Yamaha Owners’ Thread (AVR, Pre-pro, Amp)

Zildjianmeister

Zildjianmeister

Audioholic Intern
I love that the avr's are being put to the test. Nice to know what's under the hood and how they really perform. The 1080 was one I was looking at.

But isn't there still a difference between real-world use and measurements? In other words, if one didn't know the measurements that failed in different areas, would it be noticed? Unless of course it's really being pushed.

I posted this a while back. It's a review of the Yamaha rxa 870 that AV Nirvana did. Seems like it performed pretty well (in real world use) with some good speakers. I believe they tested with and without an external amp. I was hopeful that Audio Science would have found a great improvement over the lower models. :(

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/yamaha-aventage-rx-a870-av-receiver-review.1870/

Z
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I love that the avr's are being put to the test. Nice to know what's under the hood and how they really perform. The 1080 was one I was looking at.

But isn't there still a difference between real-world use and measurements? In other words, if one didn't know the measurements that failed in different areas, would it be noticed? Unless of course it's really being pushed.

I posted this a while back. It's a review of the Yamaha rxa 870 that AV Nirvana did. Seems like it performed pretty well (in real world use) with some good speakers. I believe they tested with and without an external amp. I was hopeful that Audio Science would have found a great improvement over the lower models. :(

https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/yamaha-aventage-rx-a870-av-receiver-review.1870/

Z
You would not hear any difference. That's why S&V say this. :D

"Measurements for THD+noise, crosstalk, signal-to-noise ratio, and analog/digital frequency response were all within expected performance parameters."
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
My only concern would be the low preamp output. If you don't plan on using it to drive power amps, then great, if you do, then just know that the preamp output may limit your power amp choices somewhat.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
My only concern would be the low preamp output. If you don't plan on using it to drive power amps, then great, if you do, then just know that the preamp output may limit your power amp choices somewhat.
What is the pre-out voltage limit on the A1080?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
My only concern would be the low preamp output. If you don't plan on using it to drive power amps, then great, if you do, then just know that the preamp output may limit your power amp choices somewhat.
Guessing preamp output would be similar on my 2060. Which amps would I be looking for if I was to need an amp someday? Would Monolith3 or a few Outlaw 2200 amps both be viable options?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Guessing preamp output would be similar on my 2060. Which amps would I be looking for if I was to need an amp someday? Would Monolith3 or a few Outlaw 2200 amps both be viable options?
You can't assume that at all. The 2060 likely have the same much larger power supply as the 3060, the output transistors may also be different. I think I might have the service manual and can take a look of the PS and output devices info if you wish.

If it does has a much larger PS and different output transistors, then Yamaha might have relaxed their typically aggressive protective scheme for the 2060/3060 a little, relative to the 1060/860.

I mentioned long time ago in some other threads that I wasn't sure if the 10X0 would be better than the 860 that Gene measured, now we have the confirmation, unfortunately it is "No/or not much" better. I still have hope for the 20X0/30X0 that are much heavier.

To answer you question, consider the following facts:

Pre out Vrms.................... 29 dB gain output................30 dB gain output.....................28 dB gain output

1 V.................................... 99 W ...................................125 W ....................................... 79 W
1.2 V................................. 143 W .................................180 W ....................................... 114 W
1.5 V................................. 223 W ................................. 281 W ...................................... 177 W
2.0 V................................. 397 W ................................. 500 W ....................................... 315 W

So if you are shopping for a 200 W power amp, make sure it has 29 dB of gain and you will in great shape. Something like the Anthem MCA amps will be fine.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
You can't assume that at all. The 2060 likely have the same much larger power supply as the 3060, the output transistors may also be different. I think I might have the service manual and can take a look of the PS and output devices info if you wish.

If it does has a much larger PS and different output transistors, then Yamaha might have relaxed their typically aggressive protective scheme for the 2060/3060 a little, relative to the 1060/860.

I mentioned long time ago in some other threads that I wasn't sure if the 10X0 would be better than the 860 that Gene measured, now we have the confirmation, unfortunately it is "No/or not much" better. I still have hope for the 20X0/30X0 that are much heavier.

To answer you question, consider the following facts:

Pre out Vrms.................... 29 dB gain output................30 dB gain output.....................28 dB gain output

1 V.................................... 99 W ...................................125 W ....................................... 79 W
1.2 V................................. 143 W .................................180 W ....................................... 114 W
1.5 V................................. 223 W ................................. 281 W ...................................... 177 W
2.0 V................................. 397 W ................................. 500 W ....................................... 315 W

So if you are shopping for a 200 W power amp, make sure it has 29 dB of gain and you will in great shape. Something like the Anthem MCA amps will be fine.
Are these powers for 8 ohms or 4 ohms ?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
Are these powers for 8 ohms or 4 ohms ?
8 Ohms. As always, sensitivity in dB/2.83V/1m is key to power needs. As you know, 90 dB/2.83V/1M 8 Ohms is equivalent to 90 dB/1W 4 Ohms, but only 87 dB/1W 4 Ohms.

Basically if the speaker is rated X dB/1W/1M, you don't need to know the nominal impedance, but if rated in X dB/2.83V/1M, then you have to know the nominal impedance in order to use an online spl calculator to figure out power requirement correctly.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
8 Ohms. As always, sensitivity in dB/2.83V/1m is key to power needs. As you know, 90 dB/2.83V/1M 8 Ohms is equivalent to 90 dB/1W 4 Ohms, but only 87 dB/1W 4 Ohms.

Basically if the speaker is rated X dB/1W/1M, you don't need to know the nominal impedance, but if rated in X dB/2.83V/1M, then you have to know the nominal impedance in order to use an online spl calculator to figure out power requirement correctly.
So 2V/28dB Gain/315W/8ohm equals to how much power in 4 ohms?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
So 2V/28dB Gain/315W/8ohm equals to how much power in 4 ohms?
As always, it will theoretically be doubled to 630 W. In reality, don't we all know most power amps don't double down, let alone AVRs. So I guess for the RX-A1080/2080/3080, you may get 50% more into 4 Ohms (test load being a resistor). Bench test measurements would be your best friend on this.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Samurai
You can't assume that at all. The 2060 likely have the same much larger power supply as the 3060, the output transistors may also be different. I think I might have the service manual and can take a look of the PS and output devices info if you wish.

If it does has a much larger PS and different output transistors, then Yamaha might have relaxed their typically aggressive protective scheme for the 2060/3060 a little, relative to the 1060/860.

I mentioned long time ago in some other threads that I wasn't sure if the 10X0 would be better than the 860 that Gene measured, now we have the confirmation, unfortunately it is "No/or not much" better. I still have hope for the 20X0/30X0 that are much heavier.

To answer you question, consider the following facts:

Pre out Vrms.................... 29 dB gain output................30 dB gain output.....................28 dB gain output

1 V.................................... 99 W ...................................125 W ....................................... 79 W
1.2 V................................. 143 W .................................180 W ....................................... 114 W
1.5 V................................. 223 W ................................. 281 W ...................................... 177 W
2.0 V................................. 397 W ................................. 500 W ....................................... 315 W

So if you are shopping for a 200 W power amp, make sure it has 29 dB of gain and you will in great shape. Something like the Anthem MCA amps will be fine.
So 27 dB on Outlaw 2200 and I think 28.8 dB ? on Monolith. I’m guessing those are close enough to 29 dB. Correct?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Overlord
So 27 dB on Outlaw 2200 and 28.8 dB ? on Monolith. I’m guessing those are close enough to 29 dB. Correct?
I don't trust Outlaw's specs on sensitivity because their posted figures have not been consistent. In fact I email them once for clarification. I know the 2200 is more like 28 dB that's because I have one and I measure it, as well as compared it to my other devices with known reliable input sensitivities.

Again, if all you are after is 200 W average, 400 W peak, then you will be fine with either. Adding ext. amp is not just about gaining more output, as we all know you need to double the output to get only 3 dB more spl. Lots of time it just help the AVR work easier especially if the speaker loads are of nominal impedance below 8 Ohms, less distortions and to have ample reserve for media contents that have high dynamics. The Monlith amps offer 24,000 uf of capacitance per channel, and 20,000 uf for the 2200, vs the 2060's 2X12,000 uf total.
 
E

EBN

Enthusiast
I had high hopes for A1080 with Amir measuring it. But seems every machine these days has compromises. Maybe they only concentrate putting those zillion features in and go with the flow. Would be nice if @gene could measure A2080/3080 in near future as Ping mentioned they should be better in some ways.

Some member said after visiting Yamaha factory that all the RX-V and low Aventage receivers are build at one line and A10X0-A30X0 at their own line. But still we see poor results. Shame! Someone really should send these to Yamaha engineers, would love to hear their thoughts.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-yamaha-rx-a1080-avr.9090/
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I had high hopes for A1080 with Amir measuring it. But seems every machine these days has compromises. Maybe they only concentrate putting those zillion features in and go with the flow. Would be nice if @gene could measure A2080/3080 in near future as Ping mentioned they should be better in some ways.

Some member said after visiting Yamaha factory that all the RX-V and low Aventage receivers are build at one line and A10X0-A30X0 at their own line. But still we see poor results. Shame! Someone really should send these to Yamaha engineers, would love to hear their thoughts.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-yamaha-rx-a1080-avr.9090/
Blame it on Sound and Vision. If S&V were still doing measurements on SNR, XT, FR, THD, we would still be getting great measurements even on $300 AVRs. :D

Like I posted a few times, even a $300 MSRP Yamaha has a SNR of 111dB.

Some people may make fun of S&V, but at least when they were doing measurements, we could all depend on them to show SNR, XT, THD, and FR on just about every single AVR, AVP, and Amp that they measure - consistency.
 
P

poleepkwa

Audioholic Intern
I am looking for some help in setting up my CX-5200.
I would like too assign certain settings too a with certain setting that will be remember when I select that input source.

For example:
1. coax for music.
- use YPOA correction (flat)
- YPOA volume, Adaptive DRC ect OFF.

2. HDMI for movies
- use YPOA correction (natural)
- YPOA Volume and Adaptive DRC, ect ON.

What is the easiest way too set this up?
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
I am looking for some help in setting up my CX-5200.
I would like too assign certain settings too a with certain setting that will be remember when I select that input source.

For example:
1. coax for music.
- use YPOA correction (flat)
- YPOA volume, Adaptive DRC ect OFF.

2. HDMI for movies
- use YPOA correction (natural)
- YPOA Volume and Adaptive DRC, ect ON.

What is the easiest way too set this up?
I think you have to set up the SCENES feature that @Otto Plyot was talking about in his posts.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/yamaha-owners’-thread-avr-pre-pro-amp.112880/page-15
 
O

Otto Plyot

Junior Audioholic
I think you have to set up the SCENES feature that @Otto Plyot was talking about in his posts.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/yamaha-owners’-thread-avr-pre-pro-amp.112880/page-15
Scenes would be a way to do that but I think YPAO is global. Either you use it or not. The other audio settings can be set to each HDMI input (Scene). I don't use YPAO now because for me, manually calibrating my audio gave me better results than using YPAO Flat or Natural.
 
S

sakete

Audioholic
Scenes would be a way to do that but I think YPAO is global. Either you use it or not. The other audio settings can be set to each HDMI input (Scene). I don't use YPAO now because for me, manually calibrating my audio gave me better results than using YPAO Flat or Natural.
No, you can set YPAO by scene as well.
 
little wing

little wing

Senior Audioholic
You can also save two Patterns as well. Patterns save speaker configurations. One Pattern could be set to use "Flat" and one could be set to use "Natural" EQ I don't believe Patterns save YPAO Volume and Adaptive DRC settings though. I do find the Patterns option useful on my 3060..
 
P

poleepkwa

Audioholic Intern
It seems that SCENES are indeed the thing I was looking for. On the CX-5200 you can select the YPAO setting that a certain input will use. Pretty comprehensive.
 

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