Will these over power my mains?

S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
I have a pair of PSB Image T6 with Marantz SR 7005 receiver.

I got a Crown XLS 2002 for about $300. I intend to power my mains with this - pre out from receiver. I'm wondering if this be too much power for my mains?

The speakers have recommended input power upto 200W with clipping less than 10% (speaker impedence as rated by manufacturer 4 ohm, if that means anything) and the amp 650W @4ohm dual channel.

I intend to keep the dial at 12 O clock, setup audyssey and use the remote. I do tend to play it pretty loud often.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I intend to keep the dial at 12 O clock, setup audyssey and use the remote. I do tend to play it pretty loud often.
What dial? The AV7005's volume don't go by 'O Clock'. The XLS 2002 obviously can cause damage to the T6, but before that happens, you should be able to hear distortions.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Judicious use of the master volume control on the Marantz should work well enough along with a little common sense; parties with lots of alcohol---watch out :)

@PENG I assume he means the gain/attentuation dials on the Crown being set at "noon". Not sure how he arrived at that being an ideal position for use with the Marantz.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
Note that the XLS2002 amplifier has selectable input sensitivity, U may need to choose the 0.775 mode..
As the Marantz AVRs seem to have weaker pre-out voltage output capability..

Just my $0.02... ;)
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
@PENG I assume he means the gain/attentuation dials on the Crown being set at "noon". Not sure how he arrived at that being an ideal position for use with the Marantz.
That's right. The dial on the Crown. My intention is to fix it at one position and leave it. Just use the remote to control the volume.
So What would be the recommended position of the dial on Crown?

Note that the XLS2002 amplifier has selectable input sensitivity, U may need to choose the 0.775 mode..
As the Marantz AVRs seem to have weaker pre-out voltage output capability..
Thanks for that. This was my next question. Haven't connected yet cos of this. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I don't think the Marantz' are as famous for low output on pre-outs as Yamaha myself, but I'd start at the 1.4V sensitivity setting. I set the levels on my Crowns so I can just achieve clipping of the amp, but I have gen 1s so no sensitivity setting in my case. You don't want to constantly change level on the amp, that's what the volume control on your Marantz is for once you set it up...
 
S

Sylar

Full Audioholic
The XLS 2002 obviously can cause damage to the T6, but before that happens, you should be able to hear distortions.
So is distortions the only way for me to tell if i could possibly damage the mains? Is there anything else I can look out for or be wary of?
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Judicious use of the master volume control on the Marantz should work well enough along with a little common sense; parties with lots of alcohol---watch out :)

@PENG I assume he means the gain/attentuation dials on the Crown being set at "noon". Not sure how he arrived at that being an ideal position for use with the Marantz.
Thanks, actually I thought that might be what he meant but didn't want to assume. On a power amp those things are typically referred to, correctly, as gain controls. I would leave them at maximum.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Note that the XLS2002 amplifier has selectable input sensitivity, U may need to choose the 0.775 mode..
As the Marantz AVRs seem to have weaker pre-out voltage output capability..

Just my $0.02... ;)
I don't think so, the rated output of 1V (typical for Yamaha) and 1.2V (typical for D&M) are most likely just "nominal" numbers, and the units are not really limited to such relatively low voltages. Gene's bench tests proved that time and again. It is better to try the default 1.4V sensitivity setting first and only switch to the high setting if found necessary.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Thanks, actually I thought they might be what he meant but didn't want to assume. On a power amp those things are typically referred to, correctly, as gain controls. I would leave them at maximum.
I've been told the Crowns aren't true gain controls by someone around here, altho the Crown manual calls 'em gain/level controls.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
So is distortions the only way for me to tell if i could possibly damage the mains? Is there anything else I can look out for or be wary of?
If you provide your room dimensions and sitting distance, and if you have a suitable spl meter such as the one linked below:

https://reverb.com/ca/item/6502542-radio-shack-digital-sound-level-meter-model-33-2055?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjtG_7Y3T1wIV1bbACh2dyAd3EAYYASABEgJJavD_BwE&pla=1

then we can give you some ideas. You can also take voltage and current readings at the "loudest" level you listen to. Unless you have the proper meter to use and and know what you are doing, it is better you just tell us your room dimensions, sitting distance and take some spl readings.

Online calculators such as this one may also give you a good prediction. Basically PSB recommended 20-200W, so if the average power is below 15-20W, with program dynamic peaks of 200-400 W, you should be safe.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I've been told the Crowns aren't true gain controls by someone around here, altho the Crown manual calls 'em gain/level controls.
So you mean they are really "volume" dials? I am sure you know better because you own some and I have never owned one such amp. I do have power amps that have gain control knobs.
 
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lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
So you mean they are really "volume" dials? I am sure you know better because you own some and I have never own one such amp. I do have power amps that have gain control knobs.
You're the EE :) I'm not all that clear on the point in this case, nor do I remember who said it, but I don't need to run my "gains" full on the Crowns so far either in order to achieve clipping levels.
 
M Code

M Code

Audioholic General
No harm in trying either the 0.775V or 1.4V RMS with the Crown amplifier. When using the 0.775V selection the Master volume on the marantz will increase sooner than the 1.4V selection. But also it depends what input source U use more frequently and @ what SPL level do U play the system for normal listening levels. For example, the 7005 has a phono input (mm) and often when using a lower output phono cartridge one must turn the Master volume level significantly higher to reach the desired listening volume level. When this happens and the Master volume level is set quite high then negative byproducts could be audible such as preamp's noise floor.

The basic CE industry dilemma has do when U are mixing a consumer product (Marantz) with a pro-audio component (Crown), as in the consumer field typical Japanese products have low pre-out levels whereas in the pro-audio product higher pre-amp levels are more common. Thats why Crown has provided both...

Though the PSB loudspeakers are rated 6 Ohms nominal, most of the test reviews indicate they are more like 4 Ohms. Running the Crown amplifier with the 0.775V selection simply provides a higher input swing of the pre-out to the Crown. No harm in trying either...
I would suggest that U set the Crown gain controls @ about 70% rotation and then double check for volume level to make sure the Crown amplifier is not clipping. Also if U have the Crown Series 2 2002 U can monitor the front panel clipping levels by its LEDs...

Just my $0.02... :)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
You're the EE :) I'm not all that clear on the point in this case, nor do I remember who said it, but I don't need to run my "gains" full on the Crowns so far either in order to achieve clipping levels.
My understanding is that where ever you set the Gain on the Crown, the Marantz will offset it when it sets the level during the setup process. Since the Crown is designed to be used with the Gain at maximum, I would leave them there. The Marantz will set it so -15dB, 0dB, and +18dB all provide the proper amount of power delivered to your speakers.
If you don't have the Gain high enough on the amp, you run the risk of saturating the Marantz because the preamp section has to run wide open. I honestly don't think this is a realistic concern, but we know the Crown is not going to ever push its limits with those speakers.
Lets put it this way, I have used a Yamaha P7000S (700WPC @ 8ohms, 950 @ 4) to drive Pioneer BS22 (little bookshelf speakers with 4" woofers) without ever giving it any thought - just keep the volume down until you have finished setup.

The way to protect your speakers from being over driven is to Set the AVR to limit volume at 0dB (or where ever is appropriate for your listening habits). If you do it at the Crown and have that drunk/rowdy person at your party who sees the volumes at 12 O'clock and say lets crank this bad boy up....
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
My understanding is that where ever you set the Gain on the Crown, the Marantz will offset it when it sets the level during the setup process. Since the Crown is designed to be used with the Gain at maximum, I would leave them there. The Marantz will set it so -15dB, 0dB, and +18dB all provide the proper amount of power delivered to your speakers.
If you don't have the Gain high enough on the amp, you run the risk of saturating the Marantz because the preamp section has to run wide open. I honestly don't think this is a realistic concern, but we know the Crown is not going to ever push its limits with those speakers.
Lets put it this way, I have used a Yamaha P7000S (700WPC @ 8ohms, 950 @ 4) to drive Pioneer BS22 (little bookshelf speakers with 4" woofers) without ever giving it any thought - just keep the volume down until you have finished setup.

The way to protect your speakers from being over driven is to Set the AVR to limit volume at 0dB (or where ever is appropriate for your listening habits). If you do it at the Crown and have that drunk/rowdy person at your party who sees the volumes at 12 O'clock and say lets crank this bad boy up....
I suggested setting the Crown's gain/vol to maximum first because if that works well then chances are good that the left/right channel are exactly the same, or should be anyway. If you set them to 70%, that's perfectly fine but then the left/right outputs may not be exactly the same for the same input signal, i.e. the amp could be slightly out of balance between the two channels. If he runs Audyssey and always use it then it is fine too because the levels will be adjusted/matched anyway. I suspect if the sensitivity is left to the default 1.4V, after running Audyssey, everything will be in the ball park, but I could be wrong, though unlikely as I did use a AV7005 for a couple of years so I know that thing quite well.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Maybe a more clear statement is that regardless of where you set the gain on the Crown, once you run setup and the speaker levels are set, any volume setting on the marantz will be the same SPL as it was before you attached the amp.
We often get posts where people are upset because they are still having to turn up the knob with their new mega-amp. That is as it should be. The volume control is calibrated to SPL, not to % of total power available!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
My understanding is that where ever you set the Gain on the Crown, the Marantz will offset it when it sets the level during the setup process. Since the Crown is designed to be used with the Gain at maximum, I would leave them there. The Marantz will set it so -15dB, 0dB, and +18dB all provide the proper amount of power delivered to your speakers.
If you don't have the Gain high enough on the amp, you run the risk of saturating the Marantz because the preamp section has to run wide open. I honestly don't think this is a realistic concern, but we know the Crown is not going to ever push its limits with those speakers.
Lets put it this way, I have used a Yamaha P7000S (700WPC @ 8ohms, 950 @ 4) to drive Pioneer BS22 (little bookshelf speakers with 4" woofers) without ever giving it any thought - just keep the volume down until you have finished setup.

The way to protect your speakers from being over driven is to Set the AVR to limit volume at 0dB (or where ever is appropriate for your listening habits). If you do it at the Crown and have that drunk/rowdy person at your party who sees the volumes at 12 O'clock and say lets crank this bad boy up....
Sorry, I posted #18 before reading yours.:D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
The way to protect your speakers from being over driven is to Set the AVR to limit volume at 0dB (or where ever is appropriate for your listening habits). If you do it at the Crown and have that drunk/rowdy person at your party who sees the volumes at 12 O'clock and say lets crank this bad boy up....
Excellent point about the drunk/rowdy scenario.:D Also, since the PSB recommended 20-200 W and rated 200 W "program", it is reasonable to assume the T6 can withstand 400 W short term peaks without being damaged. Under such assumptions, even if the OP sits 15 meters from the speakers, he should still be able to enjoy 85 dB average, 105 dB peaks with relatively low risk of damaging the speakers. If he sits further back and listens louder than the THX standard of 85/105 dB "loud", then all bets are off.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
When I owned the Crown XLS2500, I set the gain to 100% and adjusted the Trims with the Denon. This makes the most sense to me.

Denon/Marantz also has a Volume Limit feature so you can set the volume limit to -10.0, 0.0, etc., if you are afraid some imbecile may try to kill your speakers. :D
 

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