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[PENG]

ARC Genesis made a huge difference for me when it came to subwoofer performance. Experimenting with location also helped, but it was great to just let room correction do its things. It helped address a big dropout in my room and gave me flat response to around 20hz before tapering off. Can’t complain!

With due respect, if (only if) you trust your ears/brain, and have not actually taken measurements to see what's going on, then fine, because only you know what you heard or what you perceived, but that would be subjective so not reliable if comparison listening are done sighted and/or not tightly controlled; and therefore likely wouldn't apply to others who may be less subjective. Just flat for the subs might be easier than flat when integrated with other deep bass capable speakers. If, again only if, only the subs are measured, I would think yes ARC G can do a decent job on flattening the response, though it wouldn't do much to the dips as good as Audyssey or Dirac Live that also won't likely flatten such room modes, but they could still make significant improvements.

I have taken tons of measurements and so I know for a fact, it does not make a "huge difference" if that means huge improvements. Yes it could/would make improvements if one does one's calibration and follow instructions to the letter, but the results won't be as good as Audyssey and Dirac Live. If anyone finds that's not the case, I would love to see measurements that support their findings, but not just what they said/claimed.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

With due respect, if (only if) you trust your ears/brain, and have not actually taken measurements to see what's going on, then fine, because only you know what you heard or what you perceived, but that would be subjective so not reliable if comparison listening are done sighted and/or not tightly controlled; and therefore likely wouldn't apply to others who may be less subjective. Just flat for the subs might be easier than flat when integrated with other deep bass capable speakers. If, again only if, only the subs are measured, I would think yes ARC G can do a decent job on flattening the response, though it wouldn't do much to the dips as good as Audyssey or Dirac Live that also won't likely flatten such room modes, but they could still make significant improvements.

I have taken tons of measurements and so I know for a fact, it does not make a "huge difference" if that means huge improvements. Yes it could/would make improvements if one does one's calibration and follow instructions to the letter, but the results won't be as good as Audyssey and Dirac Live. If anyone finds that's not the case, I would love to see measurements that support their findings, but not just what they said/claimed.

Yep.

Not having actual in-room response REW measurements when saying Anthem's own room correction makes a "huge difference" is like saying Yamaha's own room correction makes a "huge difference" without any REW measurements - all just subjective opinions.

I think you need to have readily available hot-link forum graphs of Dirac vs Audyssey vs Anthem ARC so you can quickly copy/paste them. And then say, "These graphs are proof that Anthem ARC truly isn't even as good as Audyssey or Dirac".

Or post them here again so I can make a hot-link and then I'll be posting them in the future.

 

[NMG]

I definitely haven’t done any REW measurements. All I can really rely on is my ears and having listened to material pre and post ARC. I definitely like how it improved the performance and integration of my sub in the system. I forget what I set the correction cutoff as, but I think it’s around 250-300 hz. I didn’t really like what it did when I set it higher than that. I found that things just sounded dull.

 

[dlaloum]

I definitely haven’t done any REW measurements. All I can really rely on is my ears and having listened to material pre and post ARC. I definitely like how it improved the performance and integration of my sub in the system. I forget what I set the correction cutoff as, but I think it’s around 250-300 hz. I didn’t really like what it did when I set it higher than that. I found that things just sounded dull.

Sounds like the target was set too low in the high frequencies - same effect as turning down the treble...

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

This is using Yamaha’s manual 7-band PEQ and REW/UMIK-1 measurement to get in-room response from +/-5dB to +/-1.5dB. Yeah, I like my bass hot.

If you can get +/-1.5dB response either with manual PEQ or with Audyssey, why pay more for room correction that could cost $20K (Trinnov)?

 

[PENG]

This is using Yamaha’s manual 7-band PEQ and REW/UMIK-1 measurement to get in-room response from +/-5dB to +/-1.5dB. Yeah, I like my bass hot.

If you can get +/-1.5dB response either with manual PEQ or with Audyssey, why pay more for room correction that could cost $20K (Trinnov)?

I think some people just want the expensive Trinnov whether they need their functionality or not. They paid a lot of money for them so it is easy for them perceived the better sound quality. Somewhat like why people are willing to pay a lot of money for exotic dacs, preamps, power amps and even interconnect cables, speaker cables etc.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I definitely haven’t done any REW measurements…

After doing REW measurements in my system, I think it is EXTREMELY EASY to do. And it literally takes about 30 seconds to do one measurement. You click the MEASURE button and bam it’s done.

The only monetary cost is the UMIK-1 microphone for $79 from mini DSP store. The PC REW software is free.

When I bought the UMIK1 a couple of years ago, it was about $120.

UMIK-1

The UMIK-1 is an omni-directional USB measurement calibrated microphone providing Plug & Play acoustic measurement. From speaker & room acoustic measurement to recording, this microphone provides low noise and accurate results you can rely on.

www.minidsp.com

You download the UMIK file using the Serial Number of your UMIK-1 microphone to use the first time you start REW.

You connect the UMIK-1 to your PC (via the supplied USB cable) which is connected to your AVR (via HDMI cable).

No matter what any of these AVR say or do, the ONLY way to be certain how accurate your speakers really are in your own room is to do this 30-second REW measurement.

What if you did REW and found out ARC made your in-room response +/-5dB?

Like Yamaha, Anthem also has manual PEQ. Then what if you could make your speakers +/-1.5dB, instead of +/-5.0dB? Would you keep the +/-1.5dB or the ARC’s +/-5.0dB?

I highly recommend keeping the +/-1.5dB FR because it means you are getting a lot more accurate sound and can hear every note and instrument.

 

[ssmokeyy]

Rew has a huge learning curve. There is info out but it has lots of holes in the info. How to setup the hdmi for rew to signal test, what volume level the avr should benput at to run test , changing graphs, reading the data. I have bee using it for a couple years and the info out now about it almost made me say f it and I use dirac live to Programs like ford scan.

 

[NMG]

Why is REW more accurate at measuring the in room response of the speakers than any of proprietary systems? Not doubting you, just trying to understand why it would be significantly better. I always thought the main difference was how the various systems EQ’d the response, not so much with the base measurements although I do imagine there could be some differences. If they’re all measured at the same mic position though, how far off are they and how would you know which is most accurate?

For my Anthem, are you saying that you’d run REW, see what needs adjusted and then make changes within ARC until you get the corrected curves to match where they should be based on the REW measurements?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Why is REW more accurate at measuring the in room response of the speakers than any of proprietary systems? Not doubting you, just trying to understand why it would be significantly better. I always thought the main difference was how the various systems EQ’d the response, not so much with the base measurements although I do imagine there could be some differences. If they’re all measured at the same mic position though, how far off are they and how would you know which is most accurate?

For my Anthem, are you saying that you’d run REW, see what needs adjusted and then make changes within ARC until you get the corrected curves to match where they should be based on the REW measurements?

So what is the ACTUAL TRUE frequency response of your speakers in YOUR room? Is it +/-6dB? Or +/-5dB? Or +/-4dB?

Does Anthem ARC give you the actual detailed frequency response (FR) graph that ACTUALLY shows you the TRUE frequency response of your speakers?

So other than your very SUBJECTIVE opinion, where’s the PROOF that your speakers FR is accurate or linear?

This is the point of using the independent third-party measurement TOOL like REW.

After you run Anthem ARC or Yamaha YPAO or Audyssey or Dirac or Trinnov, can you show actual proof of your speakers FR to CONFIRM that you are in fact getting your money’s worth of the ARC?

 

[NMG]

Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I’m just trying to understand, from your experience, how much the measured FR differs between ARC, YPAO, Dirac, etc., and REW and why that is.

And I’m still a bit confused as to how I could use REW to make adjustments in my situation. There are quite a few variables within ARC that are adjustable but I’m not sure I could, for example, manually adjust the response of my mains to tone down a peak at a particular frequency. I don’t think it affords that level of precision.

 

[everettT]

Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I’m just trying to understand, from your experience, how much the measured FR differs between ARC, YPAO, Dirac, etc., and REW and why that is.

And I’m still a bit confused as to how I could use REW to make adjustments in my situation. There are quite a few variables within ARC that are adjustable but I’m not sure I could, for example, manually adjust the response of my mains to tone down a peak at a particular frequency. I don’t think it affords that level of precision.

Some room eq allows the import of filters either via a text file or extension. ARC audio allows this but not sure about Anthem's ARC as I've never used it. REW has a greater ability than "set it and forget it" , which is what most RC is about. The more you can tweak, the better the sound. There are really only a few that the automated process gets right and nothing else is needed, so many want an option to make the adjustments. REW allows more exploration, so to speak, to make those tweaks.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Rew has a huge learning curve. There is info out but it has lots of holes in the info. How to setup the hdmi for rew to signal test, what volume level the avr should benput at to run test , changing graphs, reading the data. I have bee using it for a couple years and the info out now about it almost made me say f it and I use dirac live to Programs like ford scan.

REW room acoustics and audio device measurement and analysis software

REW is free software for room acoustic measurement, loudspeaker measurement and audio device measurement and analysis

www.roomeqwizard.com

This may be helpful.
If you visit avnirvana, where REW is hosted, the author of REW, John Mulcahy frequents the website, and is very helpful. There are also many help files there.
This may be helpful if you’re interested in using minidspHD.

REW AutoEQ step by step

miniDSP is a leading manufacturer of Digital Audio Signal Processors for the HomeTheater, Hifi, headphone and Automotive market. Join our large community of Audiophiles, Engineers and DIYers using our innovative products.

www.minidsp.com

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I’m just trying to understand, from your experience, how much the measured FR differs between ARC, YPAO, Dirac, etc., and REW and why that is.

And I’m still a bit confused as to how I could use REW to make adjustments in my situation. There are quite a few variables within ARC that are adjustable but I’m not sure I could, for example, manually adjust the response of my mains to tone down a peak at a particular frequency. I don’t think it affords that level of precision.

It seems that there may be some confusion as to what REW actually is. In short, it is measurement and analysis software. You would use it to measure your speaker system’s response and use those results to make adjustments in ARC. As opposed to built in software like audyssey or ypao etc.
MinidspHD, which is a popular eq option for subwoofers, can import REW data, and target curves and make automatic adjustments to the subwoofers. Even if you don’t have a minidsp you can still use it to see the results of moving subs, or speakers or the effects of room treatments etc.
REW would be considered more accurate, as the umik-1 that’s commonly used with REW is a higher quality calibrated mic, and the software is more granular. It can measure FR, waterfalls, impulse response, distortion, compression, has a built in spl meter, and many other features. The crazy part, is that it’s free.
I think part of what ADTG was saying is that after running the calibration, there’s no way to know what the actual results are. For example, audyssey shows an “after” graph that’s just a prediction of the results, not actual results. I seem to remember ARC does show actual measured results, but I may be wrong.

 

[NMG]

Thanks for the info, that helps clarify things. Based on what I recall from using the Anthem RC (haven’t tinkered in a while because it sounds pretty good to me now) it would require a fair bit of back and forth between REW and the Anthem RC making adjustments, taking measurements, making more adjustments, taking new measurements, more adjustments, etc. Eventually you’d get to the point where (hopefully) the REW measurements are showing acceptable results after various levels of adjustments.

I’d definitely have to learn more about the various adjustment options in the RC software to understand how they impact the measured curves and what to change to get desired results. Maybe a new project for me if I can find some time!