Which amp will sound best for vinyl?

PENG · Nov 20, 2020

highfigh said:
I just checked the specs for both and the two differences are:

Channel separation at 1 kHz- Red (22 dB) vs Blue (25 dB)
Frequency range at - 3dB- Red (20-25,000 Hz) vs Blue (20-22,000 Hz)

Both have an ellyptical stylus and the tips have the same dimensions, so the differences are caused by the metal shank on the Red because the rest is the same- this has always been the case for using a nude stylus, but unless someone is comparing them, nobody will ever be able to say with certainty which they're hearing or that the Red sounds bad.

Agreed, I said what I said only because the subjective type may hear a warmer sound from the red and a more detailed sound from the blue. That's if they search and found what had been reported by some users, and/or the manufacturer. We both know how humans are prone to hear what they have been told to hear/expect.

If I have nothing better to spend money on I wouldn't mind getting a blue one to try, again just because it is so easy, but won't likely do it until the red is worn, just like you suggested..

Squishman · Nov 20, 2020

killdozzer said:
What's the difference you noticed?

The technics had TT rumble in my subwoofer. And two 35+ year-old Audio Technica carts with two headshells. Although, there were approx 20 years of not really playing records. Worlds better in every respect. I missed the semi-auto feature of the Technics for a while, but not anymore. The Q-up was necessary for me, since I had the Technics.

Mikado463 · Nov 20, 2020

Comparing Technics tables of 'yesteryear' with their current 1200G table will show the huge improvements they have made. While 4k (msrp) is nothing to sneeze at the SL-1200G is truly an outstanding table

Technics Audio USA

Music is borderless and timeless, touching people's hearts across cultures and generations. Each day the discovery of a truly emotive experience from an unencountered sound awaits. Let us take you on your journey to rediscover music. Technics.

www.technics.com

lovinthehd · Nov 20, 2020

Mikado463 said:
Comparing Technics tables of 'yesteryear' with their current 1200G table will show the huge improvements they have made. While 4k (msrp) is nothing to sneeze at the SL-1200G is truly an outstanding table

Technics Audio USA

Music is borderless and timeless, touching people's hearts across cultures and generations. Each day the discovery of a truly emotive experience from an unencountered sound awaits. Let us take you on your journey to rediscover music. Technics.

www.technics.com

Then again there were a variety of lesser turntables from Technics, particularly the automatic ones, compared to the SL1200 line. The new one is nice but I don't know about $4k nice.

Mikado463 · Nov 20, 2020

the new 1200G is beyond nice, given what the real world out the door pricing is, $3300-3400 there are few, if any that compete in that range or beyond until one approaches 5 figures. One of, if not the best DD applications out there right now, dead quiet, stability/pitch that no belt drive will touch.

Myself, while more than happy with my VPI rig, if it disappeared tomorrow I would probably zero in on it or a Rega 8/10 and call it a day .......

killdozzer · Nov 20, 2020

Squishman said:
Although, there were approx 20 years of not really playing records.

Wait, you compared something 20 y apart?

Squishman · Nov 20, 2020

killdozzer said:
Wait, you compared something 20 y apart?

What? No. I used the Technics a lot in the past 4-5 years. I would say I dabbled in records here and there for a few years before then. Maybe 20 was an exaggeration, but I can't remember. It was getting old. And I didn't mean I didn't play records for 20 years entirely. I knew what I had. An old and getting older tt. Just got the ProJect several months ago.

killdozzer · Nov 21, 2020

Squishman said:
What? No. I used the Technics a lot in the past 4-5 years. I would say I dabbled in records here and there for a few years before then. Maybe 20 was an exaggeration, but I can't remember. It was getting old. And I didn't mean I didn't play records for 20 years entirely. I knew what I had. An old and getting older tt. Just got the ProJect several months ago.

OK, I got you wrong. You said

Although, there were approx 20 years of not really playing records.

I thought it was the pause between Technics and ProJect. Anyway, I have a 40 years old Technics and I thought you had some genuine performance complaint. If it was rumble, that's another topic altogether. Mine had some noise which was taken care of by detailed inside cleaning and greasing.

highfigh · Nov 21, 2020

PENG said:
Agreed, I said what I said only because the subjective type may hear a warmer sound from the red and a more detailed sound from the blue. That's if they search and found what had been reported by some users, and/or the manufacturer. We both know how humans are prone to hear what they have been told to hear/expect. If I have nothing better to spend money on I wouldn't mind getting a blue one to try, again just because it is so easy, but won't likely do it until the red is worn, just like you suggested..

"Warmer" doesn't come in the 22K-25K range- that's usually described as 'air'. That said, I like my moving coil cartridges, but I don't know how much is due to their stated high frequency response specs of 50KHz (Audio Technica AT-31E) and 45KHz (Denon 103D).

I don't remember what, if anything, that I may have been told about the sound of the Denon, but I had owned an AT-30E before getting the AT-31E, at my employee accommodation cost. I learned early on in the business that anything someone said when describing sound should bounce off of my head and I should come to my own conclusions. My preferences don't seem to have changed much- I use a pair of speakers that I bought in 1979 in one system and I think they still sound great. Different from my main speakers, but I really don't like swapping speakers very much.

That was a seriously great part of working for a stereo store in the past. That price break no longer exists unless a store owner wants to sell to their employees at dealer cost (it's usually 10% over cost).

highfigh · Nov 21, 2020

Squishman said:
The technics had TT rumble in my subwoofer. And two 35+ year-old Audio Technica carts with two headshells. Although, there were approx 20 years of not really playing records. Worlds better in every respect. I missed the semi-auto feature of the Technics for a while, but not anymore. The Q-up was necessary for me, since I had the Technics.

Receivers and integrated amplifiers used to have a subsonic filter that was specifically designed for turntable rumble, but subwoofers were very uncommon until the home theater trend hit.

PENG · Nov 21, 2020

highfigh said:
"Warmer" doesn't come in the 22K-25K range- that's usually described as 'air'. That said, I like my moving coil cartridges, but I don't know how much is due to their stated high frequency response specs of 50KHz (Audio Technica AT-31E) and 45KHz (Denon 103D).

I don't remember what, if anything, that I may have been told about the sound of the Denon, but I had owned an AT-30E before getting the AT-31E, at my employee accommodation cost. I learned early on in the business that anything someone said when describing sound should bounce off of my head and I should come to my own conclusions. My preferences don't seem to have changed much- I use a pair of speakers that I bought in 1979 in one system and I think they still sound great. Different from my main speakers, but I really don't like swapping speakers very much.

That was a seriously great part of working for a stereo store in the past. That price break no longer exists unless a store owner wants to sell to their employees at dealer cost (it's usually 10% over cost).

I think you missed my point. It isn't something I believe, and I was just sort of regurgitating what had been said, by other, including Ortofon, in case the OP chose to believe that sort of claims, that such claims exist. For me, I go with specs and measurements, in addition to my ears.

3db · Nov 21, 2020

davidscott said:
I might just have to add one of those Q-Ups to my REGA

If you do add one, let me or us know how you like it.

3db · Nov 21, 2020

The Ortifon 2M Red is a very good cartridge in its own right and it works exceedly well with carbon fibre tonearms on ProJect turntables.

Squishman · Nov 22, 2020

3db said:
The Ortifon 2M Red is a very good cartridge in its own right and it works exceedly well with carbon fibre tonearms on ProJect turntables.

It is good. In comparison to my Audio Technicas, its like comparing a Pinto to a Lamborghini.

killdozzer · Nov 25, 2020

Bu

PENG said:
Agreed, I said what I said only because the subjective type may hear a warmer sound from the red and a more detailed sound from the blue. That's if they search and found what had been reported by some users, and/or the manufacturer. We both know how humans are prone to hear what they have been told to hear/expect. If I have nothing better to spend money on I wouldn't mind getting a blue one to try, again just because it is so easy, but won't likely do it until the red is worn, just like you suggested..

But, are those specs enough to predict performance? I always took those to refer to compatibility the most, not performance.

davidscott · Nov 25, 2020

3db said:
The Ortifon 2M Red is a very good cartridge in its own right and it works exceedly well with carbon fibre tonearms on ProJect turntables.

And if and when you need to replace or upgrade the stylus you can install the blue.