Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

[3db]

I do love me some big full-range towers of power with dual 12” or 10” woofers.

Its much harder to place a pair of tower speakers in a room that balances bass (due to room modes based on room dimensioms) with room layout and they rarely ever meet. I can tell you with 100% certainity that no high end mega dollar towers and monoblocks will give good bass in my great room due to room layout. I needed 3 subs to tame the bass and make it useable in this room. I could use a 4th sub but have no place to put it. Please stop feeding the ignorant.

 

[3db]

Yes, it is uncommon, but it is also a "gotcha" - as the manufacturers do not (usually) advertise their full frequency impedance curve...

All you can say, is that if running 4 ohm (nominal) speakers... you should be cautious, and typically, 8ohm (nominal) speakers, are pretty safe.

So I do tend to warn people ... the low impedance thing can drive you nuts, as the system doesn't sound right, but there is no obvious reason for it... which can lead to random upgrades, and discussions about how different amps "sound different" (yeah they often misbehave differently under low impedance conditions, and their distortion patterns differ...).

And then you try an amp that is stable into 1ohm loads, and suddenly the midrange clicks into place, imaging stabilises, dialogue is intelligible.

It is a frustrating and pernicious problem... (if you have it) - and typically you can only uncover that root cause by finding a proper lab test of the speaker where the full impedance/frequency is mapped....

(and just to exacerbate the problem, most amp manufacturers don't publish data on their 2ohm or 1ohm capabilities....)

All my PSB speakers are nominally 6 ohm and dip into 4 ohm on every system and I have no issue with imaging or smoothness of frequency response across the spectrum, even when listening to them full range at 95+ db. They ars all driven by top three models in Yamaha's line up. Could a budget Yamaha do that without engaging protection circuit or clipping? No. They werent designed to do that but the top model AVRs easily can. I think most modern speaker impedances (designed in the 2000s and up ) regularily dip into 4 ohms and even budget AVRs can drive them in smaller rooms to lesser volumes. Separates arent required to get great sound unless one's speakers have an uncommonly low impedance.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Its much harder to place a pair of tower speakers in a room that balances bass (due to room modes based on room dimensioms) with room layout and they rarely ever meet. I can tell you with 100% certainity that no high end mega dollar towers and monoblocks will give good bass in my great room due to room layout. I needed 3 subs to tame the bass and make it useable in this room. I could use a 4th sub but have no place to put it. Please stop feeding the ignorant.

Hey, the heart wants what the heart wants.

I wasn’t trying to feed anyone. Just innocently stating my own personal preference.

I love big towers, and I ain’t gonna lie.

 

[dlaloum]

I, almost, assume that most speakers today dip into the 4ohm range, definitely not all, but a large market segment and anyone who listens to their content loudly should be aware and purchase accordingly. It's not the 70s anymore and speakers aren't 16ohm nominal based on design.

Well, an 8ohm nominal speaker might well dip down to 4ohm... and that should not be an issue

But a 4ohm nominal speaker, really should not dop down below 3ohm - because "there be dragons"... - or at least not without due notice to the user!

 

[dlaloum]

It appears to me that you have your head firmly placed up the audiophile's proverbial ass swallowing all the audiophile nonsense that they feed you. Ignorance is bliss and you demonstrate that in spades. Like I said earlier, there is too much real data out there that firmly establishes the benefits of a sub in an audio chain despite your strawman arguement of avp not having a sub out.

You would be on much safer ground with your assertion, if you simply stated the benefits of deep/lower bass... rather than claiming it to be a requirement for subs.

A sub, is just an external woofer.
Whether the woofer is external or internal, isn't of particular relevance.

There are of course both pros and cons to the internal vs external design decision - and the associated tuning/calibration requirements etc...

 

[dlaloum]

All my PSB speakers are nominally 6 ohm and dip into 4 ohm on every system and I have no issue with imaging or smoothness of frequency response across the spectrum, even when listening to them full range at 95+ db. They ars all driven by top three models in Yamaha's line up. Could a budget Yamaha do that without engaging protection circuit or clipping? No. They werent designed to do that but the top model AVRs easily can. I think most modern speaker impedances (designed in the 2000s and up ) regularily dip into 4 ohms and even budget AVRs can drive them in smaller rooms to lesser volumes. Separates arent required to get great sound unless one's speakers have an uncommonly low impedance.

Your 6 ohm "nominals" dip down to 4ohm - that is a non issue... and unlikely to disturb even low budget basic amps.

As I said earlier, the issues arise below 3 ohm and definitely below 2 ohm - at that level many/most amps get into trouble.

 

[3db]

You would be on much safer ground with your assertion, if you simply stated the benefits of deep/lower bass... rather than claiming it to be a requirement for subs.

A sub, is just an external woofer.
Whether the woofer is external or internal, isn't of particular relevance.

There are of course both pros and cons to the internal vs external design decision - and the associated tuning/calibration requirements etc...

What are you talking about safer ground? I’m not getting into an argument over semantics. That’s a fool’s folly to do so.

 

[mono-bloc]

It appears to me that you have your head firmly placed up the audiophile's proverbial ass

Thank you for your concise reply, Some on here might very well approve your response, Some might not. For me the jury's still out.
Please carry on, with your fine advice, It's quite obverse your medications working the way it should.

At this point I should really add a "smiley " face, But I will restrain that idea, as it might remind you of your past glories. and we can't
have that. Can we. So inclosing all i will say is, "You have a nice day, and I hope you get everything you wish for."

 

[PENG]

I would repeat, impedance may or may not be an issue, one must know their listening habit and seating distance. Both could have more effects, i.e. a more important factor than the impedance spec itself.

As an obviously exaggerated example, if you sit 3 meter from your speakers, and listen to no more than 94 dB peak, your little amp may be fine with your so called 4 ohm nominal speaker. If you were to listen to 100 dB peak and sit 4 meters from the same speakers, your little amp will have to deliver almost 4X the current during those peaks, can it do it then, is the question.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I would repeat, impedance may or may not be an issue, one must know their listening habit and seating distance. Both could have more effects, i.e. a more important factor than the impedance spec itself.

As an obviously exaggerated example, if you sit 3 meter from your speakers, and listen to no more than 94 dB peak, your little amp may be fine with your so called 4 ohm nominal speaker. If you were to listen to 100 dB peak and sit 4 meters from the same speakers, your little amp will have to deliver almost 4X the current during those peaks, can it do it then, is the question.

Yeah. I sold a KEF R11 + Yamaha RX-A4 to a client in Oklahoma.

People like @TLS Guy would tell him that unless he uses a separate amp, his speakers and AVR would blow up.

My client was planning on getting an excellent ATI amp, but wasn't ready to buy yet. I told him to just take it easy and slowly increase the volume. Now after about 5 years, he still is just using his lowly Yamaha AVR.

TLS Guy still thinks his speakers and AVR will eventually BLOW UP.

But seriously, like you said - it's about speakers, volume, distance.

I sold another client in OKC with a Yamaha RX-A3080 and DefTech speakers with the built-in sub-amp and high sensitivity. But because his volume is so high and distance far, he had to add an ATI amp.

So it's not just ohms. It's ohms, sensitivity, volume, distance, all of the above.

For some cases, even flagship AVRs won't cut it alone. Not even the Denon X8500 or Yamaha RX-A8 - they had to add amps.

But for some cases, even lower-end AVRs will do just fine.

 

[flyboylr45]

Yeah. I sold a KEF R11 + Yamaha RX-A4 to a client in Oklahoma.

People like @TLS Guy would tell him that unless he uses a separate amp, his speakers and AVR would blow up.

My client was planning on getting an excellent ATI amp, but wasn't ready to buy yet. I told him to just take it easy and slowly increase the volume. Now after about 5 years, he still is just using his lowly Yamaha AVR.

TLS Guy still thinks his speakers and AVR will eventually BLOW UP.

But seriously, like you said - it's about speakers, volume, distance.

I sold another client in OKC with a Yamaha RX-A3080 and DefTech speakers with the built-in sub-amp and high sensitivity. But because his volume is so high and distance far, he had to add an ATI amp.

So it's not just ohms. It's ohms, sensitivity, volume, distance, all of the above.

For some cases, even flagship AVRs won't cut it alone. Not even the Denon X8500 or Yamaha RX-A8 - they had to add amps.

But for some cases, even lower-end AVRs will do just fine.

Yeap. The X8500H, as mighty as it is, sounded strained when I cranked it in my large family room. Waiting for my Brystons to arrive but borrowed the ATI AT542NC from the theater room and now it just sounds effortless.