Where Do I Compromise?

[Audiot]

I used an OmniMicII to do measurements to figure out the PEQ settings. Success! No sub crawl or anything else, I just placed it midway between the Salon2s. I thought I invented a new technique, but TLSGuy tells me this is common in Europe.
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I'm bumping this because I read your reply again. The models and my measurements showed good potential for a central placement. My speakers (to the baffle) are 42" off the rear wall and 34 inches off the side wall. I know what you mean about how the Salons like to be close to the wall to make bass. Unfortunately, in my room, they weren't quite the fun in the imaging/immersion department when they were against the wall. That's when I decided to add subs.

In any case, spurred by your comments and my understanding of my room I tried it your way a couple of days ago. My measurements and the REW models suggested it would work but I hadn't thought to try it. Unfortunately, I didn't think it worked as well there. There's a null somewhere in the mid-bass. I didn't see it in the numbers, but I could hear it.

 

[DD66000]

I'm bumping this because I read your reply again. The models and my measurements showed good potential for a central placement. My speakers (to the baffle) are 42" off the rear wall and 34 inches off the side wall. I know what you mean about how the Salons like to be close to the wall to make bass. Unfortunately, in my room, they weren't quite the fun in the imaging/immersion department when they were against the wall. That's when I decided to add subs.

In any case, spurred by your comments and my understanding of my room I tried it your way a couple of days ago. My measurements and the REW models suggested it would work but I hadn't thought to try it. Unfortunately, I didn't think it worked as well there. There's a null somewhere in the mid-bass. I didn't see it in the numbers, but I could hear it.

Yep, proper placement of quality speakers, like the Salon2, is what gives the perfect soundstage. Very few, if any, dome tweeter systems do well against walls. An exception being if they were on a true 45* angle in the corners. But then the room's width would have to be of a dimension that would make it work, also.
The room I built 20 years ago, was 17.5' wide...96" c/c spacing of the mains, 57" to the side walls, 42"-45" to the rear wall.
It was the best soundstage I ever heard in any house. And as it turned out, the bass hot spots(not counting corner placement) were at the same locations.
I've heard many systems that the c/c distance was greater than 96", but too close to the side walls, as a result, and the width, depth of the soundstage was nowhere near as good.

 

[sterling shoote]

I'd compromise on all, except pre/pro and mains. That statement is coming from my experience with home theatre and gobs of money put into it since Sony came out with stereo Betamax back in the early 1980's, which gave me my first taste for home theatre. From that point, it has been seemingly endless upgrades for me with two exceptions, mains (JBL L100t3's) and a Sony TA-E9000ES pre/pro purchased in 2000 which replaced a Sony TA-E1000 purchased in the early 1990's. I believe the pre/pro and mains more than anything else defines the overall satisfaction with home theatre, not surround speakers, not the sub, not the power amplification and not the source components.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm bumping this because I read your reply again. The models and my measurements showed good potential for a central placement. My speakers (to the baffle) are 42" off the rear wall and 34 inches off the side wall. I know what you mean about how the Salons like to be close to the wall to make bass. Unfortunately, in my room, they weren't quite the fun in the imaging/immersion department when they were against the wall. That's when I decided to add subs.

In any case, spurred by your comments and my understanding of my room I tried it your way a couple of days ago. My measurements and the REW models suggested it would work but I hadn't thought to try it. Unfortunately, I didn't think it worked as well there. There's a null somewhere in the mid-bass. I didn't see it in the numbers, but I could hear it.

Some questions:

1. Are you using a mic stand when you take the measurements?
2. How many measurements are you taking at your listening seat?
3. Have you tried playing test tones to identify the suspected null you hear? (Many are available for free download.)
4. When you measured the Salon2s to get the baseline for the sub fill-in using PEQs, what did you see?
5. Do the subs allow you to choose from different slopes for the low-pass filter?
6. Do you have the Salon2 low frequency compensation set for "normal"?

42" from the baffle to the back wall is sort of close to the wall for Salon2s. Since the Salon2 is 23" deep the port is only about two feet from the back wall. You might find that bass smoothness from the Salon2s is enhanced if you pull them out another foot from the back wall, if that is practical.

 

[Audiot]

Some questions:

1. Are you using a mic stand when you take the measurements?
2. How many measurements are you taking at your listening seat?
3. Have you tried playing test tones to identify the suspected null you hear? (Many are available for free download.)
4. When you measured the Salon2s to get the baseline for the sub fill-in using PEQs, what did you see?
5. Do the subs allow you to choose from different slopes for the low-pass filter?
6. Do you have the Salon2 low frequency compensation set for "normal"?

42" from the baffle to the back wall is sort of close to the wall for Salon2s. Since the Salon2 is 23" deep the port is only about two feet from the back wall. You might find that bass smoothness from the Salon2s is enhanced if you pull them out another foot from the back wall, if that is practical.

1. Yes.
2. SMAART. SMAART is FFT based. Link
3. Yes. Have test cds. Null at 65Hz. Your suggested position has lesser flexibility (fore/aft) for placement in my room.
4. Don't use or have independent PEQ with this sub. Use a crossover and JL's DARO. 18 bands, cut only. Link
5. Normal.

Correction: speaker baffles are 42" from the traps. The traps are 8" thick.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Don't use or have independent PEQ with this sub. Use a crossover and JL's DARO. 18 bands, cut only.

You can't use my technique effectively and achieve results like I achieve without digital PEQs. Nice crossover though. I used four PEQs in my previous room, two in my current room with my latest tune.

65Hz seems like a weird frequency for a null. Many room have a reinforcing mode at about 60-65Hz, which can be very annoying.