What is up with the JBL Synthesis systems?

[silversurfer]

ACI is a class act. Not only is that Maestro a great sub, the make some great speakers. Would love to try their new Sapphire. The old one was very nice, and if they have improved on it, look out!

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

I'll try to live with myself. But it doesn't change the fact that the KMRS is outperformed by other models (some costing more, some less) including the AvantGarde' Basshorn, the Bag End INFRA-18, The ACI Maestro (you may need 2, but they're cheaper at $2500), The Hsu Tn1220's, and even your favorite Velodyne DSP controlled 1812 signature. I'm not talking sheer Db's either, 120 @ 20 is an impressive number, but its also something that I have never encountered in serious music listening, my short list here is all about quality, and I admit there are dozens of excellant models I haven't even heard yet.

I'm sorry if you took my opinion of the Krell subwoofer as a personal attack on you or your sensibilites (Even though you don't own one), but I have to call the overpriced sub for what it is. Compared to a few others I have personally experienced, not relying on fluff reports or 2nd hand accounts, its just not at the top of the hill.

 

[jaxvon]

The way I look at it, if a sub can easily do 20Hz @ 120dB, then it will sound AWESOME at normal listening levels at 20Hz on down. Since it can go so much harder, it should be tight, controlled, and not break a sweat, even doing loud HT duty. Extra headroom is always a welcome addition.

 

[silversurfer]

I'm not sure I would buy into that theory. I have heard subs that can only play down to about 30hz that sound better (to me) than some subs that play down to 20hz when they both played music above 30hz.

I would rather take a great sounding sub that played only to 30hz, than mediocre sub that played down to 20hz.

 

[jaxvon]

I agree with you. I'm talking about the idea that if a sub can sound great doing 20Hz at 120dB, then it should be near perfect if it's doing 20Hz at 100dB. I'm only talking about output at 20Hz, not overall FR.

 

[Privateer]

Privateer, If you make $80K, get a girlfriend. Trust me, they are even better than an 1812....

You should see the fat whores were I live. For now and for a long time I will take a good HT/2CH system over a woman any day.

That and everything else aside what would you say is one of the best subwoofers on the market? Tell me and I will go out and buy it.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

You should see the fat whores were I live. For now and for a long time I will take a good HT/2CH system over a woman any day.

That and everything else aside what would you say is one of the best subwoofers on the market? Tell me and I will go out and buy it.

This might be better than a fat whore. My side still hurts!

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_ss.htm

My second choice would be the box sub.

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_b12_plus_4.htm

 

[8118]

JBL Synthesis is almost the perfect HT system. Comparing single component actually doesnt make very good sense. HT is a system, all component work together, i rather spend equally for all, and not putting all my bucks for a single sub...

after all, HT is a personal life style, just go with what u are comfortable and affordable.... and for the ride as well... personally, i prefer Porsche...

bill gates doesnt own a HT, he own a Cinema ..

how about IMAX 3D cinema with 12000 W uncompress digital surround sound...

 

[craigsub]

You should see the fat whores were I live. For now and for a long time I will take a good HT/2CH system over a woman any day.

heh heh ... You are either too picky, or you need to get to $200 grand and move ...

That and everything else aside what would you say is one of the best subwoofers on the market? Tell me and I will go out and buy it.

There is no one absolute best subwoofer. See the above italicized quote, get to $200k and try several ...

 

[sarj04]

Sorry to dig up an old thread, but I am new here and had to offer some input when I stumbled across this. I am the VERY satisfied (and admittedly biased by now) owner of a JBL Syn 2 system. However, I was not biased when I went through an extensive selection process. I heard a lot of systems and was as critical as possible of each.

From a pure subwoofing perspective (since that is the direction this discussion went in):
I auditioned a pair of SVS PB-12/ultra 2's thanks to a buddy of mine. At a local ht installer, I listened to a pair of DD-18's, a pair of ML descents, the Klipsch Ultra system, and a the def tech powered towers. That covered a pretty large range of sub types and prices.

I never took measurements and have no numbers to support my claim, but the JBL system surpassed the others without much effort. If it had not, I would have a pair of DD-18's in my HT right now instead. I listened to the same bass heavy explosive sequences on each system multiple times; nothing really compared to the synthesis.

My syn 2 is in a room that is slightly smaller than 24'x17'x9' (~3600sqft). The syn 2 is rated for rooms of up to 14,000 sqft...so it better sound pretty good in my HT. Like all of you, I am a bass freak. I wanted a piece of the 18' woofers in the s1s-ex subs or in an 1812 (never heard it). My ht installer (a consumate salesman who would have done anything to sell me extra equipment) actually convinced me to leave it be, saying it would be all but impossible to improve bass over the syn 2 in a room my size...he was actually concerned that the depth of the 18" subs would be more audible in neighboring rooms than the ht itself.

The end result is the best ht I have ever heard. There may be more powerful subs out there, but the syn 2 in my room is more than powerful enough to liquify my ear drums if necessary.

 

[bandit]

Sarj

I hadn't seen this thread before either.... seems like subwoofers stir up passion. Looks like a fairly good JBL smashing here... but I still like some of their equipment. I don't have the elaborate system that you do but I do use a JBL 4645c THX sub for my system. It just sounds right to me, although pretty its not. (someday I'm going to design it into the room so its hidden)

Anyay - IMO - if you like what your using it doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks.

 

[Sheep]

AVtalk will be testing one of the JBL THX subs (4546 or something) this year.

I will post results when they are up.

SheepStar

 

[craigsub]

AVtalk will be testing one of the JBL THX subs (4546 or something) this year.

I will post results when they are up.

SheepStar

And who knows, perhaps someday they will actually listen to a subwoofer, too. We can only hope.

 

[Sheep]

And who knows, perhaps someday they will actually listen to a subwoofer, too. We can only hope.

Yeah, and they have to be blind, gagged, and have broken legs, just tobe safe.

I take it you havent seen Uncle Erics system?

SheepStar

 

[craigsub]

Yeah, and they have to be blind, gagged, and have broken legs, just tobe safe.

I take it you havent seen Uncle Erics system?

SheepStar

I like Uncle Eric... He sells some excellent gear. How does that make listening sessions, properly done, invalid or not neccessary?

The thing guys like you better be wary of is this: if all you care about is graphs, speaker and subwoofer companies will respond in kind. They will build to the prettiest graph, and to heck with sound quality.

That is how the market works. Companies deliver what sells.

Eric does, in his own store, sell stuff he considers to sound the best. For example, I have seen many examples of people saying certain ported subwoofers out perform the Velo DD-18, based on the measurements which show the ported sub as playing louder.

I used to buy into that theory, until I blind tested a DD-18 against two of the ported subs, and the DD-18 walked all over the ported subs for clean, articulate bass.

 

[Sheep]

I like Uncle Eric... He sells some excellent gear. How does that make listening sessions, properly done, invalid or not neccessary?

[snip]

Thank you for proving my point. Uncle Eric, a man who takes MANY measurements, cares about the sound.

SheepStar

 

[craigsub]

Thank you for proving my point. Uncle Eric, a man who takes MANY measurements, cares about the sound.

SheepStar

Sheep, "Prove your point?" ... What point ? When did I say Eric did not care about sound ? By the way, Charley takes the measurements, not Eric.

I have never said measurements are not important. I have said measurements without listening tests to go with them are worthless, and they are.

All you can tell about graphs is how loud the speaker is playing. That is it. A frequency response curve merely shows how loud the speaker is playing at any frequency. A max output graph shows the max a speaker will play at each frequency.

Unless you listen, nothing is established about the full performance.

But far too many guys post a graph, with statements like "Look at the Acme subwoofer, it played 100 dB @ 20 Hz." The problem with that is this: how does it sound at 40 Hz ? If we don't know that, all the graphs in the world mean nothing.

And Sheep, If you walked into Uncle Eric's store, do you think he would show you graphs ? Or do you think he would have you listen ?

 

[Sheep]

You know, I'm not going to reply, its too easy.

I'm leaving it at this. Stop trolling around.

SheepStar

 

[craigsub]

Sheep - "Trolling" ? You said Eric takes MANY measurements, and he doesn't. He is kind enough to lend equipment to the test, and has shown himself to be a pretty classy guy. But, factually speaking, he does not take the measurements. Yet that was the crux of how your "point" was proven.

If you cannot discuss without resorting to calling people "troll", perhaps you need to step back for a while.

 

[Sheep]

And who knows, perhaps someday they will actually listen to a subwoofer, too. We can only hope.

Here you say they DON'T listen to subwoofers.

Eric does, in his own store, sell stuff he considers to sound the best. For example, I have seen many examples of people saying certain ported subwoofers out perform the Velo DD-18, based on the measurements which show the ported sub as playing louder.

And here is your contradiction.

Again, to easy. Then the fact that you said FR graphs are the only measurements.

Easy.

I think we all know who needs to step back for awhile.

SheepStar