x4300h need amp?

[PENG]

The same (accounting for things like sensitivity, distance, etc.), given that any given channel, including the surround channels, can be fed anything up to 0dBFS. How much any given channel is utilized throughout a film makes no difference in that respect.

It may make a difference for someone who is considering adding a 2,3,5 or 7 channel external amp because a good mid range AVR typically can output up to 50% more into 2 channels, for a short duration. Otherwise, I agree, it makes no different.

 

[2channel lover]

I would slightly disagree with the Outlaw amps being good options. They will certainly help, especially in the longevity of the AVR, but otherwise marginal gain only. He needs the Monlith's 200 WPC to really make a noticeable difference.

They're not double the output of the AVR's amps, so you're probably right in a performance situation.

My HT space is not that huge and I'm powering my surrounds with an Emo X-A500...I haven't encountered any movies or music that would make me want to upgrade, but the Monolith7 refurbed, even regular retail is attractive to me.

 

[yepimonfire]

My goal is to have the most accurate sound reproduction. If that means I have to sacrifice dynamics to achieve this , I would.

I don't think you'd have to sacrifice either, outside of budget constraints.

Accounting for differences in sensitivity, distance, etc., yes. At full reference level, any channel (aside from LFE which is boosted 10dB) is expected to be able to produce a peak of 105dB at the MLP. Whether or not any given soundtrack makes use of that headroom is another story.



Depends on whether or not you figure the AVR can drive the remaining channels adequately. Receivers that have preouts in the first place are generally respectable, and taking the L/C/R load off is obviously still going to help a great deal for those moments when multiple channels peak simultaneously.

Yup. the biggest issue with AVRs is limited available current from the PSU. The voltage rails of a 100w amp may be capable of swinging 28Vrms, but to do so across all 7 channels at once requires about 24 amps. Not gonna happen outside of very short peaks. only having the receiver handle 3 channels or what not reduces this requirement to about 10 amps, which is easy for a decent receiver.

Unfortunately, past a certain point we are also limited by the available power from the outlet. A 15A circuit is capable of 110v and 12A continuous, it can exceed this for brief spikes however. This means the max you could draw from a 12A circuit is 1320 watts continuously. Keep in mind A/B amplifiers are only about 70% efficient, so that cuts you down to about 900w. With the power consumption of the display, subwoofer, and BDP etc, you're pretty much limited to 100wpc and only on peaks on a single 12a circuit.

A display might consume 90w, BDP 10w, sub about 200w-500w, add in you 900w for your 7 channels, and we're now at ~1300-1500w. Amplifiers generally have reserves to handle the peaks so you won't blow a breaker from a quick burst of max output, and your 15A circuit can handle about 20A IIRC for a few seconds.

Ever seen the lights dim during a very loud passage in a movie? A few months back I was watching The Jungle Book (new non animated version), and had the volume cranked to about -5dB. When Louie's castle started crashing down, I had a short term mini brownout throughout my house, wife was in the kitchen in came out and yelled at me to turn it down because I was making the lights flicker.

 

[yepimonfire]

I don't think anyone said that.

I think the Center channel is unequivocally salient.

My center speaker is identical to my front L/R and surround speakers.

The only thing we are debating is whether the center has the most demand for POWER or at least the same as the front L/R.

As PENG showed, it depends on the movie.

But thanks to your input (I do appreciate it), I agree that the Center deserves the same respect as the front L/R in terms of power requirement.

If anyone is getting an external amp, get at least a 3Ch amp for the front 3 speakers.

Agreed. Even if all 5/7 channels might be driven equally at some points, 75% of people have their surrounds closer then the fronts, which reduces the power requirements, sometimes as much as by half. I do think all channels deserve the same respect. Don't skimp on the surrounds either, and definitely don't skimp on the center. I always do a facepalm when I see someone with huge powerful tower speakers and a small center and tiny "satellite" surrounds. I get that budget constraints limit the amount of total money spent on the speakers, but I'd rather see someone split equal amounts of money into the LCR setup, and as much as possible into the surrounds, than I would 2/3rds into the left and right, while treating all other channels as "accessories".

 

[yepimonfire]

They're not double the output of the AVR's amps, so you're probably right in a performance situation.

My HT space is not that huge and I'm powering my surrounds with an Emo X-A500...I haven't encountered any movies or music that would make me want to upgrade, but the Monolith7 refurbed, even regular retail is attractive to me.

I'd just go with pro amps. Much more bang for your buck, and the pro audio industry can't get away with fudging specs the same way consumer grade stuff does. In addition, many pro amps can handle very difficult loads, such as 2 ohm or even 1 ohm speakers, and horrid phase angles without even breaking a sweat.

Behringer iNuke amps also offer a DSP that gives similar functionality to a minidsp as well. Really can't go wrong with them.

 

[2channel lover]

I'd just go with pro amps. Much more bang for your buck, and the pro audio industry can't get away with fudging specs the same way consumer grade stuff does. In addition, many pro amps can handle very difficult loads, such as 2 ohm or even 1 ohm speakers, and horrid phase angles without even breaking a sweat.

Behringer iNuke amps also offer a DSP that gives similar functionality to a minidsp as well. Really can't go wrong with them.

I don't have any experience with pro amps personally, but from what I've seen and read from owners...they are definitely a cost effective, high performance option. If my brother in law ever decides to finish out his basement theater room, we've talked about using Crown amps to supplement the AVR, or power all the channels.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't have any experience with pro amps personally, but from what I've seen and read from owners...they are definitely a cost effective, high performance option. If my brother in law ever decides to finish out his basement theater room, we've talked about using Crown amps to supplement the AVR, or power all the channels.

The Crown amps definitely changed the power game IMO.

Professional 200WPC x 2Ch amp for about $200. Game changer.

 

[panteragstk]

The Crown amps definitely changed the power game IMO.

Professional 200WPC x 2Ch amp for about $200. Game changer.

I love my Crown amp. Runs very cool and for ~$250 used for 1500w amp (300w 2ch 8ohm) it was a steal.

The new version is black so a stack of those in a rack would look very nice. I'm just using my Crown for my subs and the 4300h as the main amp for my speakers. I have a small room and fairly efficient speakers so I have no issue when it comes to power.

If I were in the OP's position I would do pro amps if the wallet allows (and has room for them) just because they are somewhat cheap and the market for used amps is huge, so if he were to ever sell them they would hold their value.

As for a non pro amp the Monolith amps look to be as good as you can do. Especially considering ATI built them.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I love my Crown amp. Runs very cool and for ~$250 used for 1500w amp (300w 2ch 8ohm) it was a steal.

That is a great deal for a XLS1500. Right now you could get a XLi1500 (300W/8ohm) for $250 used from Amazon. But I think the XLS is better.

 

[2channel lover]

Agreed. Even if all 5/7 channels might be driven equally at some points, 75% of people have their surrounds closer then the fronts, which reduces the power requirements, sometimes as much as by half. I do think all channels deserve the same respect. Don't skimp on the surrounds either, and definitely don't skimp on the center. I always do a facepalm when I see someone with huge powerful tower speakers and a small center and tiny "satellite" surrounds. I get that budget constraints limit the amount of total money spent on the speakers, but I'd rather see someone split equal amounts of money into the LCR setup, and as much as possible into the surrounds, than I would 2/3rds into the left and right, while treating all other channels as "accessories".

Good point...I've never had a proper CC...HT has never been a big past time for me, but I made sure on this rebuild to give more attention to it...in a few weeks I'll find out if it was worth it...lol...I'm sure it will be.

But you bring up another point I will be doing some fact finding...the rears...they're not satellites, but the Rb5i is a lower cost book shelf speaker...solid in my opinion, but they are a far cry from the quality of the LCR Salks.

When the Salks get here I plan on moving the B&Ws to the rear in place of the RBH book shelf just for sh@ts & giggles to see if there is any difference.

 

[Pogre]

I bought a Monolith 7 and haven't looked back. There was no major improvement in sq, but it's a nice feeling to have all that power on tap and speakers capable of handling it. My stuff doesn't get scary hot anymore and I feel like my system is very stable now, even at ridiculous volumes.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I bought a Monolith 7 and haven't looked back. There was no major improvement in sq, but it's a nice feeling to have all that power on tap and speakers capable of handling it. My stuff doesn't get scary hot anymore and I feel like my system is very stable now, even at ridiculous volumes.

All you need is love and your 200WPC ATI-built amp.

 

[PENG]

I bought a Monolith 7 and haven't looked back. There was no major improvement in sq, but it's a nice feeling to have all that power on tap and speakers capable of handling it. My stuff doesn't get scary hot anymore and I feel like my system is very stable now, even at ridiculous volumes.

And you don't have to worry about clipping during those 20 dB peaks any more even when at ref level, whether such clipping were audible or not.