Yamaha CX-A5200 and MX-A5200

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Is there any real advantage to go from the MX-A5000 to the 5200 apart from the ability to bridge the 2 Channels?

Are the issues with the MX-A5200 the same in the 5000?

Other than the bridged mode, I can’t think of any real advantages of the MX-A5200.

I think the only “issue” is with the bridged Channels.

Since the A5000 cannot be bridged, it doesn’t apply.

 

[bygrave316]

Other than the bridged mode, I can’t think of any real advantages of the MX-A5200.

I think the only “issue” is with the bridged Channels.

Since the A5000 cannot be bridged, it doesn’t apply.

Great, Ill stick with my 5000 for now then.

I dont really have a need for the bridge mode anyway.

Thanks

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Great, Ill stick with my 5000 for now then.

I dont really have a need for the bridge mode anyway.

Thanks

Same here. My MX-A5000 amp is doing perfect so I have no need or desire to change.

 

[poleepkwa]

I have been contemplating buying the CX-A5200 as a replacement for my NAD T758 V3.
Currently I am using the NAD as a pre-pro, with some Hypex poweramps that I built myself.

I have no real issue with the NAD apart from the fact that there is some electronic noise through the speakers and this is my second one that has this issue. This noise is loud enough to hear at the MLP.
I have been contemplating going for something with very good room correction, but I am not sure if Dirac can fix everything. I exchanged the Anthem MRX510 to theNAD T758 V3 to try out Dirac.
Apart from the subwoofer correction, I do not know how Dirac/ARC compares to YPAO. Opinions are that DIrac/ARC best YPAO. That said, my room is not terrible acoustically, so it might be less of an issues than I think.

I have been seriously contemplating taking the CX-5200, but it seems this also has some issues with measurements. I intended to use the XLR's for the front-channels, so that wa a disappointment.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have been seriously contemplating taking the CX-5200, but it seems this also has some issues with measurements. I intended to use the XLR's for the front-channels, so that wa a disappointment.

CX-A5200 THD measurements from Front L/R XLR:

0.005% THD @ 2Vrms (up to 315 Watts/8ohm or 630W/4 ohm if amp has gain of 28dB, which includes most amps). For 26dB Amps, that's up to 200W/8ohm or 400W/4ohm.

0.015% THD @ 4Vrms.

So to put things into perspective, how powerful is your amp and what is the Gain structure? If your amp has a gain of 28dB like most amps and it's no more than 315 Watts per Channel, then you are talking about no more than 2Vrms, which means a THD of 0.005%.

Even if your amp somehow requires TWICE the voltage and need 4Vrms, the THD is still 0.015%.

Can ANYONE hear a THD of 0.015%?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I exchanged the Anthem MRX510 to theNAD T758 V3 to try out Dirac.

What did you think of the overall sound with ARC vs Dirac vs Direct mode (no EQ)?

I think YPAO FLAT or Natural can produce a flatter/more linear FR, but I don't think the only thing that matters is the FR since I prefer THROUGH and MANAUL mode that have less linear FR.

 

[poleepkwa]

CX-A5200 THD measurements from Front L/R XLR:

0.005% THD @ 2Vrms (up to 315 Watts if amp has gain of 28dB, which includes most amps).

0.015% THD @ 4Vrms.

So to put things into perspective, how powerful is your amp and what is the Gain structure? If your amp has a gain of 28dB like most amps and it's no more than 315 Watts per Channel, then you are talking about no more than 2Vrms, which means a THD of 0.005%.

Even if your amp somehow requires TWICE the voltage and need 4Vrms, the THD is still 0.015%.

Can ANYONE hear a THD of 0.015%?

If I remember correctly my UCD400's monoblocks have a gain of 26dB and are rated at 400Watts into 4 ohms.
I guess the main thing I am looking for is a quiet pre-amp.
My speakers are fairly sensitive at 94db, so they reveal noise pretty easily.
So basically you are saying that I should not worry about it?
It is quite a bit more expensive than the NAD T758 so I wanna be sure I get my money's worth

 

[poleepkwa]

What did you think of the overall sound with ARC vs Dirac vs Direct mode (no EQ)?

I think YPAO FLAT or Natural can produce a flatter/more linear FR, but I don't think the only thing that matters is the FR since I prefer THROUGH and MANAUL mode that has less flatter FR.

I liked what both of those did for the sound moving away from the speakers. Both did a good job, although I think Dirac sounds more natural. That said I have made quite a bit of changes to my room, so I will not call it a fact. Think the NAD sounds better (more dynamic than the Athem was). MY speakers are flush-mounted, so I am usually looking to bring the bass down.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If I remember correctly my UCD400's monoblocks have a gain of 26dB and are rated at 400Watts into 4 ohms.
I guess the main thing I am looking for is a quiet pre-amp.
My speakers are fairly sensitive at 94db, so they reveal noise pretty easily.
So basically you are saying that I should not worry about it?
It is quite a bit more expensive than the NAD T758 so I wanna be sure I get my money's worth

I thought you had noise with 2 NADs? Why would you want to try 3rd NAD?

All these numbers - even THD of 0.015% -- are inaudible.

If you're talking about NOISE from speakers, that's SNR (signal-to-noise ratio). That's different.

We will see what the SNR of the CX-A5200 is when Gene posts his review, but the SNR of the CX-A5100 is about 131dBA!

Also keep in mind that most speakers have a lot WORSE noise and THD than any pre-pros and even $300 AVRs!!!

Again, all these numbers are inaudible. I would focus on the price, features, aesthetics, etc.

Sound & Vision Magazine
Yamaha CX5100: SNR 130.92 dBA, XT 94.21 dB
Marantz AV8802: SNR 130.38dBA, XT 93.16dB
Krell Foundation: SNR 128.33dBA, XT 100.61dB
Anthem AVM-60: SNR 127.91dBA, XT 107.90dB
Integra DHC 60.5: SNR 127.11dBA, XT 95.18dB
Classe CT SSP: SNR 122.13dBA, XT 102.93dB
Bryston SP3: SNR 121.59dBA, XT 93.44dB
Cary Audio 12: SNR 121.03dBA, XT 93.41dB
Lexicon MC-8: SNR 120.18dBA, XT 92.64dB
AudioControl M9: SNR 118.63dBA, XT 91.55dB
Denon AVP-A1HD: SNR 114.57dBA, XT 111.95dB
Anthem D2: SNR 113.13dBA, XT 112.97dB
NAD M15: SNR 112.67dBA, XT 109.73dB
Rotel RAP-1580: SNR 99.04dBA, XT 86.1dB

 

[poleepkwa]

I thought you had noise with 2 NADs? Why would you want to try 3rd NAD?

All these numbers - even THD of 0.015% -- are inaudible.

If you're talking about NOISE from speakers, that's SNR (signal-to-noise ratio). That's different.

We will see what the SNR of the CX-A5200 is when Gene posts his review, but the SNR of the CX-A5100 is about 131dBA!

Also keep in mind that most speakers have a lot WORSE noise and THD than any pre-pros and even $300 AVRs!!!

Again, all these numbers are inaudible. I would focus on the price, features, aesthetics, etc.

Sound & Vision Magazine
Yamaha CX5100: SNR 130.92 dBA, XT 94.21 dB
Marantz AV8802: SNR 130.38dBA, XT 93.16dB
Krell Foundation: SNR 128.33dBA, XT 100.61dB
Anthem AVM-60: SNR 127.91dBA, XT 107.90dB
Integra DHC 60.5: SNR 127.11dBA, XT 95.18dB
Classe CT SSP: SNR 122.13dBA, XT 102.93dB
Bryston SP3: SNR 121.59dBA, XT 93.44dB
Cary Audio 12: SNR 121.03dBA, XT 93.41dB
Lexicon MC-8: SNR 120.18dBA, XT 92.64dB
AudioControl M9: SNR 118.63dBA, XT 91.55dB
Denon AVP-A1HD: SNR 114.57dBA, XT 111.95dB
Anthem D2: SNR 113.13dBA, XT 112.97dB
NAD M15: SNR 112.67dBA, XT 109.73dB
Rotel RAP-1580: SNR 99.04dBA, XT 86.1dB

Thanks for the headsup.

Yes, I am talking about the noise that comes out of the speakers (SNR). The NAD's seems to have some stray 5 volts running around the chassis which makes this really strange sounds through the poweramps, but also its own amps. No, I would rather not try another. The first one was much worse, but this one still does that too.

 

[snakeeyes]

Thanks for the headsup.

Yes, I am talking about the noise that comes out of the speakers (SNR). The NAD's seems to have some stray 5 volts running around the chassis which makes this really strange sounds through the poweramps, but also its own amps. No, I would rather not try another. The first one was much worse, but this one still does that too.

Gene has a 5100 and matching amp for sale

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/fs-yamaha-cx-a5100-mx-a5000-for-3k-shipped-in-usa.115729/#post-1341200

 

[PENG]

I have no real issue with the NAD apart from the fact that there is some electronic noise through the speakers and this is my second one that has this issue. This noise is loud enough to hear at the MLP.

To a lot of people, if such noise can be heard at the mlp, it is real issue. If it is the 758 V3, it should be still under warranty right?

 

[poleepkwa]

To a lot of people, if such noise can be hard at the mlp, it is real issue. If it is the 758 V3, it should be still under warranty right?

Still under warranty. However this second one also has the same noises as the first. Although a lot less than the first one.

 

[poleepkwa]

Gene has a 5100 and matching amp for sale

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/fs-yamaha-cx-a5100-mx-a5000-for-3k-shipped-in-usa.115729/#post-1341200

I live in Europe so not so not an option. This also means that he migh put the CX-A5200 on the rack.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If I remember correctly my UCD400's monoblocks have a gain of 26dB and are rated at 400Watts into 4 ohms.

For 26dB Amps, 2V will get you 400W into 4 ohms. So that's still 0.005% THD.

 

[poleepkwa]

I am not really a measurement fascist, so I guess it will be fine. I have not found an answer too this: can YPAO be limited too only do corrections up too 500 Hz or is it always full range corrections?

 

[PENG]

I am not really a measurement fascist, so I guess it will be fine. I have not found an answer too this: can YPAO be limited too only do corrections up too 500 Hz or is it always full range corrections?

I hope you will get the correct answer from experienced users. In case the answer is "No", it's may not be an issue for your set up as it depends on how your own speakers interact with your own room. If you want to see it for the FR results instead of just going by ears, you can take some measurements yourself using a suitable mic with REW. I did that, and found Audyssey XT32 doing a decent job even if I let it EQ full range. The graphs look smoother for sure, but going by ears I couldn't tell much of a difference and really have no preference, so I limit it to 500 Hz (iirc) for now. Based on some of the YPAO graphs posted here on AH, I think it can do a good job doing full range also, at least in some cases.

My own experience does not contradict what Dr. Toole has pointed out about the potential issues with full range EQ at all, as I don't believe he has categorically stated that it would be harmful and/or never result in positive effects. It is a too complicated matter to be generalize in one statement, or paragraph.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

can YPAO be limited too only do corrections up too 500 Hz or is it always full range corrections?

When you apply YPAO, it is full range.

If you don’t want YPAO to EQ above a certain frequency (say 200Hz), then you have to do this:

1. Copy one of the YPAO curves (FLAT or NATURAL) to Manual Parametric EQ (PEQ).
2. Then go to the frequency bands above 198.4Hz and make them all 0.0 dB.


There are 7 Bands available. So YPAO may use 3 bands for under 200Hz and 4 bands above 198.4Hz. If so, make those 4 bands above 198.4Hz all 0.0dB.

Now you have YPAO for only under 200Hz and no YPAO above 200Hz.


All Frequencies in Yamaha PEQ: 15.6 Hz, 19.7, 24.8, 31.3, 39.4, 49.6, 62.5, 78.7, 99.2, 125 Hz, 157.5 Hz, 198.4 Hz, 250 Hz, 315.0 Hz, 396.9 Hz, 500.0 Hz, 630.0 Hz, 793.7 Hz, 1.0 kHz, 1.26 kHz, 1.59 kHz, 2.0 kHz, 2.52 kHz, 3.17 kHz, 4.0 kHz, 5.04 kHz, 6.35 kHz, 8.0 kHz, 10.1 kHz, 12.7 kHz, 16.0 kHz

 

[poleepkwa]

I hope you will get the correct answer from experienced users. In case the answer is "No", it's may not be an issue for your set up as it depends on how your own speakers interact with your own room. If you want to see it for the FR results instead of just going by ears, you can take some measurements yourself using a suitable mic with REW. I did that, and found Audyssey XT32 doing a decent job even if I let it EQ full range. The graphs look smoother for sure, but going by ears I couldn't tell much of a difference and really have no preference, so I limit it to 500 Hz (iirc) for now. Based on some of the YPAO graphs posted here on AH, I think it can do a good job doing full range also, at least in some cases.

My own experience does not contradict what Dr. Toole has pointed out about the potential issues with full range EQ at all, as I don't believe he has categorically stated that it would be harmful and/or never result in positive effects. It is a too complicated matter to be generalize in one statement, or paragraph.

I hope you will get the correct answer from experienced users. In case the answer is "No", it's may not be an issue for your set up as it depends on how your own speakers interact with your own room. If you want to see it for the FR results instead of just going by ears, you can take some measurements yourself using a suitable mic with REW. I did that, and found Audyssey XT32 doing a decent job even if I let it EQ full range. The graphs look smoother for sure, but going by ears I couldn't tell much of a difference and really have no preference, so I limit it to 500 Hz (iirc) for now. Based on some of the YPAO graphs posted here on AH, I think it can do a good job doing full range also, at least in some cases.

My own experience does not contradict what Dr. Toole has pointed out about the potential issues with full range EQ at all, as I don't believe he has categorically stated that it would be harmful and/or never result in positive effects. It is a too complicated matter to be generalize in one statement, or paragraph.

I like to have the options available to limit it if it is deemed necessary. I think it it best to use my ears and compare the before and after.

 

[poleepkwa]

When you apply YPAO, it is full range.

If you don’t want YPAO to EQ above a certain frequency (say 200Hz),then you have to do this:

1. Copy one of the YPAO curves (FLAT or NATURAL) to Manual Parametric EQ (PEQ).
2. Then go to the frequency bands above 198.4Hz and make them all 0.0 dB.


There are 7 Bands available. So YPAO may use 3 bands for under 200Hz and 4 bands above 198.4Hz. If so, make those 4 bands above 198.4Hz all 0.0dB.

Now you have YPAO for only under 200Hz and no YPAO above 200Hz.


All Frequencies in Yamaha PEQ: 15.6 Hz, 19.7, 24.8, 31.3, 39.4, 49.6, 62.5, 78.7, 99.2, 125 Hz, 157.5 Hz, 198.4 Hz, 250 Hz, 315.0 Hz, 396.9 Hz, 500.0 Hz, 630.0 Hz, 793.7 Hz, 1.0 kHz, 1.26 kHz, 1.59 kHz, 2.0 kHz, 2.52 kHz, 3.17 kHz, 4.0 kHz, 5.04 kHz, 6.35 kHz, 8.0 kHz, 10.1 kHz, 12.7 kHz, 16.0 kHz

That sounds exactly like I was looking for.
Does YPAO use IIR and FIR filters like Dirac?