Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

M

Movie2099

Audioholic General
Sadly, AVR manufacturers have not been trend-setters due to heavy dependence on what TV industry does. For example, entire PC industry has video sources and displays predominantly with Display Port, yet no single AVR has those ports. As such, that new market is not available to AVR vendors and millions of PC users would never think of buying an AVR as it is not convenient to integrate those machine into PC home systems. Virtually every monitor has both HDMI and DP ports, for user flexibility. It's a norm. TVs have not been providing this flexibility and, by extension, AVRs have not either.

Until we get first TVs and projectors with DisplayPort, alongside HDMI, no AVR is going to intruduce them, unless, as you said, someone dares to become trend-setter. In recent years, vast marketing attempts have been made to sell AV gear to gamers with consoles. These attempts have been made with HDMI connectivity in mind only. Yet, the biggest source on potential new income from gamers comes from PC world where DisplayPort rules. There are many more gamers on PCs than on consoles. No one has dared to penetrate this market. This needs to change if AVR vendors want wider market and bigger revenues.
When Displayport 2.0 comes out (probably by next year) that might change things a bit. The AVR industry still doesn't have HDMI 2.1 locked down yet. Still having too many issues. But that's to be expected when rolling it out as fast as they did. Everyone who purchased right away is a guinea pig for them.

Displayport doesn't have eARC which is what major TV manufacturers are pushing. So that could be a reason why they don't use displayport. Displayport also doesn't have low latency mode like HDMI does.

I just read that the new Displayport 2.0 will have the bandwidth to hit 80Gbps. Unfortunately nothing on the market will ever hit that. Hitting 40Gbps is hard to do now. There is no 8k content and graphics cards for PC's are not able to push 8k 60hz and maintain 60fps or more. 4k is where PC and TV's are at. Sure TV market has 8k TV's, but that's a huge marketing push. Cable companies are still trying to get 4k content. I don't see 8k happening on the cable side of things for at least another 20 years. If at all. The costs to shoot in 8k is too expensive.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
The costs to shoot in 8k is too expensive.
You mean the cost of 8K resolution digital cameras (RED Ranger Monstro $80K, RED Weapon Helium $50K)?

Some Analog (35mm, 65mm) cameras cost more than that.
 
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M

Movie2099

Audioholic General
You mean the cost of 8K resolution digital cameras (RED Ranger Monstro $80K, RED Weapon Helium $50K)?

Some Analog (35mm, 65mm) cameras cost more than that.
That's just for the camera itself. Not including lenses. Which easily cost $20k+ each. Then factor in the storage space for said movies, shows. 100gig discs would have to be the new normal. Probably more if 8k ever became a standard. Haha. Right now just 1-100gig disc can cost between $10 (on sale) to normal $20/disc. Then the time to format 8k takes double what 4k does. So time is another reason.

Don't plan on 8k being a thing anytime soon. haha I know you have your heart set on 8k but it's not going to be a constant thing in the industry, for a very long time. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
That's just for the camera itself. Not including lenses. Which easily cost $20k+ each. Then factor in the storage space for said movies, shows. 100gig discs would have to be the new normal. Probably more if 8k ever became a standard. Haha. Right now just 1-100gig disc can cost between $10 (on sale) to normal $20/disc. Then the time to format 8k takes double what 4k does. So time is another reason.

Don't plan on 8k being a thing anytime soon. haha I know you have your heart set on 8k but it's not going to be a constant thing in the industry, for a very long time. :D
Well, 8K is too expensive for CONSUMERS, but not too expensive for big movie studios.


$50K - $80K cameras + $20K lenses aren't that big of a deal for a major movie studio. 65 mm Analog cameras and lenses can cost more than that.

If you're saying that 8K isn't feasible for CONSUMERS due to cost, then I think everyone will agree.
 
M

Movie2099

Audioholic General
Well, 8K is too expensive for CONSUMERS, but not too expensive for big movie studios.


$50K - $80K cameras + $20K lenses aren't that big of a deal for a major movie studio. 65 mm Analog cameras and lenses can cost more than that.

If you're saying that 8K isn't feasible for CONSUMERS due to cost, then I think everyone will agree.
haha well you're taking something very specific. An IMAX camera is expensive because it's huge and very specialized. But if we're talking normal 35mm those are nowhere near as expensive as 6k-8k.

Consumer level would be extremely expensive. An 8k physical disc of lets say Avatar 2 would probably cost $50 a movie. Maybe $60.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
haha well you're taking something very specific. An IMAX camera is expensive because it's huge and very specialized. But if we're talking normal 35mm those are nowhere near as expensive as 6k-8k.

Consumer level would be extremely expensive. An 8k physical disc of lets say Avatar 2 would probably cost $50 a movie. Maybe $60.
I'm talking about something like the Arriflex-765 65 mm analog camera used to shoot "No Time to Die" and "Tenet". This camera is over $125K + lenses.

The Arriflex-235 35mm analog camera (used to shoot Edge of Tomorrow, Zack Snyder's Justice League (2021), Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End (2007), Live Free or Die Hard (2007), Munich (2005), Body of Lies (2008), Unstoppable (2010), A Quiet Place) retails $50,000 + lenses.

The point is, 8K digital cameras are NOT too expensive for movie studios to shoot when compared to the Arriflex-235 35mm analog camera.

But, yes, 8K is too expensive for consumers.
 
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L

lc6

Junior Audioholic
ICYMI, news on Auro:
3D sound specialist Auro Technologies is insolvent
"Auro-3D was launched on the market before Dolby Atmos, but was only supported by Denon and Marantz for a long time on the part of AV receiver manufacturers. Only with the current generation of devices did Yamaha get into the Auro-3D boat. Decoders for Dolby Atmos and later DTS:X, on the other hand, were in the receivers of all major manufacturers right from the start."
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
ICYMI, news on Auro:
3D sound specialist Auro Technologies is insolvent
"Auro-3D was launched on the market before Dolby Atmos, but was only supported by Denon and Marantz for a long time on the part of AV receiver manufacturers. Only with the current generation of devices did Yamaha get into the Auro-3D boat. Decoders for Dolby Atmos and later DTS:X, on the other hand, were in the receivers of all major manufacturers right from the start."
I am surprised Auro3D lasted this long since there are no Auro3D movie contents released in the USA.

I was surprised Yamaha added Auro3D to the A6 and A8.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
I am surprised Auro3D lasted this long since there are no Auro3D movie contents released in the USA.

I was surprised Yamaha added Auro3D to the A6 and A8.
All I know is, I'm very happy with the performance of my RX-A4A. But it's seems that some of the guy's that have the use of Auro 3D like it a lot for music use also.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
All I know is, I'm very happy with the performance of my RX-A4A. But it's seems that some of the guy's that have the use of Auro 3D like it a lot for music use also.
True. Doesn’t hurt to have extra features.

But I wonder what happens to Auro3D going forward since they are going Bankrupt?

Will all companies remove Auro3D from the features with the next generation of AVR like RX-A6B/A8B?
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
True. Doesn’t hurt to have extra features.

But I wonder what happens to Auro3D going forward since they are going Bankrupt?

Will all companies remove Auro3D from the features with the next generation of AVR like RX-A6B/A8B?
Didn't know they where in a Bankruptcy. Think maybe someone will pick Auro 3D up? Kinda like Onkyo got picked up by another company.
 
M

Movie2099

Audioholic General
True. Doesn’t hurt to have extra features.

But I wonder what happens to Auro3D going forward since they are going Bankrupt?

Will all companies remove Auro3D from the features with the next generation of AVR like RX-A6B/A8B?
Shoot, I pegged Auro3D dead years ago. Can't compete against the likes of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

Now manufacturers are pushing the IMAX stuff. Not sure how that's all going to work out in the future. I don't see myself using it even if I had it.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Shoot, I pegged Auro3D dead years ago. Can't compete against the likes of Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

Now manufacturers are pushing the IMAX stuff. Not sure how that's all going to work out in the future. I don't see myself using it even if I had it.
Well, like DTS, IMAX will survive because there are DTS & IMAX CONTENTS in the USA.

Auro3D NEVER had any contents in the USA. So yeah, you and I and many others were correct when we said that Auro3D was DEAD long ago. :D
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Didn't know they where in a Bankruptcy. Think maybe someone will pick Auro 3D up? Kinda like Onkyo got picked up by another company.
Possible. But extremely risky when there have never been any Auro3D contents in the USA.

I think you would have to buy Auro3D contents from Europe or Asia.
 
AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
Now manufacturers are pushing the IMAX stuff. Not sure how that's all going to work out in the future. I don't see myself using it even if I had it.
IMAX Enhanced is nice as it reduces black area on TVs and image is taller. It seems to me that IMAX can only work on a massive scale if film studios start producing a LOT more movies in that format.
 
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M

Movie2099

Audioholic General
It seems to me that IMAX can only work on a massive scale is film studios start producing a LOT more movies in that format and market it as a picture with increased ratio on display than traditional 16:9.
It's just really annoying that studios pay big money to film IMAX but then won't put the IMAX shots on their physical releases. Except for Nolan movies. Reason why I love his movies. He's a purist. And studios will bend over backwards for him. I'm glad he will never make a movie for Disney. Disney has destroyed the physical media industry and what makes it worse is they own the Fox Movie library.....ugh.......
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
It's just really annoying that studios pay big money to film IMAX but then won't put the IMAX shots on their physical releases. Except for Nolan movies. Reason why I love his movies. He's a purist. And studios will bend over backwards for him. I'm glad he will never make a movie for Disney. Disney has destroyed the physical media industry and what makes it worse is they own the Fox Movie library.....ugh.......
I think the Zack Snyder Justice League IMAX version is 100% IMAX 1.43:1 on the BD. I like that.

It's funny though. We started out with 1.33:1. Then went to 1.85:1. Then 2.39:1. And then IMAX brings it back to 1.90:1 and 1.43:1. :D

Why don't people just shoot everything using 8K 1.9:1 ratio and call it a day? :D
 
M

Movie2099

Audioholic General
I think the Zack Snyder Justice League IMAX version is 100% IMAX 1.43:1 on the BD. I like that.

It's funny though. We started out with 1.33:1. Then went to 1.85:1. Then 2.39:1. And then IMAX brings it back to 1.90:1 and 1.43:1. :D

Why don't people just shoot everything using 8K 1.9:1 ratio and call it a day? :D
Getting the Snyder cut took years and fan outrage. That will not be the standard. But you’d think WB would wake up and see it was successful and do similar things in the future.

Aquaman was shot in all Imax as well and that was a success. So one studio kind of embraces imax in physical while others, specially Disney disregards it. I have heard that Disney does that to lure more people to the theater.
 
Z

zepaholic

Audioholic
Need to check with some of the experts here before I ship this off for repair (Yamaha's dime)
So I just added FPS and I can't get a test tone sound from FPR and YPAO keeps giving me an error message ERROR 3 can't detect speaker. If I play all channel stereo or anything else I get sound from FPR. If I switch FPR and FPL then the FPL is not getting test tone. So any ideas before I ship this off. Yamaha Tech had no idea and never heard of this happening before. They think it could be a bad chip. And as we all know it's no easy task to disconnect everything and be without it.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Need to check with some of the experts here before I ship this off for repair (Yamaha's dime)
So I just added FPS and I can't get a test tone sound from FPR and YPAO keeps giving me an error message ERROR 3 can't detect speaker. If I play all channel stereo or anything else I get sound from FPR. If I switch FPR and FPL then the FPL is not getting test tone. So any ideas before I ship this off. Yamaha Tech had no idea and never heard of this happening before. They think it could be a bad chip. And as we all know it's no easy task to disconnect everything and be without it.
What Yamaha model you have? Have you tried a factory reset.
 
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