Yamaha CX-A5200 and MX-A5200

[PENG]

That sounds exactly like I was looking for.
Does YPAO use IIR and FIR filters like Dirac?

Being parametric based, I would say IIR.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That sounds exactly like I was looking for.
Does YPAO use IIR and FIR filters like Dirac?

If I recall correctly YPAO uses FIR.

 

[KEW]

If I recall correctly YPAO uses FIR.

Can you check with Yamaha to verify (since PENG suspects it is IIR)?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Can you check with Yamaha to verify (since PENG suspects it is IIR)?

I just sent Yamaha an email to ask that.

 

[poleepkwa]

So I have a demo version of the CX-A5200 here.
I like it. Quite an improvement in clarity and smoothness over the NAD T758 V3(as it should be for the money involved). Only tested with music sofar. Have to run YPAO over the weekend and test some movies. My Hypex UCD400 poweramps have only XLR inputs and currently I have RCA-XLR cables. Would there be any benefit in changing over too XLR- XLR cable?

 

[dwaleke]

Higher gain and perhaps slightly better SNR.

Reduction of noise if any of it is picked up by the cable run. If your cables are short likely not but only you can say.

 

[poleepkwa]

Higher gain and perhaps slightly better SNR.

Reduction of noise if any of it is picked up by the cable run. If your cables are short likely not but only you can say.

So I assume that if you have run YPAO with RCA outputs and then swop over too XLR- the calibration will have too be redone?

 

[dwaleke]

No need to redo ypao.

 

[poleepkwa]

No need to redo ypao.

If there is higher gain, will the levels not be off?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

So I have a demo version of the CX-A5200 here.
I like it. Quite an improvement in clarity and smoothness over the NAD T758 V3(as it should be for the money involved). Only tested with music sofar. Have to run YPAO over the weekend and test some movies. My Hypex UCD400 poweramps have only XLR inputs and currently I have RCA-XLR cables. Would there be any benefit in changing over too XLR- XLR cable?

I think Gene said he got a 3dB improvement in SNR using XLR when he was testing the Yamaha MX-A5000 amp.

I don't think there is a SQ benefit. The only "benefit" of using XLR is the "locking" connection and the cooler aesthetics.

Yeah, compare YPAO Natural vs Flat vs Through vs Manual.

I got flatter/linear FR from Flat, but I still think Through/Manual sounds better.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Higher gain and perhaps slightly better SNR.

I don't think XLR has higher gains, at least not with ATI, Yamaha, or Denon where the RCA has higher gains than the XLR.

 

[PENG]

I don't think XLR has higher gains, at least not with ATI, Yamaha, or Denon where the RCA has higher gains than the XLR.

Agreed, but I think he probably meant the XLR (balanced) outputs of preamps are typically (not always) 2X that of their RCA (unbalanced) outputs. However, the XLR input sensitivity of power amps are typically 1/2 that of their RCA input sensitivity, sometimes via a selector switch and sometimes automatic, so the overall results would remain the same either way.

 

[PENG]

So I have a demo version of the CX-A5200 here.
I like it. Quite an improvement in clarity and smoothness over the NAD T758 V3(as it should be for the money involved). Only tested with music sofar. Have to run YPAO over the weekend and test some movies. My Hypex UCD400 poweramps have only XLR inputs and currently I have RCA-XLR cables. Would there be any benefit in changing over too XLR- XLR cable?

Just curious, after reading the AH reviews on both CX-A5200 why would you not opt for the CX-A5100?

 

[dwaleke]

Agreed, but I think he probably meant the XLR (balanced) outputs of preamps are typically (not always) 2X that of their RCA (unbalanced) outputs. However, the XLR input sensitivity of power amps are typically 1/2 that of their RCA input sensitivity, sometimes via a selector switch and sometimes automatic, so the overall results would remain the same either way.

This is what I meant.

My Ncore NC252MP modules have the same input sensitivity with unbalanced input compared to balanced input. His UCD modules may be similar.

The ATI NC500 based amplifiers seem to boost the unbalanced RCA input to match the sensitivity of the balanced XLR inputs (assuming 2x voltage from pre-pro xlr) and in the process raise the noise floor.

Experience will vary based on amplifiers used.

 

[poleepkwa]

Just curious, after reading the AH reviews on both CX-A5200 why would you not opt for the CX-A5100?

I got much better deal on my T758V3 with the the 5200 than I would have with the 5100. So there was not that big of a pricejump to the CX5200.

 

[poleepkwa]

This is what I meant.

My Ncore NC252MP modules have the same input sensitivity with unbalanced input compared to balanced input. His UCD modules may be similar.

The ATI NC500 based amplifiers seem to boost the unbalanced RCA input to match the sensitivity of the balanced XLR inputs (assuming 2x voltage from pre-pro xlr) and in the process raise the noise floor.

Experience will vary based on amplifiers used.

My UCD400 monoblocks only have XLR inputs. I prefer the more robust connecters to the RCA, so probably will swop over anyway when I get around too making some new cables.
Did the calibration last night and watched some movies. Having read about how "poor" YPOA are compared too everything else I was pretty impressed with the out of the box calibration. Having tried most of the alternatives I do not think it is any worse. For subs the others (Dirac, ARC,Audessy) does a better job, but in my room at least the subs are not very peaky. I think with the PEQ I can get s better result.

 

[PENG]

This is what I meant.

My Ncore NC252MP modules have the same input sensitivity with unbalanced input compared to balanced input. His UCD modules may be similar.

The ATI NC500 based amplifiers seem to boost the unbalanced RCA input to match the sensitivity of the balanced XLR inputs (assuming 2x voltage from pre-pro xlr) and in the process raise the noise floor.

Experience will vary based on amplifiers used.

True, it does depend on the amplifiers used, even preamplifiers. For example, I have seen quite a few times that on S&V and other test benches the SNR for unbalanced actually measured better than the balanced. In theory, balanced should always do equal or better but it you look at available bench measurements, it seemed to go both ways, more like 50/50??.. I also prefer XLR connections, as mentioned more robust, better feel, consistent fit etc., whereas RCAs connections can be hit and miss.

 

[poleepkwa]

Our local hifimagazine tested the CX5100 and found that the DAC filters introduced some artifacts when something other than the sharp rolloff filters are used. I did not find any other reference too this anywhere else. Did Gene test this too?

 

[PENG]

Our local hifimagazine tested the CX5100 and found that the DAC filters introduced some artifacts when something other than the sharp rolloff filters are used. I did not find any other reference too this anywhere else. Did Gene test this too?

I don't recall him saying anything about measuring with different filter settings. He did report his findings on the THD+N vs frequency, that the 5200 was higher, and 20 dB higher for the front L/R XLR input, see post#119 in the link below for details (but you are probably aware of that already).

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/yamaha-cx-a5200-and-mx-a5200.112380/page-6#post-1326704

Those artifacts due to the use of slow roll off filters should not be audible anyway as they are originated in the ultrasonic band so for normal music and movie contents, it would most likely not be an issue at all. If that bothers you, then just the sharp roll off, we aren't bats afterall.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Our local hifimagazine tested the CX5100 and found that the DAC filters introduced some artifacts when something other than the sharp rolloff filters are used. I did not find any other reference too this anywhere else. Did Gene test this too?

Just keep in mind that whatever people "find" in their measurements, it is completely INAUDIBLE anyway. The SNR of the CX-A5100 is about 131dBA on S&V Magazine.