used Dynamic EQ in the past to automatically adjust but I noticed some drawbacks after a while with it. Its okay device I wouldn't knock it.

I can list countless movies that sound complex on disc as VHS doesn't carry Dolby Digital unless its DVHS Dtheater. :D

Heat
The fast and the furious
Alien
I'm on medication :D no that is not a movie :D I have thousands give me a break. :D

Alien (1979) can anyone hear Ripley, when she calls out to, Parker when the Alien has had Lambert and Parker for dinner. :D You Alien fans know the scene! It has pressure pipe system that is heard and low level engine rumble noise and centre carries Ripley sniffing and breathing and the words "Parker" have details of slight echo to give sense of the space ship interior hallways that are bare metal so would have an echo in that ship. Also when Dallas and the others exit the ships airlock you can hear footsteps in the centre channel but the loudness of the wind blowing around on LR, now go and watch, and listen careful at the scene again. Most AVR's with no DSP crossover for matched speakers LCR is gonna have a real hard time for the listener to hear all that detail.

The fast and the Furious, (2001) where Don friend gets shot down and then with rage he walks towards the garage to start the Charger car up. Music LR heavily masks the centre channel Foley footsteps as the footsteps are most important part of the whole movie. :D
I don't usually have to mess with the Dialogue level either, especially on the newer contents.
 
Good4it

Good4it

Audioholic Chief
You mean for now, the music streaming from Pandora WiFi is NOT cutting in and out?

Does it happen more often at certain times of the day?

Like does it happen more often when there are more people in your neighborhood eating up the internet bandwidth?

Are most people in your neighborhood at work now?[/QUOT

Yes I mean FOR NOW and most of my neighbors are retired like me. I don’t know their Wifi habits but I tried a Cat6 direct cable quite awhile ago and it didn’t seem to make any different result.
Yes and I used a cat6 cable quite awhile ago, no difference. No on different times of the day.
 
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andyblackcat

Audioholic General
I don't usually have to mess with the Dialogue level either, especially on the newer contents.
I did say I did a video for you! It rambles on a bit then my Cannon camera said enough is enough it shut the video rec off :D no not really the space on the SD 64Gb card needs to have space for still pictures it is a DSLR. Anyway video is still loading about an hour so.

I have noticed with say San Andreas (2015) "the rock" breathing sound as he approaches in the helicopter towards San Francisco being Earthquake'd! That was kinder of a surprise as usually softer sounds on movies was rather way soft in frequency level. The rock dialouge "oh my god" that is clear against the LR channels or even when running in five screen channels.

Even hearing 70mm in THX cinema at London's Empire Leicester Square 29 years ago mention few of the 70mm marathon STAR TREK III when captain Kirk kicks that Klingon in the face with his boot! The LR channels are having Genesis-Quake BIG TIME! Yet I not only heard I happen to feel just about everything on that movie that went unnoticed in regular cinemas.

I! BOOT! Have had! BOOT! Enough with, you! BOOT! = THX Audience that was listening, applauding! Each of those words and the foley was startlingly IMPACTING that I not even noticed with imax 70mm and its 10kw and 44 speakers. THX rules Okay!

You try STAR TREK III (1984) at home and many pressings the worst is the bluray that is dreadful listening 7.1 remix. Use the Earlier DVD pressings if you happen to not sold them. THX TAP had some involvement with Star Trek III while reading the sci-fi magazine "Fantastic Films" I still have it in the store cupboard. Also have "Starlog magazine".

If you have been to a real THX cinema the soundtrack reproduction notifiable in the bass for screen channels and subs just liturally presses constantly against the body! The new Dolby Atmos cinema isense around here lacked plus it doesn't even have a baffle wall. It was just loudness with few boom slams that rocked me back in the seat few times but the lows on "the Bests 2" if it was playing on the original THX at the UCI High Wycombe I would have been feeling that soundtrack even at the softer moments pressing against my body. Yeah sure Real Life doesn't do that only movies in a decent THX cinema do that.

And the dialouge just seems to come so many light-years forward with frequency clarity.

Even feeling captain Kirk boot in Star Trek II (1982) when he puts his feet up on a stool in front of the fireplace while McCoy lectures him. You know the scene now can you feel Kirk boot on your centre channel against your body without stain or cursing audible room buzzing or rattling noises as you should only be hearing and feeling the soundtrack.

If I had to do that proper I need some JBL 4675A but my room is too narrow for three across the front five not possible the horns are 3 feet square my room narrows to 9' 2" so they be side by side with horns and the depth sticks out a fraction over 3' feet and I don't fancy losing 1 foot in the room. I could load my JBL 12SR up with different 12" bass drivers to push them few extra volts for a few more db more. Thinking of a 2206. I can get some from the five fronts but takes some tuning and repeated listening/feeling what I feel against my body my hands on the seat armrests or body sat in the seat. I have analyze all that.

Do you think Yamaha "AI" will improve the "Spock Bump"!? Now that is nice feeling of logical motion from the screen channels when Spock bumps into the door sealing between the reactor chamber and the rest of the engineering.

Yeah time to play the older DVD format. :D
 
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andyblackcat

Audioholic General
Living the dream. :D

Yeah, it does seem DSU and DTSNX provide more center-speaker presence. For vocals, it seems like the movies or SACD music where the vocal is mainly in the center speaker.

For me, MCH Stereo seems to have its place in instrumental music (no vocals).

Bottom line is, I agree with you that now, more than ever, MCH Stereo, DSU, and DTSNX sound pretty darn great for both music and movies.
I have another video up ranting in short while where I noticed with DSU tends to cancel out half panned sounds in the centre anything from effects or dialouge and music and keeps it a bit more harder over on Left or Right.

dts neural X does more less same thing expect I noticed the half panned sounds still tend to seep out of the centre by a small degree over Dolby pro-logic that had its own issues of cross-talk.

I noticed Bass in the centre with Dolby DSU seems to be reduced level frequency kinder like a crossover filter and redirected towards left right channels.

dts Neural X tends to keep the bass more in centre with a mild bit of it at left and right channels. This is easy to notice with Behringer DCX2496 DSP crossover system or use a dbx driverack or electronic crossover with MUTE buttons so you can monitor any channel or speaker driver.

Also with sound passing through the THX monitor to the trueRTA I can see the frequncuy and what is happening with the wormhole scene from Star Trek the motion picture (1979) original laserdisc mix not that dreadful bluray 7.1 remix with waxy DNR faces.

There seems to be something happening in the bass with DSU with monitoring Centre between 50Hz and 100Hz? With dts Neural X with repeat playing of the same wormhole scene it does have BASS in it. :D I see more even frequency in the centre channel.

Dolby Pro-Logic now the bass will be full in the centre channel but will have cross-talk between some of the half panned frequency sounds.

Dolby DSU or dts neural X doesn't improve dialouge with dts Neural X seems that its a frequancy processing taking place and even altering a DSP crossover can alter recorded voice being played over a speaker or maybe its some Fancy DSP device that changes the sound process at a very fast speed.

With other close listening to (centre only) with LR muted and knowing the mix on Star Trek 1, where Spock uses the tricorder and where he is positioned on the screen and how mixers like to pan sounds to match screen positions or use it for off screen I can hear some sort of pumping effect going on? Where captain Kirk speaks about reinstating Mr. Spock and hearing the tricorder, (I can hear some sort of pumping effect). I know most on the forums here will only listening to theirs as whole due to type of home cinema set-ups.

I've had the Dolby CP500 not wired up in months now because the blasted Marantz SR6012 and nearly most AVR's now seem to lack a RECORD OUTPUT where I could use the CP500 with Onkyo TX-SR875 and any video mode that was switched I could have a Lt Rt output from the Onkyo over to Dolby CP500 to compare digital with matrix soundtracks.
 
gene

gene

Audioholics Master Chief
Administrator
I have another video up ranting in short while where I noticed with DSU tends to cancel out half panned sounds in the centre anything from effects or dialouge and music and keeps it a bit more harder over on Left or Right.

dts neural X does more less same thing expect I noticed the half panned sounds still tend to seep out of the centre by a small degree over Dolby pro-logic that had its own issues of cross-talk.

I noticed Bass in the centre with Dolby DSU seems to be reduced level frequency kinder like a crossover filter and redirected towards left right channels.

dts Neural X tends to keep the bass more in centre with a mild bit of it at left and right channels. This is easy to notice with Behringer DCX2496 DSP crossover system or use a dbx driverack or electronic crossover with MUTE buttons so you can monitor any channel or speaker driver.

Also with sound passing through the THX monitor to the trueRTA I can see the frequncuy and what is happening with the wormhole scene from Star Trek the motion picture (1979) original laserdisc mix not that dreadful bluray 7.1 remix with waxy DNR faces.

There seems to be something happening in the bass with DSU with monitoring Centre between 50Hz and 100Hz? With dts Neural X with repeat playing of the same wormhole scene it does have BASS in it. :D I see more even frequency in the centre channel.

Dolby Pro-Logic now the bass will be full in the centre channel but will have cross-talk between some of the half panned frequency sounds.

Dolby DSU or dts neural X doesn't improve dialouge with dts Neural X seems that its a frequancy processing taking place and even altering a DSP crossover can alter recorded voice being played over a speaker or maybe its some Fancy DSP device that changes the sound process at a very fast speed.

With other close listening to (centre only) with LR muted and knowing the mix on Star Trek 1, where Spock uses the tricorder and where he is positioned on the screen and how mixers like to pan sounds to match screen positions or use it for off screen I can hear some sort of pumping effect going on? Where captain Kirk speaks about reinstating Mr. Spock and hearing the tricorder, (I can hear some sort of pumping effect). I know most on the forums here will only listening to theirs as whole due to type of home cinema set-ups.

I've had the Dolby CP500 not wired up in months now because the blasted Marantz SR6012 and nearly most AVR's now seem to lack a RECORD OUTPUT where I could use the CP500 with Onkyo TX-SR875 and any video mode that was switched I could have a Lt Rt output from the Onkyo over to Dolby CP500 to compare digital with matrix soundtracks.
I don't like the DTS:X Upmixer at all for 2CH music or non-discrete surround sound. I don't know what DTS did but the old Neural:X was far superior IMO. Stick with the Dolby Upmixer as they clearly have the better upmixer in this generation of "immersive surround sound".
 
A

andyblackcat

Audioholic General
Oh and backing up a bit I did a test many years ago now using pro-logic decoder wired to one of Dolby digital decoders LCR outputs for centre phantom upper channel effect oh well before Dolby Atmos and 2012 a few years before that. I was frustrated with scene in Beverly Hills Cop (1984) where Foley gets thrown out of F-ing window. LOL I hear the glass shattering and then the smaller pieces of glass on one stage channels forget which I think right channel? But even with Dolby digital 5.1 remix I could still hear some part of half panned sound of the glass in the centre channel.

What I did was take another Yamaha processor a DSP100 and wired it in a way I forget now I have to find the thread where I posted it years ago. What I did basically was create a anti-phase signal on top of the centre channel so that any half panned sounds in the centre channel will be candled or greatly reduced thus making the Left Right more exciting to listen too as well as improving the centre channel be it music dialouge or effects but music was complex as it was happening so often with random musical frequencies moving up and down in amplitude.

I also created a way of making the centre channel pan sounds move across the room to middle overhead speaker to the back surround it took two Dolby pro-logic decoders to make that work and bit of wiring of the cables. It had some flaws with some cross-talk issues.

I'm sure that Dolby labs dts all of them read these forum boards and get the ideas from us or steal the ideas I really don't care. If they can improve on it and put into a simple single package then fine.
 
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