Which amp will sound best for vinyl?

P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
I just checked the specs for both and the two differences are:

Channel separation at 1 kHz- Red (22 dB) vs Blue (25 dB)
Frequency range at - 3dB- Red (20-25,000 Hz) vs Blue (20-22,000 Hz)

Both have an ellyptical stylus and the tips have the same dimensions, so the differences are caused by the metal shank on the Red because the rest is the same- this has always been the case for using a nude stylus, but unless someone is comparing them, nobody will ever be able to say with certainty which they're hearing or that the Red sounds bad.
Agreed, I said what I said only because the subjective type may hear a warmer sound from the red and a more detailed sound from the blue. That's if they search and found what had been reported by some users, and/or the manufacturer. We both know how humans are prone to hear what they have been told to hear/expect.:D If I have nothing better to spend money on I wouldn't mind getting a blue one to try, again just because it is so easy, but won't likely do it until the red is worn, just like you suggested..
 
S

Squishman

Full Audioholic
What's the difference you noticed?
The technics had TT rumble in my subwoofer. And two 35+ year-old Audio Technica carts with two headshells. Although, there were approx 20 years of not really playing records. Worlds better in every respect. I missed the semi-auto feature of the Technics for a while, but not anymore. The Q-up was necessary for me, since I had the Technics.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Comparing Technics tables of 'yesteryear' with their current 1200G table will show the huge improvements they have made. While 4k (msrp) is nothing to sneeze at the SL-1200G is truly an outstanding table

Then again there were a variety of lesser turntables from Technics, particularly the automatic ones, compared to the SL1200 line. The new one is nice but I don't know about $4k nice. :)
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
the new 1200G is beyond nice, given what the real world out the door pricing is, $3300-3400 there are few, if any that compete in that range or beyond until one approaches 5 figures. One of, if not the best DD applications out there right now, dead quiet, stability/pitch that no belt drive will touch.

Myself, while more than happy with my VPI rig, if it disappeared tomorrow I would probably zero in on it or a Rega 8/10 and call it a day .......
 
S

Squishman

Full Audioholic
Wait, you compared something 20 y apart?
What? No. I used the Technics a lot in the past 4-5 years. I would say I dabbled in records here and there for a few years before then. Maybe 20 was an exaggeration, but I can't remember. It was getting old. And I didn't mean I didn't play records for 20 years entirely. I knew what I had. An old and getting older tt. Just got the ProJect several months ago.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
What? No. I used the Technics a lot in the past 4-5 years. I would say I dabbled in records here and there for a few years before then. Maybe 20 was an exaggeration, but I can't remember. It was getting old. And I didn't mean I didn't play records for 20 years entirely. I knew what I had. An old and getting older tt. Just got the ProJect several months ago.
OK, I got you wrong. You said
Although, there were approx 20 years of not really playing records.
I thought it was the pause between Technics and ProJect. Anyway, I have a 40 years old Technics and I thought you had some genuine performance complaint. If it was rumble, that's another topic altogether. Mine had some noise which was taken care of by detailed inside cleaning and greasing.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
Agreed, I said what I said only because the subjective type may hear a warmer sound from the red and a more detailed sound from the blue. That's if they search and found what had been reported by some users, and/or the manufacturer. We both know how humans are prone to hear what they have been told to hear/expect.:D If I have nothing better to spend money on I wouldn't mind getting a blue one to try, again just because it is so easy, but won't likely do it until the red is worn, just like you suggested..
"Warmer" doesn't come in the 22K-25K range- that's usually described as 'air'. That said, I like my moving coil cartridges, but I don't know how much is due to their stated high frequency response specs of 50KHz (Audio Technica AT-31E) and 45KHz (Denon 103D).

I don't remember what, if anything, that I may have been told about the sound of the Denon, but I had owned an AT-30E before getting the AT-31E, at my employee accommodation cost. I learned early on in the business that anything someone said when describing sound should bounce off of my head and I should come to my own conclusions. My preferences don't seem to have changed much- I use a pair of speakers that I bought in 1979 in one system and I think they still sound great. Different from my main speakers, but I really don't like swapping speakers very much.

That was a seriously great part of working for a stereo store in the past. That price break no longer exists unless a store owner wants to sell to their employees at dealer cost (it's usually 10% over cost).
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
The technics had TT rumble in my subwoofer. And two 35+ year-old Audio Technica carts with two headshells. Although, there were approx 20 years of not really playing records. Worlds better in every respect. I missed the semi-auto feature of the Technics for a while, but not anymore. The Q-up was necessary for me, since I had the Technics.
Receivers and integrated amplifiers used to have a subsonic filter that was specifically designed for turntable rumble, but subwoofers were very uncommon until the home theater trend hit.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
"Warmer" doesn't come in the 22K-25K range- that's usually described as 'air'. That said, I like my moving coil cartridges, but I don't know how much is due to their stated high frequency response specs of 50KHz (Audio Technica AT-31E) and 45KHz (Denon 103D).

I don't remember what, if anything, that I may have been told about the sound of the Denon, but I had owned an AT-30E before getting the AT-31E, at my employee accommodation cost. I learned early on in the business that anything someone said when describing sound should bounce off of my head and I should come to my own conclusions. My preferences don't seem to have changed much- I use a pair of speakers that I bought in 1979 in one system and I think they still sound great. Different from my main speakers, but I really don't like swapping speakers very much.

That was a seriously great part of working for a stereo store in the past. That price break no longer exists unless a store owner wants to sell to their employees at dealer cost (it's usually 10% over cost).
I think you missed my point. It isn't something I believe, and I was just sort of regurgitating what had been said, by other, including Ortofon, in case the OP chose to believe that sort of claims, that such claims exist. For me, I go with specs and measurements, in addition to my ears.
 
3db

3db

Audioholic Overlord
The Ortifon 2M Red is a very good cartridge in its own right and it works exceedly well with carbon fibre tonearms on ProJect turntables.
 
S

Squishman

Full Audioholic
The Ortifon 2M Red is a very good cartridge in its own right and it works exceedly well with carbon fibre tonearms on ProJect turntables.
It is good. In comparison to my Audio Technicas, its like comparing a Pinto to a Lamborghini.
 
killdozzer

killdozzer

Audioholic Samurai
Bu
Agreed, I said what I said only because the subjective type may hear a warmer sound from the red and a more detailed sound from the blue. That's if they search and found what had been reported by some users, and/or the manufacturer. We both know how humans are prone to hear what they have been told to hear/expect.:D If I have nothing better to spend money on I wouldn't mind getting a blue one to try, again just because it is so easy, but won't likely do it until the red is worn, just like you suggested..
But, are those specs enough to predict performance? I always took those to refer to compatibility the most, not performance.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Field Marshall
The Ortifon 2M Red is a very good cartridge in its own right and it works exceedly well with carbon fibre tonearms on ProJect turntables.
And if and when you need to replace or upgrade the stylus you can install the blue. :)
 

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