Yamaha AVENTAGE 2021 AV Receivers Bulk Up on Power and 8K Features

AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
This sounds more like a static charge buildup issue, which affected input ports, esp. HDMI.
Interesting, as @Replicant 7 mentioned that all HDMI inputs were lost. I wonder whether usb audio and analog inputs would still continue to work or static charge build-up fools entire board. Can we isolate the issue to HDMI inputs only? @Replicant 7, did you have any analog/usb audio inputs connected to AVR at that time or just HDMI?

Similar things can happen on PCs if left turned on for days. Some apps, commands or connections may start to glitch a bit. Simple restart usually restores normal functioning, or unplugging and plugging back cable to restore connection handshake.

Clearly, there's enough power in standby mode to keep the AVR in a wonky state once it enters that state. That is why they need to be unplugged. If it were static buildup, unplugging the AVR would not clear the static charge since there is no path to ground. Its not a static buildup.
Also true, if there was no ground loop before the incident. @Replicant 7, did you ground your AVR before the issue emerged?

My 8 year old Yamaha has never experienced total lost of audio, so I have not done hard power cycle. But I needed to unplug HDMI cables and plug them back in on rare ocassions for devices to be re-recognised. AVR is set to go to stand-by every day 15 minutes after the last connected device is off.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Interesting, as @Replicant 7 mentioned that all HDMI inputs were lost. I wonder whether usb audio and analog inputs would still continue to work or static charge build-up fools entire board. Can we isolate the issue to HDMI inputs only? @Replicant 7, did you have any analog/usb audio inputs connected to AVR at that time or just HDMI?

Similar things can happen on PCs if left turned on for days. Some apps, commands or connections may start to glitch a bit. Simple restart usually restores normal functioning, or unplugging and plugging back cable to restore connection handshake.


Also true, if there was no ground loop before the incident. @Replicant 7, did you ground your AVR before the issue emerged?

My 8 year old Yamaha has never experienced total lost of audio, so I have not done hard power cycle. But I needed to unplug HDMI cables and plug them back in on rare ocassions for devices to be re-recognised. AVR is set to go to stand-by every day 15 minutes after the last connected device is off.
Turntable, CD player analog L/R out, plus optical and coaxial out. 3 HDMI sources, TV, 4K player, PS4. Ethernet cable on all. Before the AVR went out with no sound output, I was watching a Netflix move, about halfway through sound started acting sporadically. So switched over to OTA TV, that is ARC back to AVR. About 15 minutes into what I was watching, AVR front display showed (decoder off) sound dropped out completely. TV speaker came on. So naturally I checked the source, first thing I did. Change channel's still nothing. Turn everything off, waited about a minute turned everything back on still no sound from AVR. That's when I played a music CD nothing, than a 4K movie nothing, than a album nothing. Went into settings of AVR did a (All Initialization) wish I hadn't. Got nothing. That's when I pulled the plug for a few minutes. Turned AVR back on played a CD got sound, played a 4K movie got sound. Went into tv setting, of course still no ARC back to AVR, went into audio out settings, that's when I saw ARC, was set to TV speaker. You gotta cursor down to click on ARC. Got nothing, changed out the batteries in the remote still nothing. Did two more hard tv resets. Still no ARC, still couldn't move to ARC to set. About that time I was cursing Chinese junk!!:mad: Found a optical cable ran that to TV optical output than back to AVR and Walla! Had audio return from TV to AVR. Here's the kicker, there's a power button at the bottom of the TV. Found on Hisense website, you gotta unplug TV which by the way I did before I did those factory resets. You gotta have the tv unplugged, than hold the power button in for 60 seconds. Plug power in, turned tv on and it goes through like you got it out the box. Still couldn't complete signing into the Google account assigned to the TV for what ever reason. Well, I had skipped that went straight to audio output in settings on the TV and it was already on ARC, so I lefted it on ARC in settings, finish dialing in everything on the TV except the account login did that this morning everything's good now hopefully, them dam Russians :mad: won't mess with me again!! They hacking everybody around the world.;) I played around with switching in Audio Output, going between TV Speaker and ARC just to see if it would change with the TV remote, did that like 10 times. All good. So yeah @AVR Enthu, I believe you may be right CEC issue from jump. But here's my personal thought, who or what ever changed up the setting on Audio Output to TV Speaker, and locked it so that setting couldn't be changed? Dam Russians :mad: I tell ya! Rewski ba$tards! ;)
 
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AVR Enthu

AVR Enthu

Full Audioholic
About that time I was cursing Chinese junk!!
Yamaha's assembly line is in Malaysia :p
Dam Russians
Russians use primitive brute force. They are not as sophisticated to play with buggy CEC/ARC from California. ;)

We can rule out the quality of cables for now, as everything worked before. Just for the records, do you use certified, good quality cables?

Your TV has ARC and not eARC, right? I saw "ARC" on that photo. If so, we might be closer to understanding. The problem was triggered by gradually losing audio over ARC, which led to decoder being shut down. It was a chain reaction and AVR triggered decoder shut down as a protective mechanism. That is actually good on the AVR's part, as its circuitry was prevented from being burnt/damaged.

When the audio digital signal (in this case in ARC channel) is abnormal, the protection circuit outputs a disable signal to turn off or mute the decoder and/or audio amplifier, or the protection circuit outputs a logic signal to notify the processor, so that the processor outputs the disable signal to turn off or mute the decoder and/or audio amplifier. This explains why all inputs were muted. Has @gene discussed this with engineers on Audioholics?

This probably leads us to problem with CEC bus and its signalling. The discovery od ARC channel is managed by CEC (eARC got rid off this dependency and introducted two separate chips on either side of eARC data channel). CEC was not installed by all vendors in any standardized way, it has dozens of trade names, and this contributes to inconsistent discovery of the audio capabilities of AVR, TV, soundbar, etc. I suspect some electrical issues in CEC probing ARC during content flow.

CEC-ARC combo could be buggy and lead to audio drop out from TV and, in worst cases like yours, to switching AVR's decoder off temporarily. We need electrical engineer who knows CEC inside out to tell us why.

Plus, more generally, CEC could be disrupted by local power outages or changes in current flow in households. Did this happen in your area on the day and do you have surge protection on your AV gear?

And, you might need a TV with eARC :cool:
 
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Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Yamaha's assembly line is in Malaysia :p

Russians use primitive brute force. They are not as sophisticated to play with buggy CEC/ARC from California. ;)

We can rule out the quality of cables for now, as everything worked before. Just for the records, do you use certified, good quality cables?

Your TV has ARC and not eARC, right? I saw "ARC" on that photo. If so, we might be closer to understanding. The problem was triggered by gradually losing audio over ARC, which led to decoder being shut down. It was a chain reaction and AVR triggered decoder shut down as a protective mechanism. That is actually good on the AVR's part, as its circuitry was prevented from being burnt/damaged.

When the audio digital signal (in this case in ARC channel) is abnormal, the protection circuit outputs a disable signal to turn off or mute the decoder and/or audio amplifier, or the protection circuit outputs a logic signal to notify the processor, so that the processor outputs the disable signal to turn off or mute the decoder and/or audio amplifier.

This probably leads us to problem with CEC bus and its signalling. The discovery od ARC channel is managed by CEC (eARC got rid off this dependency and introducted two separate chips on either side of eARC data channel). CEC was not installed by all vendors in any standardized way, it has dozens of trade names, and this contributes to inconsistent discovery of the audio capabilities of AVR, TV, soundbar, etc. I suspect some electrical issues in CEC probing ARC during content flow.

CEC-ARC combo could be buggy and lead to audio drop out from TV and, in worst cases like yours, to switching AVR's decoder off temporarily. We need electrical engineer who knows CEC inside out to tell us why.

Plus, more generally, CEC could be disrupted by local power outages or changes in current flow in households. Did this happen in your area on teh day and do you have surge protection on your AV gear?

And, you might need a TV with eARC :cool:
No eARC, but I knew that going with this cheap tv. It's really a fillin till I get the Sony 65 Master Series A90J, or X90J. That'll depend on what I gotta pay out for RBH tower speakers. Hopefully Andrew will break open a new loaf of bread and throw some crumbs my way and cut me a a deal I can't refuse. But back to ARC, CEC. That makes sense, (decoder off) because I had No sound even using analog source TT. But your right when the sound started acting sporadically when I was streaming that Netflix movie was making some weird noises, dropping in and out, high pitch screeching noises, think like when you fast forward a cassette deck that high pitch screeching. But the AVR didn't shut down till after I switched sources started watching regular TV OTA over the air. But again, to get audio back to AVR is only two ways, ARC, HDMI or the optical cable out from TV to the AVR. Thanks for responding. Sure you know, but Hisense 4K is a China product. One more thing I don't believe Yamaha has unlocked eARC yet alone with those HDMI 2.1. So I knew going in that's why I opted for this TV, knowing it would be a bedroom TV before years end.

By the way when I pickup this TV last year it wasn't out that long a few months I believe. Well I did more research on Hisense 4K TV'S and yep they are plagued with ARC CEC issues. Owners of this brand are reporting a Lot of bugs throughout all the models now. BestBuys website is full of not happy owners. That's where I got this Hisense 4K from about 6 months ago. Yeah all certified cables, 48gbs
 
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VASKION

VASKION

Junior Audioholic
Interesting, as @Replicant 7 mentioned that all HDMI inputs were lost. I wonder whether usb audio and analog inputs would still continue to work or static charge build-up fools entire board. Can we isolate the issue to HDMI inputs only? @Replicant 7, did you have any analog/usb audio inputs connected to AVR at that time or just HDMI?

Similar things can happen on PCs if left turned on for days. Some apps, commands or connections may start to glitch a bit. Simple restart usually restores normal functioning, or unplugging and plugging back cable to restore connection handshake.
Well, when this happened to me I was listening to music from NAS the previous day. Then on the next one when I powered the unit and tried to used it again with the NAS for music but no sound was coming out from it. I tried turning on the TV, radio, FM - no sound at all. It was completely stuck. So I don't think it is an HDMI issue.

Sometimes I don't have sound only from the TV (eARC). This is fixed by power off and then back on of the AVR. This though sounds like some HDMI issue.

But the other one (when I have to disconnect the AVR from power to get sound) sounds more serious to me... Seems more like some general problem with some of the boards inside the unit since there is no sound coming from any input. The latest firmware make things a little better as I don't experience these issues that often as before. I can only hope it gets solved completely with some next firmware update...
 
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Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Well, when this happened to me I was listening to music from NAS the previous day. Then on the next one when I powered the unit and tried to used it again with the NAS for music but no sound so coming out from it. I tried turning on the TV, radio, FM - no sound at all. It was completely stuck. So I don't think it is an HDMI issue.

Sometimes I don't have sound only from the TV (eARC). This is fixed by power off and then back on of the AVR. This though sounds like some HDMI issue.

But the other one (when I have to disconnect the AVR from power to get sound) sounds more serious to me... Seems more like some general problem with some of the boards inside the unit since there is no sound coming from any input. The latest firmware make things a little better as I don't experience these issues that often as before. I can only hope it gets solved completely with some next firmware update...
I've had HDMI hand shake issues with every AVR I've owned. For close to 6 months my RX-A4A had perform flawlessly, until 2 days ago, dam da bad luck. Got up at 4:30 this morning fired up my setup all is going good so far.
 
OldAndSlowDev

OldAndSlowDev

Full Audioholic
I've had HDMI hand shake issues with every AVR I've owned. For close to 6 months my RX-A4A had perform flawlessly, until 2 days ago, dam da bad luck. Got up at 4:30 this morning fired up my setup all is going good so far.
Waking up so early and then first thing you do is checking your setup : I would totally do the same :D
I can imagine how boring it is when something that was perfectly working start to be less consistent. I have an issue since I subscribed to YouTube premium : when starting some music using Siri on my AppleTV, youtube app decides by itself that actually I don't want to listen to music but want to watch the video I was watching. I have to ask Siri multiple time to "play some jazz" until YouTube app gives up. It makes me mad. Paying for a premium but having something that works worse...

I hope with all the time Yamaha to get an improved hdmi firmware it will be flawless... Can't wait for 2024 to get the 120Hz VRR
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Waking up so early and then first thing you do is checking your setup : I would totally do the same :D
I can imagine how boring it is when something that was perfectly working start to be less consistent. I have an issue since I subscribed to YouTube premium : when starting some music using Siri on my AppleTV, youtube app decides by itself that actually I don't want to listen to music but want to watch the video I was watching. I have to ask Siri multiple time to "play some jazz" until YouTube app gives up. It makes me mad. Paying for a premium but having something that works worse...

I hope with all the time Yamaha to get an improved hdmi firmware it will be flawless... Can't wait for 2024 to get the 120Hz VRR
Yeah, wasn't happy at all. I had a flashback to 2012 when both Onkyo THX-NR818 AVR's crapped out almost two weeks apart. About a year before that my H/K 3600 AVR crapped out. Gets better, 2014 another Onkyo THX-NR705 if I remember right about the model number crapped out also. A Samung plasma 51" tv and two Samsung 3D blu-ray player's 2012. Now if this AVR crashes completely like the others did. I'll be done with HT, and go with just a 4K player and a good sound bar setup. Lost a ton of money in the past on audio/video gear. I'm not gonna keep feeding the machine just for the sake of throwing good money away. Or just a two channel integrated. Should mention two Polk Pro subs also, amps crapped out.

Well after rethinking, ummm Nooo! Can't stop now! I'm deep down the rabbit hole! Plus being retired I'd go insane without a setup. Oh the pain.
 
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3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Well, when this happened to me I was listening to music from NAS the previous day. Then on the next one when I powered the unit and tried to used it again with the NAS for music but no sound was coming out from it. I tried turning on the TV, radio, FM - no sound at all. It was completely stuck. So I don't think it is an HDMI issue.

Sometimes I don't have sound only from the TV (eARC). This is fixed by power off and then back on of the AVR. This though sounds like some HDMI issue.

But the other one (when I have to disconnect the AVR from power to get sound) sounds more serious to me... Seems more like some general problem with some of the boards inside the unit since there is no sound coming from any input. The latest firmware make things a little better as I don't experience these issues that often as before. I can only hope it gets solved completely with some next firmware update...
Turning off an AVR via the remote does not remove power from all of the circuitry. If it did, good luck turning it back on with the remote. A power off simply puts the AVR in standby mode which still powers some of the components inside. Thats why AVR manufacturers always leave it in the instructions to unplug the device, remove it from power. Theres enough power to keep the brains of the device in a wonky state once it reaches that state. These AVRs are computers with amplifiers in them having far greater processing power than NASA's computer during the Apollo missions.
 
A

Am_P

Full Audioholic
Hi guys, I just started playing around with the zone 2 settings on my 3070. Do the receivers not give access to the primary GUI interface on a tv when the main zone's off and only zone 2/3 etc are on?
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
Hi guys, I just started playing around with the zone 2 settings on my 3070. Do the receivers not give access to the primary GUI interface on a tv when the main zone's off and only zone 2/3 etc are on?
I dont believe so. You need to consult the owners manual.
 
Replicant 7

Replicant 7

Audioholic Samurai
Hi guys, I just started playing around with the zone 2 settings on my 3070. Do the receivers not give access to the primary GUI interface on a tv when the main zone's off and only zone 2/3 etc are on?
Maybe get with @little wing he has Yamaha's A2070 or the A3060 can't remember. I have the RX-A4A and haved owned the A1080 but I've never used the zones on them so I got no experience with using zones.
 
little wing

little wing

Audioholic General
I have the RX-A3060, and currently using just Zone 1. So I have amps and zones sitting idle on my machine.
 
A

Am_P

Full Audioholic
I dont believe so. You need to consult the owners manual.
I have a couple of stereo speakers set up in my back deck on zone 2. I have gotten as far as streaming Chromecast to my mini deck tv by configuring HDMI out 2 for zone 2. I get the Chromecast output on my deck tv without any issues. But, there was no access to the the primary GUI on this output (I would have thought that this would be a default access for any zone). Manual doesn't appear to have anything else about this....Oh well, can't have everything maybe. It would be nice if the receiver made me a martini though. :cool:
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
I have a couple of stereo speakers set up in my back deck on zone 2. I have gotten as far as streaming Chromecast to my mini deck tv by configuring HDMI out 2 for zone 2. I get the Chromecast output on my deck tv without any issues. But, there was no access to the the primary GUI on this output (I would have thought that this would be a default access for any zone). Manual doesn't appear to have anything else about this....Oh well, can't have everything maybe. It would be nice if the receiver made me a martini though. :cool:
Here's what it says for my RX-A3060....It doesnt mention anything about the on screen display. Hunted for that term and nothing showed up that indicates that would display the onscreen in any other zone

zones.JPG


This is how I used my zone2 and zone3 out from an audio perspective.

IMG_6450.jpg


I'm recording this album simultaneously on both decks.. The top deck is recording it via zone3 with dbxII and chrome tape for home use only and the bottom deck is recording via zone2 on a normal cassette for walkman use.
 
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VASKION

VASKION

Junior Audioholic
Turning off an AVR via the remote does not remove power from all of the circuitry. If it did, good luck turning it back on with the remote. A power off simply puts the AVR in standby mode which still powers some of the components inside. Thats why AVR manufacturers always leave it in the instructions to unplug the device, remove it from power. Theres enough power to keep the brains of the device in a wonky state once it reaches that state. These AVRs are computers with amplifiers in them having far greater processing power than NASA's computer during the Apollo missions.
Totally agree. I didn't say that turning it off from the remote will actually really turn off the unit. I never ever expected it actually. I just explained that this sometimes fixes the HDMI issue I have with the TV - just as a suggestion to try out this one first before leaving the couch cursing to take some more drastic measures for the more serious issue :D
 
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