Will an external amp boost just volume, or improve overall sound quality?

[The Numenorian]

Let's say that I am currently using a Yamaha RX-V2500.

Let's also say that I am using some Axioms in 5.1:

M60 for mains
M3ti for surrounds
VP100 center
EP350 sub

Now then, will adding an external amp at about 150 wpc/constant improve sound quality, or just volume? I am using a pretty large space, about 2200ft^3, and the 2500 can only do about 60-70 wpc/all 5 driven.

Now, if I added an amp just for the main speakers, would that make my sound lopsided? Or could I utilize the receiver's equalizing (auto and manual) to take care of any such side effects? Thanks.

*btw, awesome forum...my new favorite*

 

[Leprkon]

I added a two channel amp (ATI 1502, which is 150 wpc) to my RX-V2500, and I personally thought the entire sound got better. This may be due to there being more power available for the center, surrounds, and prescence speakers, or it might have just been my ego telling my I didn't blow an extra $ 400 for nothing.

if you run the YPAO or do a manual run with the test tones, you can balance the sound out (as long as you remember to turn the amp on before you start the test )

The system does run quite a bit cooler with the additional amp. If I had it to do all over again, I would probably go with a three-channel amp or three monoblocks for all three fronts (left, center, right) instead of just the two.

 

[The Numenorian]

thanks- another question:

would I benefit more from, functionally speaking, obtaining 5 mono amps as opposed to a single 5 channel amp (eg rotel)? Or would a stereo amp w/3 mono amps be my best option for upgradeability and other advantages of having separate amps?

 

[ht_addict]

I added a two channel amp (ATI 1502, which is 150 wpc) to my RX-V2500, and I personally thought the entire sound got better. This may be due to there being more power available for the center, surrounds, and prescence speakers, or it might have just been my ego telling my I didn't blow an extra $ 400 for nothing.

if you run the YPAO or do a manual run with the test tones, you can balance the sound out (as long as you remember to turn the amp on before you start the test )

The system does run quite a bit cooler with the additional amp. If I had it to do all over again, I would probably go with a three-channel amp or three monoblocks for all three fronts (left, center, right) instead of just the two.

It was your ego Actually it was probably your brain precieving a different sound produced by the amp. An external amp will only help out if your in a large room, with inefficient speakers. Or you like to crank the volume to ear blistering levels. At normal listening levels your using maybe 1-2watts.

 

[Leprkon]

thanks- another question:

would I benefit more from, functionally speaking, obtaining 5 mono amps as opposed to a single 5 channel amp (eg rotel)? Or would a stereo amp w/3 mono amps be my best option for upgradeability and other advantages of having separate amps?

I don't think the quality would change much one way or the other. Some people don't like all the plugs associated with monoblocks. Other people prefer to buy one or two at a time until they have all they need. Even if you did buy a 5, you could always get two monos down the road someday for 7.1.

The one true benefit from the single amp is that you have alot better control of the heat. Once you start stacking monoblocks, you have to be alot more careful of the spacing between each unit. <shrug>

 

[ruadmaa]

Doubtful That You Will Hear Any Change At All

Let's say that I am currently using a Yamaha RX-V2500.

Let's also say that I am using some Axioms in 5.1:

M60 for mains
M3ti for surrounds
VP100 center
EP350 sub

Now then, will adding an external amp at about 150 wpc/constant improve sound quality, or just volume? I am using a pretty large space, about 2200ft^3, and the 2500 can only do about 60-70 wpc/all 5 driven.

Now, if I added an amp just for the main speakers, would that make my sound lopsided? Or could I utilize the receiver's equalizing (auto and manual) to take care of any such side effects? Thanks.

*btw, awesome forum...my new favorite*

The Yamaha puts out 130 watts/channel. So you intend to add an additional 20 watts. What exactly do you think you will gain by this??? You do realize that you are not additing 150 watts to the 130 watts don't you??? The difference between 130 watts and 150 watts is virtually nothing.

Incidentally, center channel speakers reproduce mostly voice which takes very little amp power to reproduce.

 

[Josuah]

Some monoblocks are designed for stacking, particularly those that can be rack mounted. The Outlaw Audio M2200's for example.

The sound quality might improve but like others I doubt it, as the amplification section of your Yamaha is already pretty decent. Then again, Audioholics does recommend using an external amp with the RX-V2600 as a pre-pro, so who knows. I added an Outlaw Audio 7100 to a Yamaha RX-V1400 and I didn't notice much improvement.

I did notice a large improvement (much larger than I was expecting) moving to an Emotiva DMC-1 and MPS-1 pair. But I didn't try matching the RX-V1400 with the MPS-1, so I can't provide any information on that.

 

[Leprkon]

The Yamaha puts out 130 watts/channel. So you intend to add an additional 20 watts. What exactly do you think you will gain by this??? You do realize that you are not additing 150 watts to the 130 watts don't you??? The difference between 130 watts and 150 watts is virtually nothing.

Incidentally, center channel speakers reproduce mostly voice which takes very little amp power to reproduce.

the Yammy has that much power (130 watts) only in the lab testing guys' dream environment. In the real world, it has much less power going to all channels.

incidentally, center channel speakers, when used with SACD or DVD-audio carry as much load as any of the other speakers.

 

[ruadmaa]

Center Channels Carry As Much Load????

the Yammy has that much power (130 watts) only in the lab testing guys' dream environment. In the real world, it has much less power going to all channels.

incidentally, center channel speakers, when used with SACD or DVD-audio carry as much load as any of the other speakers.

For one thing most center channel speakers carry almost no bass at all nor are they designed to. Most people using 5 or more channel systems also have a powered subwoofer which takes most of the strain off the amp anyway. (I don't know anyone who has their center channel speaker set to large on their receiver) The Yamaha amp that was mentioned has more than enough power to knock the paint off of the wall. No more power is necessary assuming that reasonably efficient speakers are being used.

 

[highfihoney]

Now then, will adding an external amp at about 150 wpc/constant improve sound quality, or just volume? I am using a pretty large space, about 2200ft^3, and the 2500 can only do about 60-70 wpc/all 5 driven.

you should benifit in all areas by adding an external amplifier,volume & dynamics will be the most noticable,by adding an external amp the reciever will be able to push more wattage to the other speakers & take a huge load off the recievers transformer.

i would start out with either a 2 channel amp or a 3 channel amp then listen that way for a while & decide if you even want or need more power to the surrounds before going all out with a 5 channel amp.

btw, the ratings given to your reciever are not accurate at all,the wattage all comes from a shared pool & the more channels that are being driven from that shared pool the less wattage will be sent to any channel.

 

[The Numenorian]

easy killer...

The Yamaha puts out 130 watts/channel. So you intend to add an additional 20 watts. What exactly do you think you will gain by this??? You do realize that you are not additing 150 watts to the 130 watts don't you??? The difference between 130 watts and 150 watts is virtually nothing.

Incidentally, center channel speakers reproduce mostly voice which takes very little amp power to reproduce.

No, it doesn't put out 130 wpc- it will do about that with about two channels driven, according the the Audioholics review, but with all channels driven (7) it is considerably less than that (more like 50 or 60, if I remember correctly). As highfi stated, the wattage ratings of receivers (like my yamaha) are rarely with all channels driven. Please don't discuss simple things like this in such a rude way- I came here for ADVICE, anyway. The axioms I am using can handle more power than the receiver can pump out with just ONE channel, and that's why I want to know how an external amp will effect my sound quality!

 

[ruadmaa]

Discuss this in a rude way????

No, it doesn't put out 130 wpc- it will do about that with about two channels driven, according the the Audioholics review, but with all channels driven (7) it is considerably less than that (more like 50 or 60, if I remember correctly). As highfi stated, the wattage ratings of receivers (like my yamaha) are rarely with all channels driven. Please don't discuss simple things like this in such a rude way- I came here for ADVICE, anyway. The axioms I am using can handle more power than the receiver can pump out with just ONE channel, and that's why I want to know how an external amp will effect my sound quality!

I said nothing rude, if anything your post is rude. You wanted an opinion, I gave you one.

Incidentally, rarely are all channels driven at any given time.

 

[mardelgo]

I also agree that a external amp can improve the sound if you have big speakers. I add a amp(250rms) to biamp a Polks RTi12 (the amp to the bass drivers, and my receiver DSP A1 for the mids and tweeter) I test it before I buy it, left speaker only the receiver, right speaker amp and receiver (and yes the signal was the same channel for the two speakers),what I hear is a cleaner and more balance sound, not stronger bass just better, the sound was warmer less thin. Two other things that I try before I bought the amp was biwiring and expensive high end cables (a $300 and $600 a pair), ( my cables are 12g $2 a meter) and none of these two things change or
improve nothing.
I also had and Yamaha Rx-v 1400 but this receiver amp was weak and the sound was extremely thin with the RTi12,(I also try a Marantz 7500 but sound exactly like the Rx-v1400 with these speakers) so I think that the problem was that some speakers really need powerful amps to sound good.

 

[The Numenorian]

The Yamaha puts out 130 watts/channel. So you intend to add an additional 20 watts. What exactly do you think you will gain by this??? You do realize that you are not additing 150 watts to the 130 watts don't you??? The difference between 130 watts and 150 watts is virtually nothing.

Incidentally, center channel speakers reproduce mostly voice which takes very little amp power to reproduce.

I hate to say it, but saying stuff like "what do you think you will gain by this???" is just short of calling me an idiot. Plus, I can see you are a seasoned member- I assumed you knew about the all-channels driven situation regarding receivers. And you're right in saying that the difference between 130 watts and 150 watts is insignificant- that would be the case if these were constant RMS per channel ratings. Now please, let's call it even and move on.

Also- thanks for those who gave me good advice! I feel much more educated than I did before!

 

[highfihoney]

you lucky sob i would kill for a room as big as yours

a simple & cost effective way to find out if adding an external amp will help you is to go to your local "guitar center" store & pick up a pro amp with gain controls for each channel,you can get several different amps for less than $400 that will push 200 watts to 300 watts.

guitar center stores offer a 30 day no questions asked money back gaurantee on amps that they have in stock.

from what ive found out in my systems is that dynamic peaks are the biggest killer of any amplifier using as much as 10 times the wattage for a short term to cover the peak,durring these peaks is when the demand on the amp or reciever is the greatest ,im a firm believer in running the best possible speaker/amplifier combination possible to cover these peak demands.

here is a good example of dynamic peaks in action,right now im listening to the band "montrose" & i have the song "rock candy" playing at a steady 12 watts & the dynamic peaks are about 90 watts.

will the differences be able to be heard at all volumes? maybe not but the harder you push the easier the differences are to hear.

 

[indcrimdefense]

the only real way to find out is too purchase an amp or try and obtain a demo, and see if you can tell a difference. i added a krell kav 2250 to power my fronts and noticed a substantial improvement in the sound quality, particularly with the bass. for me it was not an issue with sheer volume, but the quality of sound at any listening level. another issue is the quality of amp you entend on purchasing, and how that amp sounds with your receiver. i demoed alot of amps, and noticed quality differences between different amps, and also between what the amp was hooked to. a cary amp with a denon receiver was not a great match, nor justified the price of the cary amp, however a krell showcase was a great match with my denon receiver. adding a 2 channel amp to a receiver, i never noticed a mismatched quality to the sound coming from the rears. however the only way to find out is to buy or demo an amp and find out for yourself.

 

[jmanlp]

Dont you usually need twice the power ie going from 130 watts to 260 watts for a perceptible increase in output?

 

[highfihoney]

Dont you usually need twice the power ie going from 130 watts to 260 watts for a perceptible increase in output?

im not positive of the exact figure but yours seems about right,i just tried it after reading your post & with my amps running at 12 watts continuous i can start to hear an increase after about 19 watts,the added wattage also pushed the peaks to about 100 watts.

 

[The Numenorian]

sweet

thanks for the awesome advice, now I have some great options for budgeting and upgrading!

 

[mike c]

highfihoney, why do you say his room size is good? (better sound? ability to make the speakers scream?)

btw, I have 2600 cu.ft. myself