Will an external amp boost just volume, or improve overall sound quality?

[highfihoney]

highfihoney, why do you say his room size is good? (better sound? ability to make the speakers scream?)

btw, I have 2600 cu.ft. myself

its not that his room size is just good but larger rooms allow for more placement options plus i really miss my old dedicated audio room,the room in my last house was 28.5 x 33 & allowed me to have enough room for a bunch of different speaker systems,at one time i had klipsch horns,klipsch cornwalls,klipsch heresys,jbl l250 ti se,magnepan mmg's,altec 14's & the mcintosh xrt 22's all in the same room & i could switch speaker systems.

when we moved to the new (smaller) house i was forced to sell most of my collection of classic speakers from lack of room & that was not fun.

 

[mtrycrafts]

the Yammy has that much power (130 watts) only in the lab testing guys' dream environment. In the real world, it has much less power going to all channels.

incidentally, center channel speakers, when used with SACD or DVD-audio carry as much load as any of the other speakers.

Well, this goes back to the all channels debate

That SACD and DVDA would depend on sending the exact same levels and at the exact same instant to affect all channel performance. A fraction of a second differences and it is a one or two channel operation and that 130W is usually 2 channels driven.
But, all this applies at the max outputs, not in normal operation. Maybe he does need bigger amps if he is at the edge all the time. I would not be his neighbor in the apartment

 

[mtrycrafts]

btw, the ratings given to your reciever are not accurate at all,the wattage all comes from a shared pool & the more channels that are being driven from that shared pool the less wattage will be sent to any channel.

The ratings are accurate as the FTC does not require all channels driven specs. All channels driven would depend on the source material if there are any peak power to all channels at the exact same instant. And, for peaks, the dynamic headroom would also be a consideration for the performance. Outside of this, it is a different discussion.

 

[mtrycrafts]

here is a good example of dynamic peaks in action,right now im listening to the band "montrose" & i have the song "rock candy" playing at a steady 12 watts & the dynamic peaks are about 90 watts.

will the differences be able to be heard at all volumes? maybe not but the harder you push the easier the differences are to hear.

Since I am not listening to that, nor do I have that song to test
is this observation in one of the channels, 2, all? if in multiple channels, how did you know it was exactly at the same instant?

 

[mtrycrafts]

im not positive of the exact figure but yours seems about right,i just tried it after reading your post & with my amps running at 12 watts continuous i can start to hear an increase after about 19 watts,the added wattage also pushed the peaks to about 100 watts.

12 watts continuous? What speakers are you using? Sensitivity? At friends, it is rarely over 1 watts, excluding peaks, mostly less and plenty loud.

 

[highfihoney]

The ratings are accurate as the FTC does not require all channels driven specs.

accurate to what load,every manufacturer on the planet dreams up some new goofy a$$ way to measure the output of their gear(some from just a single tone) thats how we ended up with $199 /10 pound systems sitting on the shelves at stores with wild claims of 1,700 watts.

just because the ftc dont require honesty in advertising does not make it right.

 

[highfihoney]

12 watts continuous? What speakers are you using? Sensitivity? At friends, it is rarely over 1 watts, excluding peaks, mostly less and plenty loud.

if you think 1 watt is plenty loud then you would hate to be in my room when there is 1,500 watts being used even with 104 db speakers(klipsch corner horns) i have never thought 1 watt to be plenty loud.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

It was your ego Actually it was probably your brain precieving a different sound produced by the amp. An external amp will only help out if your in a large room, with inefficient speakers. Or you like to crank the volume to ear blistering levels. At normal listening levels your using maybe 1-2watts.

I just got back from working a trade show (Home and Garden Show). They had hundreds of dealers. One was a high end audio dealer here in Columbus. They brought out a McIntosh setup consisting of two monobloc amps, a set of tower speakers, dvd player, prepro, and a 72" DLP running off an 8300HD DVR. The monoblocs were hitting 120 watts without a hiccup, and this was not at ear bleeding levels. The VU meters were huge. Here are the two amps and speakers. (wish I had my digital camera).

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=14&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1022&product=MC1201

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=20&cat=Loudspeaker+Systems&prodid=1108&product=XLS360

BTW, I asked how much they had wrapped up in interconnects. They guy said maybe $200. Now that's impressive, seeing those monoblocs run ~$9000 each.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Let's say that I am currently using a Yamaha RX-V2500.

Let's also say that I am using some Axioms in 5.1:

M60 for mains
M3ti for surrounds
VP100 center
EP350 sub

Now then, will adding an external amp at about 150 wpc/constant improve sound quality, or just volume? I am using a pretty large space, about 2200ft^3, and the 2500 can only do about 60-70 wpc/all 5 driven.

Now, if I added an amp just for the main speakers, would that make my sound lopsided? Or could I utilize the receiver's equalizing (auto and manual) to take care of any such side effects? Thanks.

*btw, awesome forum...my new favorite*

This depends on a few issues. Firstly, do you perceive anything that doesn't sound right as your system is now?

How loud do you listen, spl wise? How sensitive are those speakers? How far away from the speakers? Music in 5ch mono? Perhaps none of your software has full signal output at the same instant?
these affect amp performance.

Excluding the peak demands for a second, your yams 1 watt will sound the same from the recommended amps by others, or the 10 watts, or the 50 watts. If your needs are such that you exceed the design limits, that is a different issue.
Adding external amps would not be a problem. You will level match the outputs. If you want to EQ, the Yam will do it to its capability.

I see those speakers are 93dB spl sensitive in room, pretty good, and 8 ohms, an easy load. Not sure what you will gain from external amps with these speakers, as they will get plenty loud.

 

[Sheep]

Dont you usually need twice the power ie going from 130 watts to 260 watts for a perceptible increase in output?

Thats for twice the Voume. BUT, there isn't 130 watts to begin with.

I say the amp will help with bass. Highs and mids are not that demanding ot power, but woofers need the extra headroom. If you plan on having a low crossover point, get one. Its you cut them at 80, it might not help as much. Either way, it will take a load of the receiver amps. How big of a load is up to you.

SheepStar

 

[highfihoney]

I just got back from working a trade show (Home and Garden Show). They had hundreds of dealers. One was a high end audio dealer here in Columbus. They brought out a McIntosh setup consisting of two monobloc amps, a set of tower speakers, dvd player, prepro, and a 72" DLP running off an 8300HD DVR. The monoblocs were hitting 120 watts without a hiccup, and this was not at ear bleeding levels. The VU meters were huge. Here are the two amps and speakers.

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=14&cat=Power+Amplifiers&prodid=1022&product=MC1201

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/mcprod/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=20&cat=Loudspeaker+Systems&prodid=1108&product=XLS360

BTW, I asked how much they had wrapped up in interconnects. They guy said maybe $200. Now that's impressive, seeing those monoblocs run ~$9000 each.

i love mine,out of every amp ive ever owned the mc1201's are defenitely the best performing amps ever,its also nice to see real time power demands that the speakers are putting on the amps.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

i love mine,out of every amp ive ever owned the mc1201's are defenitely the best performing amps ever,its also nice to see real time power demands that the speakers are putting on the amps.

Those towers were 85dB at 8 ohms nominal. Anyone who says 85dB towers aren't inefficient are up to their armpits in dung. There's no way on earth a standard AVR would come close to pushing those McIntosh 360's. When a mfg. rates it's speakers as being able to handle 600 watts, they're not kidding. Get an amp.

That's always been my beef with my Polk RTi10's. They're not AVR friendly. "Recommended Amplifier Power 20-300 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB" - which translates to "buy an external amp b/c your weak Denon 3805 won't do us justice.

I've not demo'd Axiom speakers, but I'd think their towers are probably similar to the RTi's based on specs. If you own them, you'll know if you need an external amp. My opinion if you're in the market for an external amp, get something beefy, something with some real weight, and stick with mono or two channel. They won't generate as much heat as ones with multiple channels sharing one large heat sink. Those McIntosh 1201's are claimed to "never get hot."

 

[Josuah]

I was of the impression that the power handling ratings were there to say at what point you're overdriving the speakers and pushing them into distortion and compression. Some speakers have a minimum watts spec though. Not really sure why that's there.

 

[The Numenorian]

anyone have an easy button?

phew...McIntosh...we're talking some serious $$$ here!

The reason I'm asking all this amp stuff is b/c I do feel that the response on the speakers is a tad bit thin, especially on the mains. I'm just looking for something to push my system a little closer to the 'wow' range. of course, i could just save up about 50 grand and take the easy way out. But then i would't have a life, now would I?

I wish I had an easy button...

 

[mike c]

I read the thread but did not notice your budget ... how much are you willing to go? would you consider powering just the front left and right? what about the Rotel RB1080 200w x 2. or Outlaw amplifiers (consider 200w and above)

 

[The Numenorian]

well, I'm the type that likes to look at a product's specs, read some reviews,audition it and then determine whether or not it's a good buy for what it is and does to my system. But certainly, my overall amplification budget cannot exceed ANY MORE than $2000, with let's say a $1200-$1800 nominal budget.

oops- i would definately consider just amping the mains.

 

[mike c]

check out EARTHQUAKE CINENOVA 3 or 5
someone told me that they find it to be really good and with good value. www.federalstereo.com

or you can be one of the pioneers in the audioworld with a Rotel RB1092

 

[The Numenorian]

ooo the 1092, i've been checking that one out for a while

the earthquakes...are these the ones that the other guy in this section said fried with 2-3ft flames? not that lightning strikes twice, of course. lol...but he did say customer service was the pits.

 

[highfihoney]

Thats for twice the Voume. BUT, there isn't 130 watts to begin with.

I say the amp will help with bass. Highs and mids are not that demanding ot power, but woofers need the extra headroom. If you plan on having a low crossover point, get one. Its you cut them at 80, it might not help as much. Either way, it will take a load of the receiver amps. How big of a load is up to you.

SheepStar

hi sheep,double the wattage (with any amp) dose not equal double the volume,to double the volume it takes 8 to 10 times the amount of wattage,there is only about a 10% gain in spl's when you double the wattage.

 

[mike c]

numenorian, the other guy in the other thread was located in Canada. that's where he says the CS was the pits.